To the people who don't pirate: Is life really so bad?

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Blair Bennett

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Jan 25, 2008
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If you steal electricity the power company lose that amount, if you copy their electricity on the other hand...
Credit card numbers? You would still be losing your actual money.
Patents? when people break a patent, they do so to manufacture and sell a product that is identical, or near identical to the original product. Personally I think many patents last too long.
I-I'm sorry. But this is just idiotic. Are you actually trying to justify theft with the notion that theft is only so when someone else loses a possession? Simply claiming that the product holder in question does not lose anything is cowardly, unintelligent, and inaccurate. Yes, maybe "copying" a product is not the same as physically relieving someone of it, however, pirating suggests the use of digital technology. When using said technology, there is no physical thing to be stolen, nor is it needed. Downloading a game/song/film over the internet and stuffing one down your shirt at the local mall is the same crime, and, though digitally, the game is not lost to the original owner, they do lose something: money. If you were to spend years on something that you truly wanted to see thrive and succeed in the eyes of the public, would you be indifferent to people downloading it over the internet instead of paying for the experience? Would you smile and claim that you hadn't lost anything, because no one had wanted to actually pay for your product in the first place? I don't know you, you may be a saint, you may be retarded, but I find this highly doubtful.

If people did not abide by patents, society and technology would not progress. Instead of attempting to design and build a superior thing, we would only be inventing the same things over again. And as for the credit card number thing? Well, I'm not going to lie: I don't think you actually understand how credit cards work. It's common knowledge that, when you are given a credit card, you are also given a number. This number is to be kept confidential, so as to keep your funds relatively safe. If someone were to discover this number, they could then essentially reach into your bank account, and deprive you of said funds. No number is the same, and if you use a different number than the one given to you, IT ACCESSES A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT (this is vital). Whatever machine is reading your credit card only does so to make sure that the card belongs to whatever company the card is for, and to read the serial number on the card. Now, this may seem like this validates your point, however, the card itself is an arguably easier item to steal. Now that we've cleared this up, I certainly hope that you've learned to think before you post. Interestingly enough, this is one of the advantages of typing. God knows I wouldn't want to have a verbal conversation with you.
 

atv_chic_18

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Feb 15, 2009
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Erana said:
All this talk about pirating has led me to ask, "Is life so bad that people really need to pirate?"
I don't pirate, and if there's a game, or some music, or something of the sort that I want but don't have, I deal. I just don't quite see how its easier to live with knowing that you've stolen a game than to just go without.
Now, to my fellow non-pirates, is your life really that miserable because you have to go without, or paid for what you have?
(And if this has been done, please tell me. I searched, but my inner thesauraus isn't functioning so well right now.)
Good question.

I don't pirate it either. I believe that the people that create the music and movies and even games work hard to do so. The least we can do is buy it vs ripping it for a few minutes or however long it takes you to pirate it. If you love something so much buy it. Also it's smart. You avoid lawsuits and possible jail time. ;) Most of us don't want to spend time behind bars for something that silly.
 

Nomad

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Aug 3, 2008
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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
DRM was never meant to stop piracy. It's a cover. What the publishers are actually targeting with DRM is the second-hand market. Seriously, they've been moaning about second-hand sales for years. I think I even read somewhere that Epic has a 'no second-hand games' policy amongst its developers. With DRM, you can't re-sell. Everybody has to buy brand new. Now obviously it would be hugely unethical for a company to include software that forbids its customers from reselling. So hey presto, they just claim it's to combat piracy, and it's Securom a-go-go.
Yeah, anyone with basic understanding of the concept realizes they can't be serious with saying it's an anti-pirate manouver. Still, I consider DRM detrimental to their own prosperity. One, it causes piracy to increase (pirates don't have to deal with the limited installations, and therefore piracy becomes more alluring), and two, it means their game is dead once they've stopped selling new copies. Meaning less 'free' advertising for their company. Take Human Head Studios as an example. They released a game called Rune in 2000, that still gets new players through second-hand sales (pretty much the only way you can get it nowadays), and when Prey was released, like half of the active community bought it just because it was made by Human Head.

Blair Bennett said:
I-I'm sorry. But this is just idiotic. [...] though digitally, the game is not lost to the original owner, they do lose something: money.
Please refrain from outright insults, it really doesn't help the discussion.

And, as pointed out several times by a bunch of different people (including me), they do NOT lose money by us pirating their software. Because the only money they could lose is OUR money, and we never gave it to them in the first place, meaning it wasn't theirs to lose. Just because I download something, it doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay money for it if I couldn't download it. In most cases, I wouldn't. So no, they're not losing money by my downloading. Because I never gave them my money to begin with.

Oh, and, I'm still waiting for all you guys to give me back my cars. Because just like the record and software companies assume I was going to give them my money, I'm assuming you were going to give me your cars. So because you now keep your cars, I'm calling it theft. Just like they're calling me a thief because I choose to keep my money, that was never theirs.

Now give me back my cars, damnit, right this instant!
 

Malkavian

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Jan 22, 2009
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C Lion said:
REMEMBER:
The only thing that would keep me from that, is that I'd still have to pay annual taxes for having the damn thing...

I'm dead serious. I dislike illegal download of music, but a car? Totally.
 

Meet_Your_Doom

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Jul 31, 2008
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Pirating is stealing, so I would never pirate anything. The developer has spent money to produce the game or CD or whatever, and they need the consumers money to compensate, so by pirating the "product" I'm forcing them to lose something for my own gain, which is stealing. If I buy a game and I don't like it, I take it back and don't keep complaining about the £6 I lost. I cannot afford everything I want, maybe a third of of it, but I'd rather have a clear conscience than every game in the world (how cheesy was that! Sorry, but it's true) and anyone who doesn't care about having stolen from some-one else deserves to have it all taken off them
 

Blair Bennett

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Jan 25, 2008
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Am I going to have to give another of my "If you believe that then how can you defend the library system" speeches? The double standard is shocking.
True, but in a way, libraries are arguably different. I'm not saying that I support piracy whole-heartedly, you're right, but I'm also not saying I'm anti-piracy. My post was simply for the use of clearing up a few things that should have been common sense. "The Library System", as you put it, is similar, however, the property in this instance is being returned, and I know this does not seem like a valid argument due to the fact that this can easily be replicated with digital software, but perhaps that's why people view libraries as a different beast. I'm not saying that anti-piracy precautions put in place by anti-piracy...people, really, makes sense, however, I can understand why they're there. I was making it clear that piracy is theft. I'm sick of watching people sit high and mighty, claiming that because they did not physically relieve someone of something, they are not guilty, but I never said that I supported either side of the debate.

P.S. Does it help if I DON'T defend the library system?
 

Wyatt

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Feb 14, 2008
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i just had kinda a neat idea, why not get everyone who wants a video game, TV show, movie etc together, and hold a fund raiser, pool all our cash and when we reach the asking price of a given chunk of media than it can be put 'out there' free for everyone from then on.

like this, say the next big movie Warner Brothers makes, they want 100 million for it, ok everyone in the world whos interestd can contribute what ever thy want too to this community pot, when we collect 100 million we buy the movie and just put it out there on the web for anyone to access.

lets everyone get in touch with our governments and have them establish a new branch of governmet to deal with this, instead of collecting taxes they can just collect the 'contributions' of media junkys and when the asking price is met for the media the government takes it over and provides it for free from then on since 'we the people' will then OWN the media with a free and clear title forever. the company gets paid, piracy becomes meaningless and problem solved for everyone.

corse there is still the small niggling problem of the companys not being able to continue to milk every last fucking little cent they can get out of anything they even glance at but its better that than having their shit flat out stolen and have to listen to these truly ..... assnine reasons why stealing something isnt actualy stealing.

Anton P. Nym said:
So don't mind me if you find me crashed on your couch one day... after all, you said you're okay with that. (And if I find the door locked, well, that's just to keep out other people less skilled with metal and plastic.) Besides, I wasn't going to pay you rent anyway so it's a victimless crime.

-- Steve
loved that, clear and too the point, and id give you $5 to watch you break into this guys house and actualy camp out on his couch.

ohh wate, on second thought no i wont, you OWE it too us to tape your break in and put it on the web for free, after all just because you thought of it, and were actualy the one who DID it, that doesnt mean nothing.

im entitled to something from you for free. thats the theory isnt it? and when your done with his couch come on over to my house and do my dishes and shovel my walkway, then grab the mail for me and you can go.
 

Anton P. Nym

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Sep 18, 2007
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BladePHF said:
Anton P. Nym said:
False. Copyright only applies to the creation of copies. If you dupe the DVD/CD and pass the dupes around, then you're breaking the copyright law.

You can show a movie to a friend, or even lend him the DVD, without breaking any laws or EULAs. Now, if you decide to pop the DVD into a jumbo-projector and show it to a paying audience you'll run into trouble... but not loaning out the disk to a friend.

(Hey, you can even sell the disk to someone else... so long as you're not keeping a ripped copy of it for yourself. It's called "right of first sale".)
Huh, odd, then why do all the DVDs and game cases I own have written in tiny print at the bottom of the back: "...blah blah... you cannot ...blah blah... rental, LENDING, [..]"?

Define "Lending", given the fact "renting" (what may be ostentatiously viewed as "lending for money") is already mentioned alongside.

And, to use your own style, the whole "right of first sale" is false. What more can we see in the fine-print at the back? [...], re-sale,[...]. Do ho ho ho, correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am, but doesn't what you said constitute re-sale?
The exact wording, from the back of my copy of Children of Men:
Scary legal text said:
WARNING: For private use only. Federal law provides severe civil and criminal penalties for the unauthorized reproduction, distribution or exhibition of copyrighted motion pictures and video formats.
Reproduction is, of course, making copies. You are authorised by federal statutes to make up to one (1) copy for archival purposes. If you make more copies, or give your one copy away while keeping the original (or give the original and keep the copy) that's a no-no.

Distribution, for the purposes of copyright, would be converting the content into another format (say, streaming mpeg) and posting it up on a web server. It's not handing your only copy to someone else, or trading it in at the used DVD store.

Exhibition, for the purposes of copyright, would be showing it in a public hall, or showing it in private and charging admission. Watching it with friends is fine, even if they pay for the popcorn and pizza.

The More You Know...

-- Steve
 

Symp4thy

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Jan 7, 2009
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I pose a question to those who are defending piracy: If it isn't stealing and the companies aren't losing money, than why is it illegal?
 

Anton P. Nym

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Anton P. Nym said:
So don't mind me if you find me crashed on your couch one day... after all, you said you're okay with that. (And if I find the door locked, well, that's just to keep out other people less skilled with metal and plastic.) Besides, I wasn't going to pay you rent anyway so it's a victimless crime.
Bad analogy--that's more like breaking into the publisher's offices, firing up on of their computers, and playing the game in their offices.
My analogy was intended to break the concept that "no direct monetary damage means no crime". Nothing beyond that... of course it's not perfect.

(By the by, seeing something you've made being pirated feels exactly like that creepy sense of vulnerability and outrage at getting screwed over you get after you've had a break-in. Well, it did for me, anyway.)

-- Steve
 

runtheplacered

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Oct 31, 2007
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Symp4thy said:
I pose a question to those who are defending piracy: If it isn't stealing and the companies aren't losing money, than why is it illegal?
Are you trying to pretend that ethics and laws are synonymous with each other? Come on now.

I also don't think anybody is claiming that companies don't lose some money, but exactly how much money is up for debate.
 

z121231211

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Jun 24, 2008
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I didn't read the pages so this might have been mentioned before.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/30/world-of-goo-publisher-files-for-bankruptcy/

The article is about a company that filed for bankruptcy due to a very large amount of piracy of their games.
 

runtheplacered

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Oct 31, 2007
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Erana said:
All this talk about pirating has led me to ask, "Is life so bad that people really need to pirate?"
I don't pirate, and if there's a game, or some music, or something of the sort that I want but don't have, I deal. I just don't quite see how its easier to live with knowing that you've stolen a game than to just go without.
Now, to my fellow non-pirates, is your life really that miserable because you have to go without, or paid for what you have?
(And if this has been done, please tell me. I searched, but my inner thesauraus isn't functioning so well right now.)
I did not know until I read the OP that people pirate things because their life is bad. That's news to me. Doesn't even really seem logical when you think about it. Weird.
/sarcasm off
 

Thirtysomething

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Aug 29, 2008
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If I pirate I get it free. If I don't I have to pay for it. Simple as that really... kind of a no-brainer

Whether I do so or not doesn't have any bearing on whether lifes good or not.
 

Aschenkatza

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Jan 14, 2009
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I would totally pirate.. but then I know right as I click that pirate button some Cop is gonna pop in viz my widow and be like, "YOU ARE PIRATE, I ARREST YOU, BROUHAHA!!!"
I'm scared D=

I agree with other people in the fact that I don't wanna buy a game that is gonna suck. I rarely buy games, if at all, and if I waste the 20-50 bucks buying the thing I could have gotten for free... I'm gonna be more likely to get games for 'free' rather than using my money while in this recession.