Tropes vs Women SECOND VIDEO - "Damsel in Distress: Part 2"

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LiquidGrape

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Oh look, the trolls inundated the new episode with inappropriate contents/copyright claims and managed to get the video taken down.

Who is it who's trying to stifle discussion again?
 

BeeGeenie

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DVS BSTrD said:
LetalisK said:
DVS BSTrD said:
Can someone just tell me what troops and what games she addresses?
I'd rather be able to make a counter argument (if I feel the need to) without grinding my teeth into dust.
You want to make a counter argument to an argument you don't entertain?
I think clearer when my emotions aren't involved, and I'd rather have the cliff notes then watch the whole thing :p
You could always watch it, give yourself some time to cool off and consider it rationally, and then write a reasonable and informed response. But ain't nobody got time fo' dat. ;)
 

JoJo

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Wasn't a bad video, I managed to see all of it before the copyright lock, for whatever reason that occurred. My only real disagreement with her is about her condemnation of plots where a daughter is a damsel in distress, I would say that has little to do with sexism against adult women since a child would naturally come under the protection of the hero, regardless of gender.
 

Andy Shandy

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IceForce said:
LiquidGrape said:
It might well be that it's YouTube's content ID system that took it down just now instead of trolls, due to the quickness that it was taken down. All she has to do is appeal and it should be up again relatively shortly.

So it might not have been the trolls. This time, anyway.

And that's just me guessing.
 

LetalisK

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DVS BSTrD said:
LetalisK said:
DVS BSTrD said:
Can someone just tell me what troops and what games she addresses?
I'd rather be able to make a counter argument (if I feel the need to) without grinding my teeth into dust.
You want to make a counter argument to an argument you don't entertain?
I think clearer when my emotions aren't involved, and I'd rather have the cliff notes then watch the whole thing :p
It seems like you want to disagree just to disagree, not because you actually have a point to make. This is besides a second-hand retelling runs the risk of being a misrepresentation, particularly with how information, example, and disclaimer dense this video is, and thus possibly making your entire argument a strawman through no fault of your own. More importantly, it'd be a second hand retelling of a 25 minute video. It's already at a bite size consumption level and there is no reason to run that risk. Even if you find her completely unlikeable and the very sight of her makes your blood boil, if you can't watch her video, walk away until you've calmed down, then come back and make a decent post, then you should save yourself the pain and ignore her. It's just not worth it.

But that's a pretty moot point now since it's been taken down.
 

generals3

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Did she just get owned by Youtube? (i can't see it due to user agreement violation) Or is it a regional issue?

EDIT: nvm, i overlooked the posted tweet. I guess the internet did what it did best.
 

Church185

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Andy Shandy said:
It might well be that it's YouTube's content ID system that took it down just now instead of trolls, due to the quickness that it was taken down. All she has to do is appeal and it should be up again relatively shortly.

So it might not have been the trolls. This time, anyway.

And that's just me guessing.
God help her if it is the content ID system, it took nearly 6 months for my Tekken Tag 2 video claim to be appealed. It may be awhile before we see this video.
 

dragon_tail

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JoJo said:
Wasn't a bad video, I managed to see all of it before the copyright lock, for whatever reason that occurred. My only real disagreement with her is about her condemnation of plots where a daughter is a damsel in distress, I would say that has little to do with sexism against adult women since the child would naturally come under the protection of the hero, regardless of gender.
And yet, it it mostly daughters. You could say that the reason why is that the player character is usually male and there is that "father and daughter" bond thing but I don't really see that being the reason.

wombat_of_war said:
Yes, that would be a shocking scene for sure. :D
 

Shadowstar38

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I'll give it a watch if and when the restriction thing gets lifted. Though it might be best for everyone's sanity if that doesn't happen.
 

JoJo

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dragon_tail said:
JoJo said:
Wasn't a bad video, I managed to see all of it before the copyright lock, for whatever reason that occurred. My only real disagreement with her is about her condemnation of plots where a daughter is a damsel in distress, I would say that has little to do with sexism against adult women since the child would naturally come under the protection of the hero, regardless of gender.
And yet, it it mostly daughters. You could say that the reason why is that the player character is usually male and there is that "father and daughter" bond thing but I don't really see that being the reason.
A fair point, while there are exceptions (e.g. Heavy Rain) there definitely is a lean towards daughters, possibly as young girls are stereotypically considered to be more vulnerable and sympathy-eliciting than young boys, which I suppose is a form of sexism itself, so I will concede that. Still, I don't think it's a perfect fit with the whole "women need protection and saving by their men" angle that Sarkeesian was criticising since part of the role of a parent is to provide protection to one's child and so it isn't degrading for that sort of relationship to be common in games, as opposed to the man always having to save or avenge his (supposedly equal) significant other.
 

LetalisK

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wombat_of_war said:
i couldnt of worded it better myself. it isnt till its displayed like this showing over and over how the theme is constantly repeated in gaming that i literally went ouch. time for gaming to grow up.

id like to see something subversive in a game where the trope plays out as the standard damsel in distrss the hero gets to the end to discover his damsel has already escaped. queue capture scene and she has to now rescue him
It made me think "Maybe that developer making the comment about how they put Lara Croft through so much physical pain so that the male audience will care about her is not so far off the mark". Now I think a good question to ask is if such a course of action is justified or if it's an unnecessary relic in game writing. Do we really need to go to that extent to get the audience to care about her or is it just habit? Or possibly it was an honest attempt at character development and to break the mold of how protagonists are established and had the "unfortunate" circumstance of happening to a female protagonist. I would like to assume the latter.
 

Estelindis

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I thought this video was excellent. She backed up her points with plenty of examples. I liked how she said that this trope isn't good for men either because it tends to normalize men using violence to overcome the feeling of being powerless.
 

Tohuvabohu

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Ronack said:
Glad to see that there are still DUDE BROS out there that can't handle a poignant conversation, instead choosing to falsely flag an innocent video and get it pulled down. What would we do without them? Oh, right, advance as a human species.
Surely, this could've been easily avoided and such a thing would've never happened if she never closed her comment box and stifled all discussion in the first place!






pffffftsorry I couldn't keep a straight face :D [/spoiler]

OT: I managed to see it before it got pulled down. Overall, I liked this episode moreso than her previous one. I hope her next vid won't take as long to come out as this one. Cause it's getting tiring holding off any opinions about her work until the end (And whether or not this fiasco was worth the drama and 100,000$ to begin with)

Discussion value? I guess I can't really deny anything she pointed out. Overused tropes indeed, and I think that stems from lack of creativity, rather than an active vendetta against an entire gender.

Not that this makes it less of a problem.
 

Estelindis

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Tohuvabohu said:
Surely, this could've been easily avoided and such a thing would've never happened if she never closed her comment box and stifled all discussion in the first place!
I'm not under the impression that closing comments is a violation of the terms of service and thus a reason to take the video down. I mean, obviously, if it was then YouTube wouldn't even give the option for that!
Tohuvabohu said:
Overused tropes indeed, and I think that stems from lack of creativity, rather than an active vendetta against an entire gender.

Not that this makes it less of a problem.
Yes, I think this is pretty much what Anita said herself and I agree.
 

IceForce

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Batou667 said:
"Video removed due to violating Youtube's terms of service"
LiquidGrape said:
Oh look, the trolls inundated the new episode with inappropriate contents/copyright claims and managed to get the video taken down.
Shadowstar38 said:
I'll give it a watch if and when the restriction thing gets lifted. Though it might be best for everyone's sanity if that doesn't happen.
Video is back up again.

Also, a bit of an explanation about what happened:
[tweet t=http://twitter.com/femfreq/status/339507377915183104]
So it was trolls, basically.
 

IllumInaTIma

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Just watched it and, honestly, totally loved it. I was impressed by first episode, but second just nailed it. She provided many examples and data, reinforcing every trope she was talking about. Also, she explained how overuse of those tropes might also degrade male characters, kudos for that. All in all, very, very impressive episode.