Tomb Raider: dear god...."the rape scene"...

[Vault101]

On a side note, [user]Vault101[/user] should totally get a column spot here at the Escapist. I find myself looking for these threads if its not on the main page list.

if you interested in reading some more of my [strike/]ego masturbation[/S] ramblings then I did blog for a bit when I was really bored...I think the links still on my profile

 

[norashepard]

So far in my playing of it, I was extremely bothered by the scene in question, but other than that I found a lot less pandering than I expected. It is a little bit harsh on Lara, but it hasn't crossed into kink territory... yet. Of course any arguments that all the danger and hurt are "realism" fall short when her eyeliner is seemingly perfect throughout the game. It's like she sold her soul to Satan for the perfect look.

So far it's still a good game though.

 

[Voulan]

I am just dropping this here:

Its not Laura croft. Its Lara. LARA. Why the fuck is it so hard for some people to spell?

Or maybe I am just retarded. I dont know anything about Tomb Raider anyway, but I am pretty sure the name of someone dosnt changes with time? xd

THANK YOU. The amount of posts I've dedicated here just to point this out to people, it's just ridiculous. Laura and Lara aren't even pronounced similarly.

So I am REALLY retarded or I just cant seem to find any of your posts in this thread

Oh well. Cool I guess.

EDIT: Or maybe you didnt meant this one thread, maybe it was in other thread XD

Yep, I meant in almost every other thread but this one, you beat me to it this time. It's honestly my biggest pet peeve. I think it's due to the American pronounciation that so many people get it wrong. Lara's British, for crying out loud!

 

[havoc33]

So....you're telling me that so far we've had none of the giant outcries in the last 6 months of misogynistic games actually pan out.

can you re-explain that? what do you mean?

What I mean is that we've had all these outcries over trailers, developer interviews, etc where a hint of sexism was presented in a yet unreleased game. And people were absolutely losing their shit in each instance, and none of the stuff that people flipped out over was actually that bad. I mean the amount of omfg how dare this male use rape as a plot device he should lose his job, the game should sink, he's a misogynistic bastard! And it turned out to really be nothing of concern.
I don't know I think I'm just a little irked at the gaming community and how over reactionary. We get all these articles from different groups condemning video games when this kind of stuff hits the general public, but we never get the articles that are like "hey, we overreacted, it didn't end up being bad."

This is actually what I am beginning to get tired of. The gaming community is starting to feel like the target audience of Fox News or the Daily Mail. Where we are saturated full of stories and headlines of these most "terrible controversies" which almost always turn out to be borderline fabricated, or extremely over the top. Then people rage over them and make these things issues.

Apart from being irritating, they also take attention away from real issues that occur. I mean, on this website I hear about how Lara's non-existent rape scene is a sign that game developers have a problem with misogyny and sexism, yet have not seen anything mentioning the recent news that some British police have been encouraging victims of rape not to report it so the statistics look better. Or the fact that Amazon was selling 'Keep Calm' shirts that said things such as "Keep calm and rape a lot" until recently.

It's why I get so tired of discussions of sexism in gaming more than anything. When a fictional character having larger than average breasts is somebodies idea of a huge problem regarding sexism, I think they need to get a better sense of perspective.

Or to use another example. Remember the #1ReasonWhy campaign?. I wonder how many do. That discussed real controversies and real problems with sexism in the gaming industry, but people forget about that because it's much more fun to complain because some female characters are designed to titillate, rather than have a more important role.

It really is a bit embarassing to be associated with the gaming community these days. I mean, whenever main stream media is reporting anything from the game world, it seems to be about OUTRAGED fans who are upset with this or that. I had to laugh when I read the newspaper yesterday, and I could see them reporting the botched Sim City release, and how fans were going crazy. It seems no other form of entertainment has such rabid and hysterical fans as videogames does.

As far as videogames have come, and how it has finally been sort of accepted in the mainstream media, it is ultimately the constant whining and non-rational behaviour from our own community that holds us back. People are constantly stirring the pot, and what people need to realise is that they need to tone down this behaviour, if only to save the hobby they are all so in love with. Fact of the matter is that publishers/developers are increasingly looking at AAA gaming as risky projects, and then it does not help that you have a rabid fan base that will give you a very hard time if you do not make the game exactly as they want it. Countless studios have expressed frustration with this already, and I cannot blame them for going into social/casual gaming because of it. The return on investment will be far greater, and they don't have to put up with half the shit that comes out of the hardcore gaming community. Gaming as we know it is changing, and we as fans are not helping in a positive way at all.

 

[Fasckira]

On a side note, [user]Vault101[/user] should totally get a column spot here at the Escapist. I find myself looking for these threads if its not on the main page list.

if you interested in reading some more of my [strike/]ego masturbation[/S] ramblings then I did blog for a bit when I was really bored...I think the links still on my profile

Pffft..... a click away? To Destructoid no less?



Meh, I'll check it out properly later.

 

[Thanatos5150]

- People didn't even really take issue with the trailer, but rather with the crap that the dev was talking about needing to "protect" Lara because she's a girl.

Call me stupid, but I don't recall Lara's gender being mentioned in the entire Dev statement.
Other than, of course, using feminine pronouns.
I remember statements like "We want the player to feel for Lara's plight" and "We want people to want to protect her."

Personally, I always saw the threat of potential rape as a very realistic danger given the situation Lara was in, and only ever saw it as "Bad people who are heterosexual men and around women are still bad people and will probably get their rape and/or murder on." the repeated arguments that the scene was sexist and promoting violence against women is ridiculous.
Hell, we see Lara turn around and knee the jackass in the groin in that very trailer. If anything, the trailer was sexist against *men*, because, y'know, man getting kneed in the balls for being a violent, slobbering pervert (Not that I don't think the knee-to-crotch action was entirely justified, because I believe it is).

I fail to see how it's presenting any image other than a strong character who is adapting to and overcoming all the dangers presented to her. The controversy sparked over it was no more than the depressing humdrum of "There is a girl character in this game! Somebody is obviously making a sexist/anti-feminine gender statement here! Let's complain about it!"
No. Just because there is a woman doesn't mean there is some feminist/anti-feminist agenda in the game. In case you haven't noticed, a significant proportion of the human population has two X chromosomes. The Gaming Community increasingly resembles a slowly-maturing boneheaded teenager who is just noticing this, and yet simultaneously expects everything that happens to a woman to be a a commentary on women.

No. It's not. Nothing special. Just a female. Carry on and stop pitching a fit every time you see one, okay?

 

[Sexy Devil]

The rape quotes put the debacle into high gear and, more importantly, pushed it out into the non-gaming media, but there were some gamers (myself included) who disliked the tone of the trailer well before the story blew up. Personally I didn't even like the first trailer, a year earlier at E3 2011, which didn't have That Scene but did have an awful lot of Lara-tied-up, Lara-in-pain, Lara-moaning-and-whimpering-non-fucking-stop.

As for the retraction, people didn't pay any attention to it because it was a pitifully transparent attempt by CD to cover their own asses when they realised what a shit storm they'd walked into, because there's simply no way that a producer of the game goes out and talks about an "attempted rape scene" unless that was, at the time, exactly what they intended it to be.

The problem is that the title "executive producer" is ambiguous as hell in video games. He could very well have barely been involved in the actual development, and was more dealing with the publishers. It's entirely possible that they showed him the scene and what he got out of it was "attempted rape" from the sensual... touching. It's not like developers are really in the habit of showing death animations. Though this is just from a momentary glance at the Wikipedia page for producers, so I may be full of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_producer

And as for the first paragraph... anyone else think she sounds like a porn star when she screams/moans? I can't stop noticing it.

 

[GrimHeaper]

The death scenes are more worrying than anything.

 

[ProtoChimp]

Thing is, the controversy was never really about the scene itself. It's about the way that dev described it. You kind of got the feeling he was typing with one hand, if you take my meaning.

Wait what? Did he seem pervy during an article? All I remember is protecting Lara.

 

[aguspal]

The death scenes are more worrying than anything.

What is with them?


I havent played the game but I assume they are hilarious lol xD

EDIT: nevermind I just saw than there is a video... for some reason it didnt show up before.


Not gonna whatch it thougt, spoilers, I must avoid spoilers.

 

[Thanatos5150]

No. It's not. Nothing special. Just a female. Carry on and stop pitching a fit every time you see one, okay?

Did I say that I personally had issues with it? I wasn't even aware of the controversy at the time and by the time I caught up with it the moment had more or less passed. I read up on it enough to know what people were actually criticising, though, instead of just skimming through and then constructing Strawman Village.

Though it's interesting that people can't make any kind of criticism of anything gaming-related without being accused of being hysterical, pitching a fit, foaming at the mouth etc. Generally the only people I ever see actually being hysterical are the "OMFG I AM SO OFFENDED BY THE FACT THAT SOMEONE ELSE GOT OFFENDED BY SOMETHINGGGG!!11!" crowd.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, everything after the first paragraph was meant as a general statement.

 

[VanQ]

So , all the whining and moaning and complaining and shit slinging was for nothing? Well that sounds exacly like the gaming community and i'm honestly not surprised . The gaming community ( not the escapist , the comunity in general )is a bunch of imature whiny little brats . That make a fuss over everything .

I personally wouldn't mind if she got raped . People get rapped in book , music , poems, movies , real life , why shouldn't they in games ? It's an unfortunate part of real life, and people have to deal with it . And not pretend it isn't there . Because even if you pretend , it's still there .

/sarcasm mode/Hey I'm not a whiny immature brat and I take offense to you saying that good sir I just want games that I paid for and not chopped off portions of it/end sarcasm/.Anyway doing rape scenes in games can be a delicate matter because unlike movies or books you literally have to interact with the rapist and I feel if the player character was a rapist and you have to control him raping someone that will offend a lot of people many of them rape victims themselves.So I think rape in games has to be done right in the context of the story or not done at all.

Whoever said you have to be the one controlling the rapist? Wouldn't it be an interesting and original experience to be on the receiving end of such an act in a game? I'm not saying it would be a good experience, mind you. That would defeat the purpose, but what if you controlled a character, male or female, and no matter how much you struggle or resist you end up a victim anyway.

Kinda like the real thing. Sounds pretty bloody awful and traumatizing to me. Get where I'm going with this?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Thing is, the controversy was never really about the scene itself. It's about the way that dev described it. You kind of got the feeling he was typing with one hand, if you take my meaning.

Wait what? Did he seem pervy during an article? All I remember is protecting Lara.

Yeah. The interview read like he was describing rape-fantasy porn. It was pretty darned creepy.

 

[cikame]

I remember when James Bond was touched inappropriately in Skyfall, no one is safe.

 

[Longstreet]

Am I the only one who's like: what rape scene? The dude touched her a bit and got his ass kicked by her right after.

Same here.

Just finished the game and remembered seeing this thread, decided to come back to it to see if i missed like half the story or something.

other than that there is no rape scene because

Spoiler

When he puts his hands around you for the second time (Right after he smacks you with his gun and tells you not to move) and you dont press the melee button he immediately chokes you to death.

 

[CloudAtlas]

But I have HUGE problems with the way this game seems to execute those ideas.

Let's start with Lara's new look. Now I will admit that the previous character design (i.e.: Mega-boobage) caught my attention when I first saw it, but I was very quickly able to look past it to what the character herself is supposed to be. Since then, I've come to look at it the same way as Solid Snake's mullet or Alex Mercer's hoodie, it's just there. Then came the release to show off Lara's new "realistic" look. Now if you're going to choose to do that, then just do it. If you're going to answer the inevitable questions that people will have about the change and why you did it, that's also fine. What you don't do is promote that on the forefront of your advertising among things that you're going to "right the wrongs" the previous games did. And then have media outlets already trumpet this as a godsend despite the fact that it doesn't have any impact on the game itself. All it succeeds in doing is alienating myself as a previous fan by making me look like the only reason I'm a fan is because of the T&A factor, and I don't appreciate that.

But the realistic, non-sexualized portrayal of Lara Croft in this game does matter a great deal. The game is so much better for that.
Subjecting Lara to this amount of physical punishment while sexualizing her at the same time would have been deeply problematic.

And, maybe not for you, but for many other gamers who didn't like the objectifying portrayal of Lara Croft in the previous games, this game does indeed "right the wrongs". Compared to its predecessors, and what you usually find in other games, this mature portrayal of its female heroine IS remarkable, and they have every right to advertise it.


And regarding all the stuff you say about Lara's character? well, Vault101 pretty much said it already. If you don't like her, that's your right, of course, but from what I can tell, most others do. Didn't read a single review that says otherwise, for instance.

The previous Lara was a caricature. This Lara is human. And I don't think the developers intend to ever bring her new character back in line with what was in previous games. I sure hope they won't.