Transgender Day of Rememberance

[Helmholtz Watson]

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

really? Your going to insult the people who saved the lives of people in the holocaust? On behalf of my dead Jewish grandparents who were saved from death by veterans, I think you need to seriously reconsider what you wrote and how insulting it is for you to bad mouth those who saved innocent lives during such a terrible and chaotic time. smh

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

really? Your going to insult the people who saved the lives of people in the holocaust? On behalf of my dead Jewish grandparents who were saved from death by veterans, I think you need to seriously reconsider what you wrote and how insulting it is for you to bad mouth those who saved innocent lives during such a terrible and chaotic time. smh

Oh I'm sorry, did you think 'veterans' only come from WWII? And that those in WWII ran off to go save people from the Holocaust?

Cry about your dead Jewish grandparents to someone who is distracted easily by that sort of whining appeal to emotion. I'm not.

When you made that statement, you addressed ALL veterans.

"whining appeal to emotion", its funny that on a thread that is appealing to people's emotions (by stating all the horrible bullsh*t that transgenders people have to go through) your condemning me for doing the exact same. That's a charming outlook. I didn't realize that me stating that you shouldn't condemn people who saved others from genocide, equates to me using "that sort of whining appeal to emotion".

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

*Sigh*. Threads like these just show how ignorant and hateful people are. Reading this thread just made me sad. I don't get why people feel the need or desire to treat others so poorly. It's 2011 and we're still just as idiotic as ever. It's asinine at best.

Anyway, I tip my hat to those that go through the process and the social issues you have to deal with. You're braver than I in that retrospect since I never followed through because of it. For those that just seem to like to hijack the thread for their own stupidity, all I can say is grow up.

Pull your head out of the damn sand already...

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

really? Your going to insult the people who saved the lives of people in the holocaust? On behalf of my dead Jewish grandparents who were saved from death by veterans, I think you need to seriously reconsider what you wrote and how insulting it is for you to bad mouth those who saved innocent lives during such a terrible and chaotic time. smh

Oh I'm sorry, did you think 'veterans' only come from WWII? And that those in WWII ran off to go save people from the Holocaust?

Cry about your dead Jewish grandparents to someone who is distracted easily by that sort of whining appeal to emotion. I'm not.

When you made that statement, you addressed ALL veterans.

When you made that statement you offended all people who value basic logic everywhere. I simply pointed out the job of a soldier.

"whining appeal to emotion", its funny that on a thread that is appealing to people's emotions (by stating all the horrible bullsh*t that transgenders people have to go through) your condemning me for doing the exact same.

And the people who value basic logic groan at your inability to distinguish between promoting an emotional issue and attacking a statement based on random other emotional shit.

That's a charming outlook. I didn't realize that me stating that you shouldn't condemn people who saved others from genocide, equates to me using "that sort of whining appeal to emotion".

No, you whining about your dead grandparents when they're not relevant equates to it. And going for WWII vets as a reason to celebrate ALL veterans is stupid anyway.

Last I checked, being a veteran didn't mean that you HAD to kill people. There are other parts of the military that don't involve shooting/bombing/killing people. You just made the assumption that veteran = someone who kills people, which is not always the case.

It isn't "random" when you state that the people who saved my grandparents are just people who are assigned to kill people. Its insulting and incredibly ignorant to make a general statement about people who you never met, and label them killers. The people who saved my grandparents would now be considered veterans, and at the time, those veterans were just a few UNARMED scouts, not some killers.

Again I didn't say celebrate ALL veterans, I stated that YOU addressed ALL veterans. You made it about WW2 when you made that ignorant statement about ALL veterans.

For the record, I don't think we should celebrated ALL veterans just because of the WW2 veterans.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

really? Your going to insult the people who saved the lives of people in the holocaust? On behalf of my dead Jewish grandparents who were saved from death by veterans, I think you need to seriously reconsider what you wrote and how insulting it is for you to bad mouth those who saved innocent lives during such a terrible and chaotic time. smh

Oh I'm sorry, did you think 'veterans' only come from WWII? And that those in WWII ran off to go save people from the Holocaust?

Cry about your dead Jewish grandparents to someone who is distracted easily by that sort of whining appeal to emotion. I'm not.

When you made that statement, you addressed ALL veterans.

When you made that statement you offended all people who value basic logic everywhere. I simply pointed out the job of a soldier.

"whining appeal to emotion", its funny that on a thread that is appealing to people's emotions (by stating all the horrible bullsh*t that transgenders people have to go through) your condemning me for doing the exact same.

And the people who value basic logic groan at your inability to distinguish between promoting an emotional issue and attacking a statement based on random other emotional shit.

That's a charming outlook. I didn't realize that me stating that you shouldn't condemn people who saved others from genocide, equates to me using "that sort of whining appeal to emotion".

No, you whining about your dead grandparents when they're not relevant equates to it. And going for WWII vets as a reason to celebrate ALL veterans is stupid anyway.

Last I checked, being a veteran didn't mean that you HAD to kill people. There are other parts of the military that don't involve shooting/bombing/killing people. You just made the assumption that veteran = someone who kills people, which is not always the case.

It isn't "random" when you state that the people who saved my grandparents are just people who are assigned to kill people. Its insulting and incredibly ignorant to make a general statement about people who you never met, and label them killers. The people who saved my grandparents would now be considered veterans, and at the time, those veterans were just a few UNARMED scouts, not some killers.

Again I didn't say celebrate ALL veterans, I stated that YOU addressed ALL veterans. You made it about WW2 when you made that ignorant statement about ALL veterans.

For the record, I don't think we should celebrated ALL veterans just because of the WW2 veterans.

The job of the military is mostly to kill people, and the other jobs tend to support that.

It's ignorant of you to not understand basic little things, like that the job of the military is mostly to kill people. I simply pointed it out.

You're whining about me pointing out the job of veterans really. And it's true, whether they did anything good or not their job was pretty much to kill for the government or in other ways support said effort.

The only thing I'm bringing to your attention is the ignorant statement you made that ALL veterans are people who killed someone, when this is NOT the case. My example was the people who saved my grandparents were NOT killers. You seem to want to think ALL veterans killed people. I won't deny that parts of the military do have the task of killing people, but your ignorant/have some kind of prejudice if you think ALL veterans are/have been tasked with killing people.

 

[Smagmuck_]

The job of the military is mostly to kill people, and the other jobs tend to support that.

Actually, that's not entirely true. I will kindly point you to <link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Dental_Battalion>here and <link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Medical_Battalion>here. Oh wait, there's actually an <link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Coast_Guard>entire branch that contradicts this. Now, by your logic, these battalions would be designed to kill, wouldn't they? No, they're not. They're meant to give basic health aid and boarder protection to people, from basic forms of terrorism and ailments.

It's ignorant of you to not understand basic little things, like that the job of the military is mostly to kill people. I simply pointed it out.

And it's ignorant (and hypocritical) of you to generalize (and discriminate) people with a different occupation than you.

You're whining about me pointing out the job of veterans really. And it's true, whether they did anything good or not their job was pretty much to kill for the government or in other ways support said effort.

Actually, the job of a Veteran is to integrate themselves back into civilian society after their time in the military is up, weather or not they saw combat.

 

[Smagmuck_]

Oh I'm sorry I forgot that we totally are talking about veteran coast guards.

Then don't generalize the entire military and be more specific.

And a friendly reminder, please work on your sarcasm.

 

[Thespian]

Yeah man, that's pretty bad. It's not like normal people are murdered with anything NEAR that kind of frequency!
Oh wait.

-----

I've never understood why people feel the need to have National x Days. Obviously if it's in commemoration for an historic event, sure thing, go at it hammer and tongs; but for a specific type of persons? No, that's just daft in my opinion.

Now what the hell is your point, exactly?
Obviously the point of these days is to raise awareness. I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't realize that discrimination against transgenders is in such an awful state these days. Commemorative days like these are like warning symbols, alerting people to some of the specific horrors out there. Why people like you tend to take from these days the message "THESE people's deaths are more important than others!" I shall never understand.

If there is a minority, and it suffers because it is a minority, and this is not a widely known fact with a lot of media attention, it stands to reason that something like an International Day could be used to draw attention to it an again, raise awareness.
That does NOT belittle anyone else's death.
If I, or anyone else calls it "Grim", we obviously don't mean "That's grim compared to the deaths of non-transgender people, which are just trivial."

 

[Thaluikhain]

Now what the hell is your point, exactly?
Obviously the point of these days is to raise awareness. I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't realize that discrimination against transgenders is in such an awful state these days. Commemorative days like these are like warning symbols, alerting people to some of the specific horrors out there. Why people like you tend to take from these days the message "THESE people's deaths are more important than others!" I shall never understand.

If there is a minority, and it suffers because it is a minority, and this is not a widely known fact with a lot of media attention, it stands to reason that something like an International Day could be used to draw attention to it an again, raise awareness.
That does NOT belittle anyone else's death.
If I, or anyone else calls it "Grim", we obviously don't mean "That's grim compared to the deaths of non-transgender people, which are just trivial."

There seems to be an odd assumption that it's a zero sum game, that there's only a limited amount of caring about problems to go around. Worrying about transgender people being murdered means everyone else somehow misses out.

 

[Thespian]

There seems to be an odd assumption that it's a zero sum game, that there's only a limited amount of caring about problems to go around. Worrying about transgender people being murdered means everyone else somehow misses out.

It's just seeing exclusivity where there is none. Observing one tragedy in the world is not done at the expense of all other tragedies.

However, looking to the horrors have the past helps prevent them being repeated. This applies doubly for the horrors of the present. Should Transgender murders be considered more important than other murders? Of course not. Should we set aside a small window of time to look at them in focus? Yes, that is a rational approach from which many people in this thread seem to be drawing irrational conclusions.

 

[weker]

Threads like these just show how ignorant and hateful people are. Reading this thread just made me sad. I don't get why people feel the need or desire to treat others so poorly. It's 2011 and we're still just as idiotic as ever. It's asinine at best.

The reason people do not want the day, is because they don't care. It's not hateful in anyway, it's just many people acknowledged the world sucks, and either don't value this day or feel others are more deserving.
I don't care so in other words if there are enough people supporting it, go for it.

 

[Mischa87]

I never knew there was such a thing as Transgender Day of Remembrance*, nor of Transgender Awareness Week. 70% commit suicide? That tells you a lot about the transsexual community. Sad really.

When is Transvestite Week, cross dressers need a week too, eh?

Transgender is an umbrella term that covers, transsexuals, genderbenders, genderfucks, bigendered, trigenedered, non-gendered the whole nine yards of gender expression, this includes cross dressers and transvestites.

That being said. TDOR, and TG awareness week is for them too, so if you like to dress up in clothing of the opposite sex and dance in front of your cats, then it's your day too, all the power to ya.

 

[Mischa87]

Perhaps my reaction was hasty. I wrote a bit on LGBT boards when I was in college. I got sick of the "oh woe is me, what do I do?" attitude inherent in much of it. That's where I got preachy about fighting. I understand that not everyone can do it, but that's the part that raises my ire the most. I'm not that special. If I can do it, anyone can. That's why I tell my story. That's why I reacted the way I did.

Well yes, if that's all there was, it would surely get annoying, I guess I'm fortunate in that I've actually seen very little of that in my years. I guess that was brought on by the type of company I kept. Back when I was more social, the majority of my friends were 30-50 year old transwomen, to make it that long, you'd have to be strong, and I'm not too proud to admit that their strength helped me to become stronger as well, for which I am grateful.

And in the LGBT support group I founded in real life, anyone that was able to show up while living in my small, overly-religious, backwards little town, was definitely strong-willed, and brave.

That being said, those who cannot stand up for themselves, are still people that need help, they're still in this with the rest of us, and they still feel the sting of ignorance and hate from people.

Even if they don't/can't stand up and speak out, they're still there, backing those who can (I always get supportive PMs from people who thank me for sticking up for them when they wern't willing to out themselves) That's part of why my friends list is so small on here, they don't want to be outed by being on such a vocal member of the community's list.

I have no basis for comparison concerning the "sudden wrongness" that you describe, so I'll concede your point on the suicides. If for no other reason than "That's BS I don't believe it" is the last ditch argument of the woefully stupid and I'd like to think I'm better than that. Though the self the most powerful opponent, as your case certainly demonstrates, I fail to see how killing oneself is anything other than giving up the fight, but that's my own failing. Perhaps it's a different victory, just going the other way.

Overwhelming wrongness, it's not exactly sudden, many of us have known since we were children that something was off, it's just when one's "Bell goes off" It's the point where one feels that they need to do something about it, or die.

Well, in response to the supposed weakness of those that commit suicide in this case, I'll quote my wise Harley-Davidson riding aunt: "Depression isn't about being weak, it's about having to be strong for far too long" Which I firmly believe to be true.

I'll go and see for myself the last struggles of those killed. The fighters I'll honor and drink a toast to their names, the rest I'll ignore (sorry, but that's me). If you have any in particular to point out, PM me and help me hear their stories. You've made me more aware. So perhaps there is some good in it. I might draw something up to sing for them next year.

Sometime today I'll be posting a short list, and the stories of a few of the people I was familiar with, and who aren't with us anymore, as well as sharing my own story, and why I've been able to keep pushing on, and my passion for equality.

Edit: Too emotional from the events today, coupled with some disturbing news about an old friend... I apologize for not posting the stories here.

 

[Damien Granz]

Hey guys, here's a novel goddamn idea! There can be more than one remembrance day! Holy shit!

It's not like if there's a transsexual awareness week it somehow devalues military service or military service remembrance. How totally arbitrary!

And you know what? Some of you banging on and on about how we all absolutely have to drop every fucking thing we do, think, feel and are to prostrate ourselves in front of the absolute unobtainable glory of the living sacrifice of military service only serve to do one thing for me, and that's to make me resent military personnel.

"They died for your freedom, so you have to give up your freedom to whatever random pet cause I have!" doesn't make them sound like martyrs to venerate, it makes you sound like a coward hiding behind the wall of other people's sacrifice.

It actually totally devalues their sacrifice down to absolutely nothing because apparently in either scenario, we have no freedom (unless we do what you want, neh?), but in this scenario, some poor guy died for me to have that 'privilege'. Way to go dying for me to have that 'right'. Lives well spent.

No, what honestly sounds like here, is a handful of, honestly homophobic cowards hiding out behind the military, to make a stupid point.

Mmh. Why does no one seem to devote finances to curing that mental state? Considering that this problem IS an actual issue, and one that claims many lives, one would think resources would be devoted to curing it... but one only has to suggest "research to cure transgenderism" to watch the Internet explode in flames.

No offense is meant to those who hold this event sacred. I understand that people have died - been killed, even - by truly evil individuals. I fully support the exercise of the full extent of the law in addressing these evils. Just keep in mind that those individuals are: a. only a microscopic subset of their communities, and b. universally present in every faction and group.

I know this is a million pages back and you're might be trolling with the whole obvious 'flame wall raised' thing, so I might be wasting my time, but I'll try to respond to this anyways.

The reason there doesn't need to be a 'cure' is fairly similar to the reason there doesn't need to be a 'cure' for being black.

In most cases with transsexuals, their hardship and grief is largely inflicted on them. If left alone to their own devices without society giving them shit for who they are, and not trying to inflict on them a view of who they're 'supposed' to be, they deal with their identity pretty fine.

If anybody needs a 'cure' for transsexuals it's people that won't leave them alone to express in whatever gender or identity they want to express in.

 

[omicron1]

Hey guys, here's a novel goddamn idea! There can be more than one remembrance day! Holy shit!

It's not like if there's a transsexual awareness week it somehow devalues military service or military service remembrance. How totally arbitrary!

And you know what? Some of you banging on and on about how we all absolutely have to drop every fucking thing we do, think, feel and are to prostrate ourselves in front of the absolute unobtainable glory of the living sacrifice of military service only serve to do one thing for me, and that's to make me resent military personnel.

"They died for your freedom, so you have to give up your freedom to whatever random pet cause I have!" doesn't make them sound like martyrs to venerate, it makes you sound like a coward hiding behind the wall of other people's sacrifice.

It actually totally devalues their sacrifice down to absolutely nothing because apparently in either scenario, we have no freedom (unless we do what you want, neh?), but in this scenario, some poor guy died for me to have that 'privilege'. Way to go dying for me to have that 'right'. Lives well spent.

No, what honestly sounds like here, is a handful of, honestly homophobic cowards hiding out behind the military, to make a stupid point.

Mmh. Why does no one seem to devote finances to curing that mental state? Considering that this problem IS an actual issue, and one that claims many lives, one would think resources would be devoted to curing it... but one only has to suggest "research to cure transgenderism" to watch the Internet explode in flames.

No offense is meant to those who hold this event sacred. I understand that people have died - been killed, even - by truly evil individuals. I fully support the exercise of the full extent of the law in addressing these evils. Just keep in mind that those individuals are: a. only a microscopic subset of their communities, and b. universally present in every faction and group.

I know this is a million pages back and you're might be trolling with the whole obvious 'flame wall raised' thing, so I might be wasting my time, but I'll try to respond to this anyways.

The reason there doesn't need to be a 'cure' is fairly similar to the reason there doesn't need to be a 'cure' for being black.

In most cases with transsexuals, their hardship and grief is largely inflicted on them. If left alone to their own devices without society giving them shit for who they are, and not trying to inflict on them a view of who they're 'supposed' to be, they deal with their identity pretty fine.

If anybody needs a 'cure' for transsexuals it's people that won't leave them alone to express in whatever gender or identity they want to express in.

I'm sorry, but mental and physical properties are not and will never be similar in permanence or severity.
Otherwise, no one would ever visit psychiatrists. It just happens to be in vogue right now to think of this particular issue as normal.

To be frank, I would love to have a cure. It would make my life a lot easier, and I can't imagine I'm the only one out there. But you (and a lot of other people) refuse even to consider such an action. Why? Would finding a cure make it harder to identify the problem as normal? Am I to go around my entire life torn internally because other people want to think of themselves as normal, natural, and in the right? Or would you prescribe endless, disfiguring surgery as the "right answer"?