Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey?

[ElPatron]

Because is isn't healthy.

You're gonna have to back that up with actual evidence, otherwise it's just your opinion.

And people sitting on their fat asses playing videogames or watching TV isn't healthy either.

People shouldn't hand their lives over to someone else. You only get one after all. I know that's my opinion but as someone who has been in an actual abusive relationship I can't see that kind of dynamic ending well.

1. If I only get one, then maybe I should live it the way I want, not the way you want.

2. Then maybe our prison system is wrong. People who are not insane decide to hand over their life the moment they commit a crime.

Also, context. You're throwing around the word abuse and so far I still haven't figured out if you include consensual BDSM in "abusive relationships" or not.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

2. Then maybe our prison system is wrong. People who are not insane decide to hand over their life the moment they commit a crime.

Pretty sure crime is considered wrong. Unless you think I consider the sub partner here to be guilty of something that analogy doesn't stand up :/

If by consensual BDSM relationships you mean what goes on in the bedroom that's fine. But if someone is trying to control someone elses life through their attraction to them that seems abusive and unhealthy to me. You can lose weight but you can't get over mental damage or conditioning that easily.

 

[ElPatron]

2. Then maybe our prison system is wrong. People who are not insane decide to hand over their life the moment they commit a crime.

Pretty sure crime is considered wrong. Unless you think I consider the sub partner here to be guilty of something that analogy doesn't stand up :/

Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Even you agree that there is a justification to take someone's freedom of choice by placing them in correctional facilities.

Consensual agreement should be fine too, although I think contractual agreements are baloney.

If by consensual BDSM relationships you mean what goes on in the bedroom that's fine. But if someone is trying to control someone elses life through their attraction to them that seems abusive and unhealthy to me. You can lose weight but you can't get over mental damage or conditioning that easily.

Speaking about contractual agreements, what about marriage? To me it's the same thing. There is no fundamental difference in the part of "consenting".

Plus, who mentioned mental damage? Who mentioned conditioning? I can't fault someone for having a partner that likes to wear a collar like a pet all day, not just in the bedroom.

 

[Ravinoff]

I'd say 50 Shades, just on the basic reason that I'd rather read poorly-written erotica than whatever the fuck Twilight is.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

2. Then maybe our prison system is wrong. People who are not insane decide to hand over their life the moment they commit a crime.

Pretty sure crime is considered wrong. Unless you think I consider the sub partner here to be guilty of something that analogy doesn't stand up :/

Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Even you agree that there is a justification to take someone's freedom of choice by placing them in correctional facilities.

Consensual agreement should be fine too, although I think contractual agreements are baloney.

If by consensual BDSM relationships you mean what goes on in the bedroom that's fine. But if someone is trying to control someone elses life through their attraction to them that seems abusive and unhealthy to me. You can lose weight but you can't get over mental damage or conditioning that easily.

Speaking about contractual agreements, what about marriage? To me it's the same thing. There is no fundamental difference in the part of "consenting".

Plus, who mentioned mental damage? Who mentioned conditioning? I can't fault someone for having a partner that likes to wear a collar like a pet all day, not just in the bedroom.

Marriage is equal for both partners so that's not the same thing.

I don't really care if someone wears a collar but if they allow another person to control their life down to like what they do then that is just bad. I can't see how anyone could come out of that sane.

Prison is different because someone has committed a crime and therefore they get punished.

 

[ElPatron]

Marriage is equal for both partners so that's not the same thing.

21st century called, they said that their standards don't even apply to the whole world, let alone to the past few centuries.

I don't really care if someone wears a collar but if they allow another person to control their life down to like what they do then that is just bad. I can't see how anyone could come out of that sane.

Personal opinions.

Prison is different because someone has committed a crime and therefore they get punished.

Life called, she said she was not Black & White.

No, there is no difference between having the choice to give your life away and having the choice to give your life away, except that part where you can stop a relationship whenever you want.

 

[Reaper195]

Twilight bastardises the monsters that Werewolves and Vampires were. Fifty Shades has BDSM....so...Fifty Shades.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Marriage is equal for both partners so that's not the same thing.

21st century called, they said that their standards don't even apply to the whole world, let alone to the past few centuries.

I don't really care if someone wears a collar but if they allow another person to control their life down to like what they do then that is just bad. I can't see how anyone could come out of that sane.

Personal opinions.

Prison is different because someone has committed a crime and therefore they get punished.

Life called, she said she was not Black & White.

No, there is no difference between having the choice to give your life away and having the choice to give your life away, except that part where you can stop a relationship whenever you want.

So you don't think people go to prison because they commit crimes... I don't...what.

Just because something is an opinion doesn't mean it isn't right. I'm pretty sure any psychologist would agree with me that kind of relationship isn't healthy.

My dad and ex fiance were absolute violent control freaks and now I have PTSD and Anxiety disorder. It's called an informed opinion....:|

 

[tehweave]

50 shades. If I had to pick two terrible books, I may as well pick the one with ACTUAL sex in it.

 

[Alexi089]

Twilight, by miles.

Twilight was far more absorbent. 50 shades was like wiping with greaseproof paper. Some of it slipped off and wound up getting into the shag of the floor mat. I was not a happy bunny!

 

[ElPatron]

So you don't think people go to prison because they commit crimes... I don't...what.

Strawman fallacy.

Just because something is an opinion doesn't mean it isn't right. I'm pretty sure any psychologist would agree with me that kind of relationship isn't healthy.

Then get one to prove it. Don't expect me to just believe what people on the internet say.

My dad and ex fiance were absolute violent control freaks and now I have PTSD and Anxiety disorder. It's called an informed opinion....:|

And I got [censored] and I'm fine. Maybe it's called "your case doesn't apply to everyone because it wasn't consensual in the first place".

Censored because of the children.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So you don't think people go to prison because they commit crimes... I don't...what.

Strawman fallacy.

Just because something is an opinion doesn't mean it isn't right. I'm pretty sure any psychologist would agree with me that kind of relationship isn't healthy.

Then get one to prove it. Don't expect me to just believe what people on the internet say.

My dad and ex fiance were absolute violent control freaks and now I have PTSD and Anxiety disorder. It's called an informed opinion....:|

And I got [censored] and I'm fine. Maybe it's called "your case doesn't apply to everyone because it wasn't consensual in the first place".

Censored because of the children.

How is it a strawman? That's what you said. :|

I don't see how someone being a violent control freak would be any less mentally damaging if it was consensual...

 

[ElPatron]

How is it a strawman? That's what you said. :|

I never said people should not go to prison. You made that up and used it to undermine my statements. That's a strawman.

I don't see how someone being a violent control freak would be any less mentally damaging if it was consensual...

The problem here is your words and their context. When you place "violent control freak" together I get the vibe that the violence is psychological. No exactly. When you truly enjoy violence, it creates no psychological damage. For obvious reasons I will not ask anyone else to try to understand something they cannot comprehend.

"Control freak". Here's the thing - the point is that the parties involved get their share. You're not a goddamned control freak if your partner wishes to be dominated. It's about giving what the other wants. It's not what defines a person. Being a control freak *might* imply enjoyment in being top, but being a top does not imply anything about that person's personality.

Something being consensual changes E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G. Not only it implies that there is enjoyment, but it also gives everyone a chance to "give up" in case of uncomfortable situations.

Let's see this from another point of view:

I don't see how someone being a violent control freak would be any less mentally damaging if it was consensual...

Difference between regular sex and rape is weather every participant was able to consent or not. By your logic normal sex would cause mental scars just like rape.

 

[Hawkolf]

It really depends if we are talking about the whole Twilight saga or just the first book. Eclipse and Breaking Dawn are so horrid I hardly was able to read them through...
If it's just the first then Twilight without a doubt. Plot had certain potential in it. It's just that it was written badly. If it would consider Bella as a manipulative ***** she is the book wouldn't be all that bad but for me it really falls down when Bella is supposed to be this everyday, original girl.
50 Shades of Grey on is just piss poor writing. It was a fanfiction and it still is. That shit doesn't deserve to be in between covers, it belongs to the fanfiction.net. Horrific understanding of the main character is something absolutely horrific. Even compared to Bella (which Anastasia obviously used to be names after, you can clearly see that) Anastasia is a *****. I literally threw the book to the wall when she talked about her friends worrying as an Inquisition. She's the most blatantly stupid character since Esmeralda in Notre-Dame de Paris. And this book does the same thing with Grey that Twilight did with Bella. Christian Grey isn't this charming man that everyone should fucking wet their panties for. He's a manipulative stalker who blames and punishes people even about things that aren't in any way in that persons control. He is clearly a madman and housewives in America are crying why their hardworking man ain't more like him... It makes me sick.
And not to even mention the indications that if you're into BDSM you obviously have some childhood trauma.
And that toothbrush scene... I don't know about you but I puked a little about the thought.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Difference between regular sex and rape is weather every participant was able to consent or not. By your logic normal sex would cause mental scars just like rape.

That's not really what I'm saying though. I just can't see that it's mentally healthy to completely under the thumb of someone whether you want to or not.

A relationship being overly co-dependant is seen as damaging and I feel that this is a similar thing.

 

[York_Beckett]

I don't care which. I just imagine Nicolas Cage reading all the lines, and it becomes hilarious.

 

[BrotherRool]

Twilight all the way. It's fun to make fun of Twilight and in all honesty, whilst I used to tease people mercilessly I wouldn't mind reading them if I didn't have to. The powers were cool, the bad writing was a good laugh and it's heart was okay really. 50 Shades... I just wouldn't buy a book for that and it's less fun (unless your only purpose is to laugh at it) and more a little disgusting

 

[ElPatron]

A relationship being overly co-dependant is seen as damaging and I feel that this is a similar thing.

You're not being asked to join the movement or anything, I just think that it would be nice if half the people I happen to deal with didn't consider people like me the opposite of sane and healthy.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

A relationship being overly co-dependant is seen as damaging and I feel that this is a similar thing.

You're not being asked to join the movement or anything, I just think that it would be nice if half the people I happen to deal with didn't consider people like me the opposite of sane and healthy.

I don't have a problem with you doing it but it doesn't stop me from being worried about you.

I'm a bit like that.