I did not know of this new Unreal Tournament...and that it looks marvellous! Variety in a fantastical setting should be agiven, the only limitations are your own imagination, especially if there are map creation tools. Let the colour palette explore many moods. Even if they aren't "badass." Will have to look further into this upcoming UT...
There seems to be a stigma against bright colours in games these days, especially if they're not intended to be comedies or kid-friendly. But looking at the new UT that seems to be an unwarranted stigma, because those environments don't look "cartoony" or "childish", they look great! They really pop.
Similarly look at this System Shock 1 remake that's apparently in development:
You can do cool things with colour, and the PS1 version of Doom took advantage of this by having coloured lighting.
MORE SCREENSHOTS
Look at how moody those maps are with the use of colour. Doom 4 looks like a perfectly fun game but every screenshot I've seen of it so far just looks like Doom 3 but slightly brighter.
Fox12 said:
5. Quake
4. Wolfenstein
3. Half Life
2. Duke Nukem 3d
1. Doom 1&2
Honerable mention: Every single shooter from the 90s and early 2000's, especially Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.
Oh look a "come at me bro" thread. These are always fun.
For me I really don't get the appeal of Destiny but then I don't like MMOs generally. Maybe Fallout 4 as well since it was so polarising and respite loving it, I wasn't that keen on the game's priorities. The Witness didn't grab me the way it seemed to for others, it's a league below similar first person puzzle games like "Portal" or "The Talos Principle".
While I'm keen to play Doom when I get the chances (and I'll likely enjoy it tons), I get the impression that Doom 3 and Doom 4 both misunderstood what people liked about Doom/Doom II so much.
Those two games were colourful, they contrasted the darkness with bright areas. The techbase designs were based more on Alien and Star Wars than the Alien sequels and the gothic-industrial style of stuff like Event Horizon. Sure they still had spooky tech-labyrinths but they weren't excessively dark and grim.
You know what game has the level design aesthetics a modern Doom needs? The new Unreal Tournament.
Replay the first 9 maps of Doom, what do you notice? Outdoor areas are bright and they are numerous. They contrast with the dark corridors and claustrophobia of inside areas. Doom 4 seems to have taken too make level design cues from Doom 3, and I have seen very few outdoor environments that break up the monotony. Does SnapMap even ALLOW outdoor environments?
Honestly I wish the developers of Doom 4 researched what kind of maps the community has been making 20 years on, instead of using Doom 3's interpretation of Doom's Romero maps and taking inspiration from obnoxious gameplay mods like Brutal Doom.
I did not know of this new Unreal Tournament...and that it looks marvellous! Variety in a fantastical setting should be agiven, the only limitations are your own imagination, especially if there are map creation tools. Let the colour palette explore many moods. Even if they aren't "badass." Will have to look further into this upcoming UT...
I played exactly one match of the new Unreal Tournament, and I have to say... it's fucking fantastic. It looks great, the controls and feel of the game are simple and great, and the gameplay and weapons are straight forward, so unlike Overwatch, which requires a minimum investment level to understand what the hell is going on, you can just jump right in and get on with it.
I remember when you praise first 2 witcher games as one of the best example of modern RPG long ago on GT during last generation. how times have changed. I quite liked witcher 2 but 3 just too boring imo.
The Wrpg took a huge hit last generation. The supposed best examples of the genre (mass effect, fallout, dragon age) were poor examples of why the genre is so good. The Witcher was on the border, and yes, it was one of the best. What "the best" of last gen Wrpgs means though is up to you.
With some of the recent indie games though, things have changed a little. The Witcher 3 apparently has the budget, but creates a boring game with it, one that actually had better and deeper mechanics and a better flow back with the first game.
Jrpgs have dropped in popularity, but have held their guns and continue to pump out amazing games for their decreasing niche. Wrpgs however hit the mainstream bug and have suffered since. The Witcher 3 Is one of them.
I remember when you praise first 2 witcher games as one of the best example of modern RPG long ago on GT during last generation. how times have changed. I quite liked witcher 2 but 3 just too boring imo.
The Wrpg took a huge hit last generation. The supposed best examples of the genre (mass effect, fallout, dragon age) were poor examples of why the genre is so good. The Witcher was on the border, and yes, it was one of the best. What "the best" of last gen Wrpgs means though is up to you.
With some of the recent indie games though, things have changed. The Witcher 3 apparently has the budget, but creates a boring game, one that actually had better mechanics and a better flow with the first game.
tbh last generation has ruined every genre. like Good FPS almost become non existance (except Stalker, Crysis and FEAR) as most of them become COD clones and modern military FPS. even Doom 4 was about to turn into COD clone which was scrap
this generation is major improvement the likes of cRPG and old School FPS are back so are FPS/RPG hybrid as last gen has only deus ex hr but this gen we will also see system shock 3 along with deus ex md next.
I cant believe how boring witcher 3 is. they have huge budget but didnot improve combat. i guess CDPR suck at making combat. im worried about cyberpunk 2077.
So My friends, In this thread we talk about 5 most overrated games of this gen. what do you think top 5 are? Overrated not always mean game is bad. it means overpraised by critics.
As has been pointed out a few times; don't you just mean 'game I didn't like but other people did'? Overrated is a decidedly nebulous term at best, and just downright meaningless at worst.
I reserve my Top 5's/10's/20's for stuff I like - I don't see a lot of point in funneling negative energy towards stuff to specifically cuss up. Actually, no, if this was about the X-Men film franchise I think I might be able to conjure some emotive negativism but that's a whole 'nother topic...
I did not know of this new Unreal Tournament...and that it looks marvellous! Variety in a fantastical setting should be agiven, the only limitations are your own imagination, especially if there are map creation tools. Let the colour palette explore many moods. Even if they aren't "badass." Will have to look further into this upcoming UT...
There seems to be a stigma against bright colours in games these days, especially if they're not intended to be comedies or kid-friendly. But looking at the new UT that seems to be an unwarranted stigma, because those environments don't look "cartoony" or "childish", they look great! They really pop.
Similarly look at this System Shock 1 remake that's apparently in development:
You can do cool things with colour, and the PS1 version of Doom took advantage of this by having coloured lighting.
MORE SCREENSHOTS
Look at how moody those maps are with the use of colour. Doom 4 looks like a perfectly fun game but every screenshot I've seen of it so far just looks like Doom 3 but slightly brighter.
Fox12 said:
5. Quake
4. Wolfenstein
3. Half Life
2. Duke Nukem 3d
1. Doom 1&2
Honerable mention: Every single shooter from the 90s and early 2000's, especially Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.
I'm just pulling B-cell's leg since all of his threads are either about how everything's overrated or about 90s shooters. I actually played a lot of Doom growing up, and I may buy the new game when it goes down in price.
Edit: do you think there's a stigma against colorful games? I've actually seen a pretty strong backlash against that. Now it feels like tons of games are aiming for a more diverse color pallet. Even the traditionally brown shooter genre seems to be changing, if Battleborn and Overwatch are anything to go by.
The story premise of Unreal Tournament, flimsy as it is, has always been that it's a televised blood sport and as such it's in the shows producers best interest to find the most exotic locales and vibrant setting in which people can murder one another for the entertainment of the masses. From space ships to ancient castles to active mining facilities and city streets, it's a carte-blanche in-lore excuse for the devs to just make whatever level they want.
The huge diversity of levels has always been one of my favourite features of the series and I'm happy that the newest version of the game is keeping up the tradition.
I played exactly one match of the new Unreal Tournament, and I have to say... it's fucking fantastic. It looks great, the controls and feel of the game are simple and great, and the gameplay and weapons are straight forward, so unlike Overwatch, which requires a minimum investment level to understand what the hell is going on, you can just jump right in and get on with it.
Oh deary, it is now time i realise how much sooner i should start work on building a PC. This moment was inevitable, the catalyst unexpected however.
Dizchu said:
There seems to be a stigma against bright colours in games these days, especially if they're not intended to be comedies or kid-friendly. But looking at the new UT that seems to be an unwarranted stigma, because those environments don't look "cartoony" or "childish", they look great! They really pop.
Similarly look at this System Shock 1 remake that's apparently in development:
You can do cool things with colour, and the PS1 version of Doom took advantage of this by having coloured lighting.
MORE SCREENSHOTS
Look at how moody those maps are with the use of colour. Doom 4 looks like a perfectly fun game but every screenshot I've seen of it so far just looks like Doom 3 but slightly brighter.
Have just recently read an interview with an Epic Games designer that admitted wanting to move from Burton-esque design of old UT to more Nolan-esque realism with this reboot, but still keep the vibrance and variants of colour. To have the cake and eat it too, were the words he used. It appears to have worked out. System Shock is another that i have yet to try, and another reason to add haste to the PC planning seeds.
I haven't even really been keeping up with this generation. For the most part lately, I've either been catching up on the few games I missed last generation (which, I guess Jade Empire is the last I'm really interested in), playing some favorites (mostly simulation games like Roller Coaster Tycoon), and going back to some older RPGs I missed or didn't give a good enough try before (e.g. Planescape: Torment).
So I don't have much to add. If anything, I have more opinions about underrated games this generation rather than overrated.
Transistor - good combat system but the story was non-existant and didn't explain what the hell was going on.
Outlast - Youtube bait for screaming kids. But if you recognise where the jump scares will happen in advance, it stops being scary, and then there is nothing to distract from the terrible enemy AI, poor level design and basic gameplay.
The Witness - does a terrible job of teaching its mechanics to the player. Good puzzle games give the player the easy puzzles first so you understand what to do, and then build more complexity later. The Witness does it the other way around, so after several hours of frustration I resorted to using a guide to explain the rules (but not the specific solutions) of each puzzle. Poor game design.
Divinity Original Sin - combat was poorly balanced and the story was boring. My top10 games of all time is almost exclusively RPGs, its my favourite genre, but I couldn't be bothered to finish this one.
Darkest Dungeon - to begin with its a really good game. After 50 hours of repeating the same missions over and over and over and over again to try to grind for enough resources to buy the dozens of overpriced unlocks so that you can actually compete in the later dungeons, it just gets so boring. Didn't finish this either.
In all of these cases, I think they got massive bonus points on their review scores because of a) being indie and b) having pretty graphics. I also doubt most reviewers put the time into Darkest Dungeon to see its late game flaws.
While I'm keen to play Doom when I get the chances (and I'll likely enjoy it tons), I get the impression that Doom 3 and Doom 4 both misunderstood what people liked about Doom/Doom II so much.
Those two games were colourful, they contrasted the darkness with bright areas. The techbase designs were based more on Alien and Star Wars than the Alien sequels and the gothic-industrial style of stuff like Event Horizon. Sure they still had spooky tech-labyrinths but they weren't excessively dark and grim.
You know what game has the level design aesthetics a modern Doom needs? The new Unreal Tournament.
Replay the first 9 maps of Doom, what do you notice? Outdoor areas are bright and they are numerous. They contrast with the dark corridors and claustrophobia of inside areas. Doom 4 seems to have taken too make level design cues from Doom 3, and I have seen very few outdoor environments that break up the monotony. Does SnapMap even ALLOW outdoor environments?
Honestly I wish the developers of Doom 4 researched what kind of maps the community has been making 20 years on, instead of using Doom 3's interpretation of Doom's Romero maps and taking inspiration from obnoxious gameplay mods like Brutal Doom.
I'll let you in on something - of the three Doom games I've played D1, 2, 3), Doom 3 is my favorite.
Now before I'm sacrificed in the fires of Hell, or B-cell starts calling me "friend" or tell me how wrong I am (right now, option 1 sounds better), but moving on, what was there of Star Wars in any of the Doom games? Doom 1 and 3 both take inspiration from Alien/Aliens (more so the latter), but I can't think of any Star Wars elements.
It doesn't help that the outdoor areas of Doom I make no sense whatsoever, to the extent that I suspect that they were left over from the original Tai Tanga concept. Because I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Phobos doesn't have mountains, sky, enough gravity for anyone to move across the surface like an Olympic sprinter, or air for that matter. On the flipside, even with Doom 2016, with it being set on Mars, I'm not sure what variety you could reasonably expect.
To be honest, Doom 2016 is the first game that comes to mind for being "overrated" this generation, and the main reason I can't call it that is because, y'know, haven't even played it. Yet I can't help but wonder how it would fare if it wasn't a Doom game. And by virtue of a Doom game, it's the second reboot the series has had in a series that had so little story (in its pre-Doom 3 timeline at least), that, like Star Fox Zero (also the second reboot effectively), I'm left to ask, "why?" We give Hollywood flak for remakes, but when Doom does it? No complaint. And believe me, I was just as ticked off as Zero, yet that also got a free pass for its reboot mindset.
B-Cell said:
tbh last generation has ruined every genre. like Good FPS almost become non existance (except Stalker, Crysis and FEAR) as most of them become COD clones and modern military FPS. even Doom 4 was about to turn into COD clone which was scrap
this generation is major improvement the likes of cRPG and old School FPS are back so are FPS/RPG hybrid as last gen has only deus ex hr but this gen we will also see system shock 3 along with deus ex md next.
I cant believe how boring witcher 3 is. they have huge budget but didnot improve combat. i guess CDPR suck at making combat. im worried about cyberpunk 2077.
I know what you mean. Speaking personally, I find discussing (what I consider to be) underrated works more interesting than (what I consider to be) overrated ones. Heck, you can probably guess from my above posts that I consider Doom 3 to be underrated, in that while my favorite Doom game, it's the black sheep of the series. And to be fair, I do understand why. But that doesn't change my personal assessment.
Now before I'm sacrificed in the fires of Hell, or B-cell starts calling me "friend" or tell me how wrong I am (right now, option 1 sounds better), but moving on, what was there of Star Wars in any of the Doom games? Doom 1 and 3 both take inspiration from Alien/Aliens (more so the latter), but I can't think of any Star Wars elements.
Just the general set design, take the Millennium Falcon interior for example. Lots of browns, lots of tubes and exposed machinery and computer stuff. Certainly a lot less pristine than most of the Nostromo's interiors, and not as dark either.
It doesn't help that the outdoor areas of Doom I make no sense whatsoever, to the extent that I suspect that they were left over from the original Tai Tanga concept. Because I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Phobos doesn't have mountains, sky, enough gravity for anyone to move across the surface like an Olympic sprinter, or air for that matter. On the flipside, even with Doom 2016, with it being set on Mars, I'm not sure what variety you could reasonably expect.
It's true that the scientific accuracy of Doom is a joke, but I consider the story to be unnecessary. On a purely aesthetic level Doom's techbases are more varied and interesting than Doom 3's, though they're certainly not as detailed. But if we're talking about pure enjoyment, Doom 3's levels just cause me to feel fatigued and burned out after a few levels. It's something that became a problem in Quake and continued since then I guess, there's this sense that everything needs to cater to one specific mood, but the original Doom and Doom II had a whole bunch of different moods and themes. Many of those themes could be combined to form something really cool in the hands of the right mappers.
Something that hasn't aged well from Doom and Doom II's maps are the overall map designs. Romero's hold up pretty well and are used as a primary influence for many mappers today, but Sandy Petersen's maps were all about prioritising gameplay and even at the time the other employees at id Software thought they were hideous. Even Romero's maps are pretty nonsensical, but these flaws are often overcome by community mappers. What I find to be a shame is that the work of the community wasn't considered as important as id's work, which is inevitable but at the same time the reason why Doom remains my favourite game of all time is because of the extremes that Doom's gameplay and level design can be pushed to. Also a lot of community maps are damn beautiful.
To be honest, Doom 2016 is the first game that comes to mind for being "overrated" this generation, and the main reason I can't call it that is because, y'know, haven't even played it. Yet I can't help but wonder how it would fare if it wasn't a Doom game. And by virtue of a Doom game, it's the second reboot the series has had in a series that had so little story (in its pre-Doom 3 timeline at least), that, like Star Fox Zero (also the second reboot effectively), I'm left to ask, "why?" We give Hollywood flak for remakes, but when Doom does it? No complaint. And believe me, I was just as ticked off as Zero, yet that also got a free pass for its reboot mindset.
That depends on whether it's a good remake or not. When remakes are good they are generally liked, whether movies or games, but when a remake is worse than the original people begin to wonder why they even bothered.
Oh my God, it's beautiful: I had no idea this was even being developed.
Hawki said:
We give Hollywood flak for remakes, but when Doom does it? No complaint. And believe me, I was just as ticked off as Zero, yet that also got a free pass for its reboot mindset.
A lot of it has to do with intent I suppose. Let's compare a set of reasonably recent remakes: Dredd and Ghostbusters.
Now I'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to NOT have absorbed some of the hurricane of shit floating around the remake of Ghostbusters and most of it is rooted in the notion that there is nothing terribly dated about Ghostbusters 1 or 2 that meant a remake would be required for newer audiences to enjoy it. Note: I haven't seen it yet so a full 1:1 critique isn't possible as of this writing.
Dredd conversely was praised (though sadly not successful) as taking another stab at a property who's first attempt, Judge Dredd, is rightly seen as deeply mired in 90's era film making - though I personally will defend the visual design (sets, costumes etc) and the ABC Robot puppet to the death - and subsequently was just a bloody awful movie. Dredd conversely while lacking some of the more absurd aspects of the source has kept it's ultra-violent, black comedy and occasional but never heavy handed social satire elements and with the right team at the right time, created an action movie with real grit and teeth.
Indeed my love of the movie can be summed up in a single word.
Dredd conversely was praised (though sadly not successful) as taking another stab at a property who's first attempt, Judge Dredd, is rightly seen as deeply mired in 90's era film making - though I personally will defend the visual design (sets, costumes etc) and the ABC Robot puppet to the death - and subsequently was just a bloody awful movie. Dredd conversely while lacking some of the more absurd aspects of the source has kept it's ultra-violent, black comedy and occasional but never heavy handed social satire elements and with the right team at the right time, created an action movie with real grit and teeth.
Indeed my love of the movie can be summed up in a single word.
Haven't seen either Dredd, but can the second one be considered a remake? Considering that both films are adaptations of the same source material, at best, I'd say it's more of a reboot. I think "remake" can only be applied when the story is retold in the same medium as the original version. So for instance, the upcoming Jumanji film wouldn't be a remake, as the original film was based on a book. Ghostbusters would be a remake, as the original Ghostbusters was a film also, and the new one, as far as I can tell, is in a different continuity, with no ties to the original.
Well, everything except for graphics, art direction, shooting mechanics, controls, AI, story and soundtrack at least (compared to the first Bioshock that is, not Infinite).
I mean, System Shock 2 is more complex and it's got mazelike level design, but I really can't think of anything it did so much better.
Then you'll be pleased as punch to know you can download and play the alpha version of UT4 for free. Here you go [https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/]
I have and, oh my, it's some satisfying old-school fragging. If you happen to feel like the new Doom's multiplayer didn't quite scratch your arena shooter itch, UT4 will let you have your fill.
It does require you to register an account and play it through an Epic Games client, which I found a little inconvenient, but not overly so.
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