Tolkien, Overrated?

[archaicmalevolence]

It all depends on personal taste as some of the fantasy features Tolkien used could be linked to more present day things for his and our time and less imagination but knowledge. His books always (except for the Hobbit) seemed more like poetry in some bits, but just my opinion.

 

[Fumbleumble]

It's more than just elves, orcs, and dwarves. It's an entire world built around dualities and Antithesis. Good, evil. Fate, Free Will. Death and Immortality and many more. And the way he does it is near poetry.

You are actually quite wrong.

All of what you have mentioned is allegory and Tolkien stated a number of times that he abhored allegory.. it was, in his words, quite simply a good story, anything else is purely in the mind of the reader and unintentional.

 

[GrimTuesday]

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

I've been told it's good but I've also heard that it's a little... predictable. Rand uses balefire... and goes and eats his lunch.

 

[NeutralDrow]

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

Odd. I'm the total opposite. That's exactly what draws me into it.

I'm an intensely visual person. The more I know about the sensory aspects of a scene, the more totally real it feels to me.

I'm a visual person as well but I like to be able to put my imagination to work. I like having some brief description, George RR Martin's work is a perfect example of this. With Tolkien it's like he draws you a picture and say this is it, You really can't have much of a different mental picture of the people and places of his world.

I guess that's the difference, then. I want the author's picture. I can fill in the details myself if I absolutely have to, but it'll usually be half filled-in and unfocused. It's their story, after all.

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

Ever try reading the Silmarillion? Took me three tries to get through the book. I kept getting hopelessly lost around the second section (just after the creation of the dwarves and the ents).

I don't know if I'd call the Wheel of Time the best series ever, but mainly because I don't like calling anything the "best ever." Love the series, myself, and I can't wait for A Memory of Light to come out March 2012.

 

[NeutralDrow]

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

I've been told it's good but I've also heard that it's a little... predictable. Rand uses balefire... and goes and eats his lunch.

...bluh? Who the hell gave you that description? I mean, I've heard people complain that plots take books and books to come to fruition, or that the male/female dichotomy is milked for a stupid amount of drama, but predictability? I honestly don't think I've heard that beyond "Rand is the dragon reborn," which is in the first freakin' book.

Come to think of it, when does Rand use balefire?

Let's see...Shadow Rising, minor point...Fires of Heaven, major...Crown of Swords, secretly major...Gathering Storm, deceptively minor...

Okay, unless I'm forgetting something, he actually barely uses it. Even if it's a generic "Rand blows shit up" complaint, that's just a common book ending scenario (and not always him).

 

[capnpupster]

I actually don't like anything he wrote, but I still appreciate how he virtually created a genre. It's kind of like Jules Verne, his ideas were fun and inventive, but the writing is crap. I read Journey to the Center of the Earth and it was like reading a textbook filled with made up science. I guess that kind of stuff is good, but if you're writing a book you should be good with words, the same way you should be good with a brush if you're painting.

 

[Fightgarr]

Tolkien created an epic, he didn't create some R.A. Salvatore piece of pulp fiction. He draws things out because he was more about world building than keeping the flow of activity steady. He was a poet, and so poetry and song were a big part of his writing. Middle Earth was a world he created, The Lord of the Rings just happened to be one of the stories in it. Middle-Earth was my introduction into fantasy literature so it will always hold a place in my heart. It's certain the best I've read, but it's certainly the most important piece of fantasy literature I've ever read.

You want a terrible author who draws everything out: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. Not my thing, thought it was fucking terrible.

 

[s0m3th1ng]

It's more than just elves, orcs, and dwarves. It's an entire world built around dualities and Antithesis. Good, evil. Fate, Free Will. Death and Immortality and many more. And the way he does it is near poetry.

You are actually quite wrong.

All of what you have mentioned is allegory and Tolkien stated a number of times that he abhored allegory.. it was, in his words, quite simply a good story, anything else is purely in the mind of the reader and unintentional.

I'm aware of this, does not mean it's any less true.

 

[DMonkey]

Gotta say for Tolkien what I have always said about Star Wars, Lovecraft, and many many other things.

Good, influential, worthy of praise, but goddamn it fans, tone it down a little.

Personally, could never get through his books myself. Its like reading cement. Like Crichton's Jurassic Park. Good story, but done in such a boring manner. Like reading a text book. Every time I try to pick them up, I get a few pages into them, and feel as though there will be a test at the end of it.

 

[Death God]

I'm not one who loves Tolkien but she's just as popular as Rowling. It's all about preferences.

 

[Riptide1]

Tolkien was a great writer and I in no way believe him to be over rated, that being said I cant force myself to read his books. I'v been a fantasy lover for years, ever since i started reading The Secrets of Droon books back in 3rd grade, it is the only genera i read, but i just can not get immersed in his books. I did read The Hobit which i thought was great, the only problem being that he intended that for small children, but when i moved on to The Fellowship of the Ring i barely made it through and halfway through The Two Towers i gave up. The world he creates is amazing and the story and caricatures are fantastic, he just has to much description for me to get into whats happening. I could truly care less how many blades of grass there are in a field much less what each one looks like, everything amazing gets bogged down by details and that defeats the point of fantasy, it may be his fantasy but as the reader to truly get into it i need to have a part in creating the world, that is why books are always better than movies because of that fact that the reader creates the details how best they see it. Tolkien makes sure that everything you think of is the exactly way that he thought it looked, which it is his imagination, but at the same time it really strips away any chance, for me at least, to really get into the books.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

He kind of INVENTED modern fantasy. As for the actual quality of the book? I.......... I haven't actually read them.......

 

[GrimTuesday]

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

I've been told it's good but I've also heard that it's a little... predictable. Rand uses balefire... and goes and eats his lunch.

...bluh? Who the hell gave you that description? I mean, I've heard people complain that plots take books and books to come to fruition, or that the male/female dichotomy is milked for a stupid amount of drama, but predictability? I honestly don't think I've heard that beyond "Rand is the dragon reborn," which is in the first freakin' book.

Come to think of it, when does Rand use balefire?

Let's see...Shadow Rising, minor point...Fires of Heaven, major...Crown of Swords, secretly major...Gathering Storm, deceptively minor...

Like I said, I haven't actually read it so all I have to go by is what I have been told.

I have the first book and I have been meaning to read it, I just have a bunch of stuff to finish first (American Gods, Before They are Hanged, and A Clash of Kings (for the third time)).

 

[Kiju]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

Yes...YES! Finally, someone else gets it.

I've found the same problem in a Tolkien book; after reading into the first Lord Of The Rings on a recommendation due to it being a fantasy novel, I think I quit after the first three hours, because I was so fed up with his lengthy descriptions. It's almost like...how someone can enjoy talking just to hear themselves talk? That's what it felt like; he liked to see himself type out big words, almost like "Look what I can do! "

Ok, so it's probably not like that, but hey, it's how I felt at the time. Personally...I find some of the best written books I've read so far have been by Mercedes Lackey, and Kelly Armstrong. Both of them are wonderful authors, and I just devour their books, they're a joy to read. If you like fantasy at all, I'd highly recommend picking up one of their books; unless you don't like dry humor, then avoid Kelly Armstrong's series.

 

[Ranquest]

The thing about Tolkien's books is that alot of them are written like a historical record (what with Tolkien have been a History professor)rather that a narrative. This makes parts of his books a real struggle for some people (myself included) to get through.

 

[RedDeadFred]

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

I liked them for a while but I just felt like nothing was ever getting done. Too many characters with their own stories going on IMO. I liked the first book a lot but i just got bored after book 6 and stopped reading them altogether after book 9.

The Hobbit/LOTR are great although Tolkien can get over descriptive in LOTR.

I don't really care for his other works. Silmarillion felt really disjointed.

Edit: Even though he spends a lot of time describing scenery I absolutely love every bit of the series. I've read the whole thing (including the Hobbit) 4 times.

 

[Pifflestick]

Tolkien's works are okay. Just, okay. Not the best thing ever as a lot of people seem to think but worth a read if you have the time. Dragonlance Chronicles was better IMHO.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I'm not one who loves Tolkien but she's just as popular as Rowling. It's all about preferences.

Please tell me you are trolling and you don't actually think Tolkien is a woman.

 

[hamstersar]

I feel like at times it's a bit over descriptive which detracts from the flow of the books, but for the most part I love what he's written.