Topic: [OP has a view on Homosexuality]

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JochemHippie

Trippin' balls man.
Jan 9, 2012
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I don't have a problem with people that have different opinions. I do have a problem with unrational thinking and close mindedness.

An opinion might be subjective to the person, but that doesn't mean it's a good one.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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SaneAmongInsane said:
Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
Yeah. I don't like it either.

The thing is, it's so widely used because it makes it so much easier to win arguments.

It's easy to pick apart someone's post and criticize each bit, and it makes it harder to defend against.

I'm trying to stop myself from using it now.
 

Whitbane

Apathetic...
Mar 7, 2012
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[Angry response calling OP a bigot and insulting his mother].

Am I doing it correctly?

Also, people have opinions and opinions are hard to change.
 

Brandon237

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Mar 10, 2010
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SaneAmongInsane said:
OP POST: [Blah blah blah Homosexuality Blah Blah Blah View That Opposes Your Own Blah Blah Blah]
It was not just that the view in this thread opposed most peoples, it is that said view was horrific and had some calling for executions.

Rest of the topic: [RAWR! RELIGION STUPID! REPUBLICANS BAD!] [Hey man, not all religions bad.] [HOW DARE YOU RANDOM POSTER! YOU HAVE AN OPINION COUNTER TO MY OWN!] [Well my position is this!] [YOUR POSITION IS WRONG! CHANGE IT! IMA QUOTE YOU OUT OF CONTEXT TO MAKE YOU AND MAKE INNANE COMPARISONS!]

There is great ambiguity to what thread you are referring to, why don't you please direct me to this argument between hazy, stagnant and volf some Escapists that you have tried your absolute best to make anonymous.

Repeat verbatum till the topic dies. Nothing gets resolved. No good comes out of it. What's the point of conversing on a message board again?
We do see how aggressive and to what degree different posters are reasonable. And often enough there are actually debates about things other than a single line for the rest of the topic. And sometimes Genuinely new News is brought up. I am being optimistic here, work with me.

Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
...

IMPORTANT IF YOU QUOTE ME, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WILL.
I actually find this a nice, easy to read and reference format. Particularly when the other person is bringing up many ideas. You argue each point, and give a full summary at the end countering the general argument. Perfectly valid and easy to understand layout.
 

Lazier Than Thou

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Jun 27, 2009
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SaneAmongInsane said:
OP POST: [Blah blah blah Homosexuality Blah Blah Blah View That Opposes Your Own Blah Blah Blah]

Rest of the topic: [RAWR! RELIGION STUPID! REPUBLICANS BAD!] [Hey man, not all religions bad.] [HOW DARE YOU RANDOM POSTER! YOU HAVE AN OPINION COUNTER TO MY OWN!] [Well my position is this!] [YOUR POSITION IS WRONG! CHANGE IT! IMA QUOTE YOU OUT OF CONTEXT TO MAKE YOU AND MAKE INNANE COMPARISONS!]

Repeat verbatum till the topic dies. Nothing gets resolved. No good comes out of it. What's the point of conversing on a message board again?

Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
Personally, I don't argue with people to change their minds. It is, as you said, pointless. But there's more to a debate or discussion or conversation on the internet than just the people talking. There's the people reading or listening. They're watching, they're trying to understand. They'll make up their mind.

Really, when I get in a discussion, it's usually to point out a specific falsehood. I don't mind if people hate me, I just mind if they hate me because of a lie.

Don't worry about the people you talk to. Worry about the people who aren't talking but watching from the side lines.
 

JoJo

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I get you OP, I did try with a small modicum of success to widen the topic of one of the recent homosexual threads but there's only a certain amount one poster can do. People are free to make threads on whatever they want (within the forum rules) so I don't really care that much but I do find threads on homosexuality a bit redundant since anyone with even a slightly dissenting opinion is very quickly shouted down, sad since while I love the tolerance we generally have on this site it would be nice for a wider variety in opinions.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Lazier Than Thou said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
OP POST: [Blah blah blah Homosexuality Blah Blah Blah View That Opposes Your Own Blah Blah Blah]

Rest of the topic: [RAWR! RELIGION STUPID! REPUBLICANS BAD!] [Hey man, not all religions bad.] [HOW DARE YOU RANDOM POSTER! YOU HAVE AN OPINION COUNTER TO MY OWN!] [Well my position is this!] [YOUR POSITION IS WRONG! CHANGE IT! IMA QUOTE YOU OUT OF CONTEXT TO MAKE YOU AND MAKE INNANE COMPARISONS!]

Repeat verbatum till the topic dies. Nothing gets resolved. No good comes out of it. What's the point of conversing on a message board again?

Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.

Personally, I don't argue with people to change their minds. It is, as you said, pointless. But there's more to a debate or discussion or conversation on the internet than just the people talking. There's the people reading or listening. They're watching, they're trying to understand. They'll make up their mind.

Really, when I get in a discussion, it's usually to point out a specific falsehood. I don't mind if people hate me, I just mind if they hate me because of a lie.

Don't worry about the people you talk to. Worry about the people who aren't talking but watching from the side lines.
probably the best way to look at it. I suppose I'm just sick of repeating myself lately in debates.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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brandon237 said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
OP POST: [Blah blah blah Homosexuality Blah Blah Blah View That Opposes Your Own Blah Blah Blah]
It was not just that the view in this thread opposed most peoples, it is that said view was horrific and had some calling for executions.

Rest of the topic: [RAWR! RELIGION STUPID! REPUBLICANS BAD!] [Hey man, not all religions bad.] [HOW DARE YOU RANDOM POSTER! YOU HAVE AN OPINION COUNTER TO MY OWN!] [Well my position is this!] [YOUR POSITION IS WRONG! CHANGE IT! IMA QUOTE YOU OUT OF CONTEXT TO MAKE YOU AND MAKE INNANE COMPARISONS!]

There is great ambiguity to what thread you are referring to, why don't you please direct me to this argument between hazy, stagnant and volf some Escapists that you have tried your absolute best to make anonymous.

Repeat verbatum till the topic dies. Nothing gets resolved. No good comes out of it. What's the point of conversing on a message board again?
We do see how aggressive and to what degree different posters are reasonable. And often enough there are actually debates about things other than a single line for the rest of the topic. And sometimes Genuinely new News is brought up. I am being optimistic here, work with me.

Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
...

IMPORTANT IF YOU QUOTE ME, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WILL.
I actually find this a nice, easy to read and reference format. Particularly when the other person is bringing up many ideas. You argue each point, and give a full summary at the end countering the general argument. Perfectly valid and easy to understand layout.
No topic in particular. Just choose homosexuality because it seems to be the topic of the moment.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Kendarik said:
aegix drakan said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
Yeah. I don't like it either.

The thing is, it's so widely used because it makes it so much easier to win arguments.
It also breaks out a wall of text into managable sizes to discuss.
I'm with Kendarik this one. It makes it easier to understand what you are actually addressing. People don't keep their points to one per post, so you have two options:

a) split the post into the specific points you want to address and address each individually by having the context needed
b) quote the whole post to set the context (and make it clear to who you are talking to) and then write a lot more words that explain which points exactly you are talking about. You will have to repeat and rephrase what the other person said, in addition to the quote you have and the other text you're writing.

So, to address your point, SaneAmongInsane and aegix drakan - about separating another person's post and discussing each chunk, do you see how many words did I have to type to address just one point without quoting it?
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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DoPo said:
Kendarik said:
aegix drakan said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
Yeah. I don't like it either.

The thing is, it's so widely used because it makes it so much easier to win arguments.
It also breaks out a wall of text into managable sizes to discuss.
I'm with Kendarik this one. It makes it easier to understand what you are actually addressing. People don't keep their points to one per post, so you have two options:

a) split the post into the specific points you want to address and address each individually by having the context needed
b) quote the whole post to set the context (and make it clear to who you are talking to) and then write a lot more words that explain which points exactly you are talking about. You will have to repeat and rephrase what the other person said, in addition to the quote you have and the other text you're writing.

So, to address your point, SaneAmongInsane and aegix drakan - about separating another person's post and discussing each chunk, do you see how many words did I have to type to address just one point without quoting it?
Good point, good point. It is more organize but... I dunno, it comes across real snarky and condescending to me and I find it's harder to get a feel on the persons genuine tone
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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SaneAmongInsane said:
Good point, good point. It is more organize but... I dunno, it comes across real snarky and condescending to me and I find it's harder to get a feel on the persons genuine tone
Well, yes, it can be used for evil, when taking out the actual whole post, but not everybody uses it for evil. The same knife a knife can kill but people still use it for other stuff. And there is always the link at the top of the quote[footnote]I always leave it there,[/footnote] to view the actual post if you have any doubts. The issue here is size - if you include the whole quote (that often has something quoted) you are including close to the same amount of text you'll write. If not more. At any rate, it becomes a huge wall of text and there is no real benefit for people following the thread - they would just skim the quote.
 

zelda2fanboy

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Oct 6, 2009
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Yes, indeed. And yet homosexuals continue to do whatever it is they want with their own bodies, regardless of how any heterosexuals feel about it. It's freaking pointless. Being pro-gay is just as meaningless and unnecessary as being anti-gay. Gay people do not care what we think - the beginning, middle. and end of the discussion. Having an opinion here is about as relevant as having opinions about the sun.

And if you are gay and you are on these threads looking for validation, for the love of God leave the house and find someone to have sex with. It would be a much better use of your time. Hell, doing anything other than this would be a better use of your time.
 

Xanadu84

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Apr 9, 2008
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If you think that being homosexual makes you a worse person, then frankly, you are not spouting an opinion worthy of consideration. This is much the same phenomena as when you dismiss the serial killers argument that he needed to eat that persons brain because otherwise the Nazis will control his thoughts through his soap dish. It's just stupid and should be treated as such, unless curteous discussion might make a person less reprehensible. This is quite often. But it is disrespectful to assume that a bigot has a point. Now if a person has a problem with homosexuality that does not assume that simply being gay makes you worse, then there may be a discussion. Not always, but one should err on the side of reasonable discourse. Believe me, I will consider the merits of ideas that I consider reprehensible. Ill listen to a person pushing eugenics, PETA style animal rights, or pre emptive war, but hateing the gays is not a position worthy of anything except my ridicule, and if I feel that areasonable discourse is the appropriate course of action, it is more then the bigot deserves.
 

Xyliss

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Mar 21, 2010
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SaneAmongInsane said:
OP POST: [Blah blah blah Homosexuality Blah Blah Blah View That Opposes Your Own Blah Blah Blah]

Rest of the topic: [RAWR! RELIGION STUPID! REPUBLICANS BAD!] [Hey man, not all religions bad.] [HOW DARE YOU RANDOM POSTER! YOU HAVE AN OPINION COUNTER TO MY OWN!] [Well my position is this!] [YOUR POSITION IS WRONG! CHANGE IT! IMA QUOTE YOU OUT OF CONTEXT TO MAKE YOU AND MAKE INNANE COMPARISONS!]

Repeat verbatum till the topic dies. Nothing gets resolved. No good comes out of it. What's the point of conversing on a message board again?

Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
But surely thats what a debate is? Talking through points and disputing each others arguments...admitedly that doesn't quite work on the internet
 

Xanadu84

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Apr 9, 2008
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zelda2fanboy said:
Yes, indeed. And yet homosexuals continue to do whatever it is they want with their own bodies, regardless of how any heterosexuals feel about it. It's freaking pointless. Being pro-gay is just as meaningless and unnecessary as being anti-gay. Gay people do not care what we think - the beginning, middle. and end of the discussion. Having an opinion here is about as relevant as having opinions about the sun.

And if you are gay and you are on these threads looking for validation, for the love of God leave the house and find someone to have sex with. It would be a much better use of your time. Hell, doing anything other than this would be a better use of your time.
Please take this as an opposing argument and not an insult, because I want to raise a point, not attack you. I see the point you wish to make. However, the gay kid bullied into suicide, the loving family man who gets assaulted while being called a, "******", and the significant other who has no say in his husbands end of life care has a serious interest in how other people percieve him as a homosexual.
 

darron13

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Jul 30, 2008
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zelda2fanboy said:
Yes, indeed. And yet homosexuals continue to do whatever it is they want with their own bodies, regardless of how any heterosexuals feel about it. It's freaking pointless. Being pro-gay is just as meaningless and unnecessary as being anti-gay. Gay people do not care what we think - the beginning, middle. and end of the discussion. Having an opinion here is about as relevant as having opinions about the sun.

And if you are gay and you are on these threads looking for validation, for the love of God leave the house and find someone to have sex with. It would be a much better use of your time. Hell, doing anything other than this would be a better use of your time.
You are indeed correct, we do not care what the anti-gays think, but we DO care about is personal rights, freedoms and the ability to not be looked down upon, THAT'S more what people try to change, while we also try to educate people along the way...most are aware that some people are just beyond convincing.

Though there are a few things you forget as well, there actually IS meaning to being pro-gay rights, for example, my friends are pro-gay rights, not really just because they want LGBT people to have better lives but because they want ME to have a better life, this is the case with most people, they do it because someone they care about is affected, you can't blame someone for wanting to protect a loved one. Being ANTI-Gay on the other hand...I don't see the point of, how does it affect them, when other people are gay, exactly?

Finally, gay people on these forums aren't really here looking for validation, they're more here to discuss gaming, their opinions and other such things, as is the point of forums. Most who I've seen type on here are quite comfortable with themselves and are past the point of needing any kind of validation. But when you see people speaking down on you, most can't help but respond, it's natural. Again, I don't blame them because I know how it is.

It's true that these arguments always go in circles and the same points are always brought up, I find them entertaining to read, I almost always learn something new from both sides of the issue, and that never hurts.
 

Gennadios

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Aug 19, 2009
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SaneAmongInsane said:
Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
I was under the impression that is the proper methodology for debate - to argue against every point the opposition has a counter to.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Gennadios said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Also on a side note, I really loath when a user quotes someone and line by line counter argues against the other persons post. This is my own personal gripe, it's annoying when Rush Limbaugh does it, it's not less annoying here.
I was under the impression that is the proper methodology for debate - to argue against every point the opposition has a counter to.
to me it sounds like when a talk-show host starts picking apart the audio of someones speech, not a debate where the floor jumps back and forth.