Ubisoft engineer: "Console manufacturers" decide whitch parts of games to keep, pressure 30fps limit

[Strazdas]

Yes as I've said many times. These people do not see outside binary however so they aren't alluding to that.

generalization and assumption of everyone is a good way to start a reply.

Well there you go, tell your friends. They can finally have an actual name like the "Xbots" and all that.

I do. And Xbots are so 2004. seriously, your just trying to insult me now or something?

That would be mining for ammo as Ultratwinkie says, and I don't need to do that though I'm sure I'd find it if I tried, I'm not in that business. Though I do see your post in that link yes. Makes three statements, all incorrect. A theme of that place I'd wager.

Well you wanted to see what i think when visiting that place, i told you where you can see my posts.

Its about it apparently being a joke, but you talking serious to justify it.
You have to seriously have the world view that you should only own a PC to than make a joke about how you should only own a PC...not getting how its all a joke than. The "joke" would be more effective if it wasn't used maliciously often.

Ever heard of words such as "Satire", "Sarcasm"? Yes, there are some people that took the joke and are going around being assholes about it. There are assholes in all large groups.

The number defining multiplatform is a mean/medium? Why isn't it a simple addition?

ah, i thought you were going for the black and white analogy. Now it makes sense.

 

[Rozalia1]

generalization and assumption of everyone is a good way to start a reply.

What comes out of them doesn't tell me it'd be otherwise.

I do. And Xbots are so 2004. seriously, your just trying to insult me now or something?

That was in conjunction with my early statement. They want to have all the things the other "warriors" have like a holder company, than they can have a name to go along with it too.
I said tell your friends, I made no direct reference to yourself or anyone here for that matter.

Well you wanted to see what i think when visiting that place, i told you where you can see my posts.

I wanted to see your post in the topic you linked to, not every single post you've ever made.

Ever heard of words such as "Satire", "Sarcasm"? Yes, there are some people that took the joke and are going around being assholes about it. There are assholes in all large groups.

And what are the posters in the place you linked doing/being than? You're defending the places credibility but be it all jokes, or be it all hate in both instances it shoots it down.

ah, i thought you were going for the black and white analogy. Now it makes sense.

Oh so now its a problem, thought as much. Its all dandy being "superior", but not so much when the bigger fish make their presence.
Ah yes black and white would be another manner to put all that business, made it quite clear to you that I'm beyond that.

I asked you two questions, you can't derive anything about me from those two questions.

 

[black_knight1337]

Problem being of course that there is no one definition for that particular piece of lingo. Looking at "PC master race" its even defined as simply someone who builds their own PC, along with all the other definitions with varying meanings.
You're missing console along with that peasant, purposely clearly as this made up meaning of a made up term is not solely defined in one manner and you're trying very hard to peg it on me one way or the other.

Of course, for made up terms people will alter the meaning in whatever way they see fit. The actual definition, will naturally come from the sub-reddit itself. Being part of the 'master race' is defined as recognising that the PC is the superior platform as I quoted before. Being a 'peasant' is simply the opposite.

Do I now? Where is the evidence of this than? Where is me saying you need to spend £1000 to get 1080p on a PC? Oh wait it doesn't exist so why am even asking the question.

Here's a couple of quotes from you then;
"As for affordability, Blu Ray drive/windows/necessary accessories. They are just wrong, and I'm not going to accept something I know to be false."
"If you can afford a dedicated gaming rig than a console should be chump change"

In both of those you're saying console gaming is the cheaper alternative. If you believe that then, yep, you're a 'peasant'. PC gaming is the cheaper alternative, especially in the long run.

 

[Rozalia1]

Of course, for made up terms people will alter the meaning in whatever way they see fit. The actual definition, will naturally come from the sub-reddit itself. Being part of the 'master race' is defined as recognising that the PC is the superior platform as I quoted before. Being a 'peasant' is simply the opposite.

That sub-reddit can claim to have defined the true meaning to a term coined here on the Escapist? Who knew.
Please, Pcmasterace has as much credibility as a SDF article on how good a Sony game is (yeah I'm making those old references lately). At best they are a parody to laugh at, at worst worthy of contempt.

Multiplatform > PC. You talk of "superiority" as is often mentioned, but logically if we're playing your little game of hate I cannot be below yourself. See this is what I don't like, merely defending myself from someone claiming to be superior to me makes me come off as mean due to the ease of it, and the obvious fact of the matter.

Here's a couple of quotes from you then;
"As for affordability, Blu Ray drive/windows/necessary accessories. They are just wrong, and I'm not going to accept something I know to be false."
"If you can afford a dedicated gaming rig than a console should be chump change"

In both of those you're saying console gaming is the cheaper alternative. If you believe that then, yep, you're a 'peasant'. PC gaming is the cheaper alternative, especially in the long run.

Blu Ray drive/windows/necessary accessories and my use of the term "cut corner articles" should clue you in that the whole "you can build this better than next gen console at/below their price" to be false. The moment I see one of those articles and I see no windows, and no blu ray drive I know I don't even need to analyze it as its wrong.
The second one makes no mention of games, I was talking about a dedicated gaming rig...you know an actual one and not a cut corners mess (if you're going to build a PC than build it right).

So you are calling me something you have at least for yourself defined as being malicious? Now that isn't very nice.
Oh and if this was a set up for you to post links to those cut corner articles, please don't.

 

[Strazdas]

generalization and assumption of everyone is a good way to start a reply.

What comes out of them doesn't tell me it'd be otherwise.

so what comes out of your generalization and assumptions doesnot tell you it would be otherwise. talk about circular logic.

That was in conjunction with my early statement. They want to have all the things the other "warriors" have like a holder company, than they can have a name to go along with it too.
I said tell your friends, I made no direct reference to yourself or anyone here for that matter.

Ah, i hjave misunderstood you then. i thought when you said Xbots you were referring to Xbots (bot AI for counter strike that was popular circa 2004) thus implying my friends are bots (as in i dont have any).

I wanted to see your post in the topic you linked to, not every single post you've ever made.

And then later you said that you have read my posts in that thread, so mission acomplished?

And what are the posters in the place you linked doing/being than? You're defending the places credibility but be it all jokes, or be it all hate in both instances it shoots it down.

What are they doing? having fun most likely, else they wouldnt be posting there. i never claimed the source was somehow credible truth. even in my original post i expressed my doubts about its credibility and done so multiple times afterwards.

Oh so now its a problem, thought as much. Its all dandy being "superior", but not so much when the bigger fish make their presence.

erm what? i said that i have misunderstood your analogy and that i now understood when you explained and that somehow means i have a problem? i dont understand.

That sub-reddit can claim to have defined the true meaning to a term coined here on the Escapist?

The term PC Master Race was coined by Yatzee. This lead to creation of that subreddit. Peasantry was defined by the subreddit. At first yatzee used it as a dig, but later he has changed his opinion and actually prefered "PC elitists" [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/10350-The-Glorious-PC-Gaming-Master-Race]

you know an actual one and not a cut corners mess (if you're going to build a PC than build it right).

well if microsoft and sony can cut corners and make a mess why cant we do that when making a comparable build?

 

[black_knight1337]

Multiplatform > PC. You talk of "superiority" as is often mentioned, but logically if we're playing your little game of hate I cannot be below yourself. See this is what I don't like, merely defending myself from someone claiming to be superior to me makes me come off as mean due to the ease of it, and the obvious fact of the matter.

I'm not claiming to be superior to anyone. All I am saying is that the PC is the superior gaming platform. Nothing in that suggests that we think that you should only game on PC otherwise you're inferior. You'll have an inferior experience, yes, but that is all we claim.

So you are calling me something you have at least for yourself defined as being malicious? Now that isn't very nice.

No, there's nothing malicious about it at all. Apologies if you feel that way though, it was never intended at all.

Oh and if this was a set up for you to post links to those cut corner articles, please don't.

Want a no corners cut approach? okay.

Before I start, this is all going to be using Australian pricing so the actual numbers will vary depending on where you are however the comparison should stay about the same.

First up is the hardware you need to get started. To make this a fair comparison the only assumption I'll make is that the furniture required is already available. For a high end gaming PC that contains everything you could want and more, you're looking at $1,358.23 [http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/fzbgCJ]. For a PS4 you're looking at $448 [https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-164838-PlayStation-4-Console-preowned-PlayStation-4] just for the console and a controller. Then, you also need to add on the cost of a good tv that can take advantage of the hardware you're looking at $598 [https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-entertainment/hd-televisions/sony/sony-kdl32w700b-32-full-hd-smart-led-lcd-tv/535868/]. So the total cost for the initial hardware for the PS4 comes to $1,046. An initial saving of $312.23 for the PS4.

Next up is the games, starting with retail. Using the recent release of Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor as an example, we have the PC version coming in at $79.95 [https://ebgames.com.au/pc-165248-Middle-Earth-Shadow-of-Mordor-PC] and the PS4 version coming in at $99.95 [https://ebgames.com.au/ps4-164730-Middle-Earth-Shadow-of-Mordor-PlayStation-4]. A saving of $20 for the PC.

Then there's the digital market. Using the same game (although a bundled version as that's all that's available on PSN) we have the PS4 version coming in at $137.95 [https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-au/games/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-premium-edition/cid=EP1018-CUSA00053_00-SOMGOLDEDITION00?smcid=pdc:au-endc-ps3-services-detail:buy%20now::null] but on the PC the same bundle only costs $74.98 [http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/au/en/pc/games/action/middle-earth-shadow-mordor-and-season-pass/] which can then be taken down to only $59.98 if you use the code on the front page. That ends up being a saving of $77.97 on PC.

Lastly we've got the recurring costs. Namely PS+ on the PS4 and hardware upgrades on the PC. For PS+ we have a yearly cost of $69.95 and on PC, seeing as we'll only need to upgrade the cpu, motherboard and gpu, a cost of $537 every 5 years.

Now, to translate all of that into the cost per generation as, at the end of the day, that is what matters. Going by previous generations we're likely to see this generation last about 8 years and let's assume that for each of those years you'll purchase 5 retail games, and 5 digital games. Now for the math;

PS4:
-Initial cost = $1,046
-Retail games = 8 x 5 x 99.95 = $3,998
-Digital games = 8 x 5 x 137.95 = $5,518
-PS+ = 8 x 69.95 = $559.60
Total = $11,121.60

PC:
-Initial cost = $1,358.23
-Retail games = 8 x 5 x 79.95 = $3,198
-Digital games = 8 x 5 x 59.98 = $2,399.20
-Upgrades = $537
Total = $7,492.43

Already a significant difference of $3,629.17 in favour of the PC. This doesn't even consider the significant discounts you can get from both sales and bundles.

 

[Rozalia1]

so what comes out of your generalization and assumptions doesnot tell you it would be otherwise. talk about circular logic.

What are they doing? having fun most likely, else they wouldnt be posting there. i never claimed the source was somehow credible truth. even in my original post i expressed my doubts about its credibility and done so multiple times afterwards.

You keep defending their credibility, don't deny it when you're here asking the hard hitting question of why wouldn't a reveal like that not appear on a place like Pcmasterace.
Is Hate == Fun? Well depends on how you see it so some would say you might be correct there.

The term PC Master Race was coined by Yatzee. This lead to creation of that subreddit. Peasantry was defined by the subreddit. At first yatzee used it as a dig, but later he has changed his opinion and actually prefered "PC elitists"

Console peasant is also in Yahtzee's video, it was not invented by Pcmasterace.

erm what? i said that i have misunderstood your analogy and that i now understood when you explained and that somehow means i have a problem? i dont understand.

The superiority of PC is apparently not in doubt, but when it comes to the clear superiority of multiplatform "well it ain't so black and white man".

well if microsoft and sony can cut corners and make a mess why cant we do that when making a comparable build?

Building a PC shouldn't be about going "Ha take that Sony". Reminds me of a couple of folk I've heard talk up the performance of PC and when asked if they have PCs capable of that...they don't. They still talk like that performance is available to them of course as deviating from the common barbs of the platform war would require some creativity.

I'm not claiming to be superior to anyone. All I am saying is that the PC is the superior gaming platform. Nothing in that suggests that we think that you should only game on PC otherwise you're inferior. You'll have an inferior experience, yes, but that is all we claim.

Multiplatform > PC. You have the inferior experience not me.

No, there's nothing malicious about it at all. Apologies if you feel that way though, it was never intended at all.

You directly called me a peasant which as we're going by the "true" definition of Pcmasterace is obviously used with malice behind it. So it sure sounded like it.

Want a no corners cut approach? okay.

Added the cost of the TV which I've seen used in response to people including a monitor for PC gaming...I did not so that is a black mark against you immediately. The difference between the two is if you're going to be playing games at 120 frames and certain resolutions than you likely will require buying a better monitor. A TV, people will have those. I alone have two 40+ inch TVs in my place (really I should go full hog and get something as large as I can).

Those figures are all kinds of off. Why are over full price digital titles included in that is beyond that. I tend to buy my titles at Amazon as do a lot of people. The mere existence of a game at 59.99 digitally shouldn't count if most people are going to be buying it at 39.99 (if we're talking release).

PS+ I had before they made it "mandatory", I have a PS3, PS4, and Vita so I get the most out of it.

Anyhow we weren't talking games so the big conclusion at the end is meaningless. I didn't say buying games on consoles was cheaper, merely that certain games I play (and games I will play) are non existent on PC.
The majority of games I play just so happen to be exclusives (yes even PC exclusives are included in that, I love Paradox games), and I'm a multiplatform guy who clearly isn't bothered by money...so yeah these "hard hitting" points of yours are hitting dead air.

 

[black_knight1337]

Multiplatform > PC. You have the inferior experience not me.

PC provides the single best gaming experience out of the available platforms. That's all we've been saying. Giving in to the hostage situation that is exclusivity has nothing to do with what platform provides the best experience.

You directly called me a peasant which as we're going by the "true" definition of Pcmasterace is obviously used with malice behind it. So it sure sounded like it.

So giving a name to someone (a name which has always been used as a joke) that doesn't recognise that PC is factually the superior platform is malicious? That's a new one.

Added the cost of the TV which I've seen used in response to people including a monitor for PC gaming...I did not so that is a black mark against you immediately. The difference between the two is if you're going to be playing games at 120 frames and certain resolutions than you likely will require buying a better monitor. A TV, people will have those. I alone have two 40+ inch TVs in my place (really I should go full hog and get something as large as I can).

You can say that everyone owns a 1080p tv but at the same time I can argue that everyone has a PC. If I were to do that I could easily knock off ~$500 from that build, more depending on the age of their system. Including everything removes the potential for any bias that could occur there.

Those figures are all kinds of off. Why are over full price digital titles included in that is beyond that. I tend to buy my titles at Amazon as do a lot of people. The mere existence of a game at 59.99 digitally shouldn't count if most people are going to be buying it at 39.99 (if we're talking release).

As I said, the prices are based off of what is available here in Australia. And as far as I know, the only place to buy digital PS4 games here is via the Playstation Store.

 

[DoPo]

Added the cost of the TV which I've seen used in response to people including a monitor for PC gaming...I did not so that is a black mark against you immediately. The difference between the two is if you're going to be playing games at 120 frames and certain resolutions than you likely will require buying a better monitor. A TV, people will have those. I alone have two 40+ inch TVs in my place (really I should go full hog and get something as large as I can).

I don't have a single TV in my house. If you are going to assume "it's there", then in that case the total cost of my gaming PC would amount to the price of my video card, as that's the only difference between my "normal" PC and a gaming one. I guess, you could also add the small difference prices for a mouse but it's going to be negligible.

 

[Rozalia1]

PC provides the single best gaming experience out of the available platforms. That's all we've been saying. Giving in to the hostage situation that is exclusivity has nothing to do with what platform provides the best experience.

"But, but, but" is what I'm hearing there as you keep avoiding the heart of the matter. We're talking superiority here as you so want to and Multiplatform > PC is as Mr Hart would say, fact. You apparently have access to more games and a better experience than me, so why are you dancing around and giving me excuses by trying to make this about the "best experience" (which is pointless as you know I am a PC gamer too) and discounting exclusives. What about handhelds, what is your answer to those? Laptop? Got that too.

Hostage situation? That twaddle is very common on here and I've responded to it enough, no its not a hostage situation. All those Japanese devs that make a lot of the exclusives I play are not hostages, they choose to put their game on a Nintendo/Sony platform.

Oh and yes I've heard the whole "well if everyone didn't "give in to the hostage taking" than they'd be no exclusives as than they'd all be on PC already. Its a garbage argument (especially as lovely handhelds exist), and I am not going to give up the large majority of games I play simply so some platform wars guys on the internet can get all giddy that their little war is going better.

So giving a name to someone (a name which has always been used as a joke) that doesn't recognise that PC is factually the superior platform is malicious? That's a new one.

The guys on there are using it maliciously and you're telling me they hold the key to the one true meaning. If you believe that than yes when you use it, it will come off as malicious to me yes (not to mention you directly called me it).

You can say that everyone owns a 1080p tv but at the same time I can argue that everyone has a PC. If I were to do that I could easily knock off ~$500 from that build, more depending on the age of their system. Including everything removes the potential for any bias that could occur there.

The "common" PC ain't going to have much of use for a proper build (we're not talking cut corners here), but honestly I'm not going to be discussing this all with you (already indulged you enough). I told you I didn't want no cut corners articles because I know the tendencies of PC guys to jump at the chance to post all their links, and all the stuff they read on places like Pcmasterace.
Its been done a million times, its not over and I hate the gimmick. Its simply not relevant to anything, I said cut corners was wrong so why you'd counter that with talking about more expensive PCs is beyond me, it doesn't in anyway matter.

As I said, the prices are based off of what is available here in Australia. And as far as I know, the only place to buy digital PS4 games here is via the Playstation Store.

Why don't you use Russia or some place like that so you can tip further towards the point you want to make while at it.

I don't have a single TV in my house. If you are going to assume "it's there", then in that case the total cost of my gaming PC would amount to the price of my video card, as that's the only difference between my "normal" PC and a gaming one. I guess, you could also add the small difference prices for a mouse but it's going to be negligible.

As I said I wasn't posting comparisons on price, neither did I state I'd include the price of the monitor (merely that if you do you have more reason to, as while yes you are correct not everyone will have a HD TV. If they are planning on buying a platform they are far more likely to own a HD TV than a proper "gaming" monitor).

Its ultimately irrelevant, I said cut corners was wrong. No one has disproved that and its doubtful (merely because I have acknowledge its possible) anyone can.

 

[black_knight1337]

"But, but, but" is what I'm hearing there as you keep avoiding the heart of the matter. We're talking superiority here as you so want to and Multiplatform > PC is as Mr Hart would say, fact. You apparently have access to more games and a better experience than me, so why are you dancing around and giving me excuses by trying to make this about the "best experience" (which is pointless as you know I am a PC gamer too) and discounting exclusives. What about handhelds, what is your answer to those? Laptop? Got that too.

Feel free to continue missing the point entirely. No-one is arguing that using only PC is better than having all platforms, what is being argued is the of the platforms, PC is the best one.

Hostage situation? That twaddle is very common on here and I've responded to it enough, no its not a hostage situation. All those Japanese devs that make a lot of the exclusives I play are not hostages, they choose to put their game on a Nintendo/Sony platform.

Oh and yes I've heard the whole "well if everyone didn't "give in to the hostage taking" than they'd be no exclusives as than they'd all be on PC already. Its a garbage argument (especially as lovely handhelds exist), and I am not going to give up the large majority of games I play simply so some platform wars guys on the internet can get all giddy that their little war is going better.

Japanese devs and mobile gaming is another thing entirely. The 'hostage situation' is more referring to home consoles, namely the PS4, XB1 and WiiU. I think we can all agree that the best possible situation for consumers is for there to be a single platform which has all the games available to it. The way the current consoles are is that they rely on exclusivity to stay successful. Remove those exclusives and we'll eventually end up with a single open gaming platform that will make everyone happy.

The guys on there are using it maliciously and you're telling me they hold the key to the one true meaning. If you believe that than yes when you use it, it will come off as malicious to me yes (not to mention you directly called me it).

It's a small minority that uses it maliciously. All large groups will end up having assholes, it's unavoidable but they don't represent the group as a whole.

The "common" PC ain't going to have much of use for a proper build (we're not talking cut corners here), but honestly I'm not going to be discussing this all with you (already indulged you enough). I told you I didn't want no cut corners articles because I know the tendencies of PC guys to jump at the chance to post all their links, and all the stuff they read on places like Pcmasterace.

And that's exactly why I never used pre-existing hardware in it all. You wanted no cut corners, I gave you no cut corners. Even went beyond that and threw in extras that a lot of people would never even need.

Why don't you use Russia or some place like that so you can tip further towards the point you want to make while at it.

Considering costs are much higher here for everything PC I can't see how that at all would be weighted in my favour. It's quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Hostage situation? That twaddle is very common on here and I've responded to it enough, no its not a hostage situation. All those Japanese devs that make a lot of the exclusives I play are not hostages, they choose to put their game on a Nintendo/Sony platform.

You're missing the context of who the metaphorical "hostage" is here; the "hostage" is the game relative to the consumer, not the developer. Why? Because for the consumer exclusivity is another potential cost to pay.

Which isn't to say that platform selection is unimportant, but in a market this multiplatform-friendly, exclusivity shouldn't be assumed to be GOOD thing, let alone treating exclusivity as a benefit for the market rather than just one producer. Especially where there's no technical or functional barrier for exclusivity.

Dissimilarity (uniqueness) in function is what justifies handhelds; their portability and convenience makes up for their lack of raw performance and the games made for them tend to emphasize that. But given how similar the Xbone and PS4 are TECHNICALLY to PC there's literally NO reason for console exclusivity on those platforms except as a means of consumer arm-twisting.

So you will have to forgive me if I find arguing multiplatform to be superior to PC while dismissing the current pleas for console exclusivity as "twaddle" a bit Cognitive Dissonant.

Fact is, the era where consoles pushed technical advancement over PC is LONG past us.

The market is evolving, and right now, consoles need to justify their existence more than ever.
They need to be priced more competitively, and offer greater convenience.

But they really aren't.

Right now, I have ZERO reason to pick up a PS4 or Xbone. My 2 year old laptop outperforms both of them even now, gives me a much larger degree of freedom in utility...and the sad part is that it barely cost 1000 bucks new.
(I paid much less, due to a university program and a grant, but that's my smart shopping more than competitive pricing)

Even willingly overpaying for hardware, I'm still getting a better deal in the long run than either console offers right now, and each year that I use my laptop for gaming, is another year the initial price gap lessens, since I don't have to pay the premiums on games and services console owners do.
(also, sale events on Steam, GoG etc offer incredible savings potential even in the same year a game releases; and I never have to pay for multiplayer, especially not Peer-to-Peer)

And I'm not damning the idea of consoles like so many are now; I -LIKE- consoles as a concept. I grew up with consoles. But when PC is doing their job better per-capita (or at very little added cost if you're smart) in PRACTICE, it tells me they aren't emphasizing their strengths as much as they could be.

 

[Rozalia1]

Feel free to continue missing the point entirely. No-one is arguing that using only PC is better than having all platforms, what is being argued is the of the platforms, PC is the best one.

That is in doubt however, you have my tastes for example and the PC cannot be the best experience simply by virtue of the rest having exclusives which I'd not be for sacrificing. You seem to think graphics or frames is what translates to enjoyment, but its the games.
Hey now, you like calling people inferior (or having an inferior experience whatever way you dress it), so hey you reap what you sow and all that.

Japanese devs and mobile gaming is another thing entirely. The 'hostage situation' is more referring to home consoles, namely the PS4, XB1 and WiiU. I think we can all agree that the best possible situation for consumers is for there to be a single platform which has all the games available to it. The way the current consoles are is that they rely on exclusivity to stay successful. Remove those exclusives and we'll eventually end up with a single open gaming platform that will make everyone happy.

Okay put everything on the Wii U than...oh wait you'd not want that. Excuse yourself however you like (I already know your response), but its clear why you'd not want it.
What you miss is by the existence of the holder companies they generate more money and games to be made. Everyone always concentrates on negatives and talk fantasy, but they never see the positives and reality.

It's a small minority that uses it maliciously. All large groups will end up having assholes, it's unavoidable but they don't represent the group as a whole.

You say that when what was being referred to was a Pcmasterace linked topic where the large majority of posters there were showing their ugly colours.

And that's exactly why I never used pre-existing hardware in it all. You wanted no cut corners, I gave you no cut corners. Even went beyond that and threw in extras that a lot of people would never even need.

Affordability was the word used. Cut corners is what is brought up as they are at a similar price point. Bringing up higher tier machines is pointless. You can argue what you were trying to get across was game prices, but I never even mentioned that, nor do I care for the reasons mentioned.

Considering costs are much higher here for everything PC I can't see how that at all would be weighted in my favour. It's quite the opposite in fact.

I threw a random-ish country out granted...well that could have its own thread honestly. I don't want to discuss that matter as it'd swallow everything else up.

You're missing the context of who the metaphorical "hostage" is here; the "hostage" is the game relative to the consumer, not the developer. Why? Because for the consumer exclusivity is another potential cost to pay.

Which isn't to say that platform selection is unimportant, but in a market this multiplatform-friendly, exclusivity shouldn't be assumed to be GOOD thing, let alone treating exclusivity as a benefit for the market rather than just one producer. Especially where there's no technical or functional barrier for exclusivity.

What is always missed is many of those exclusives wouldn't have been made without the holder companies and not just their own games, third parties who also regularly make exclusives would be tapping out very quickly if suddenly the platform holders (discount Microsoft) weren't present. There is more money, interest, and consumers in the system with the holder companies involved.

Dissimilarity (uniqueness) in function is what justifies handhelds; their portability and convenience makes up for their lack of raw performance and the games made for them tend to emphasize that. But given how similar the Xbone and PS4 are TECHNICALLY to PC there's literally NO reason for console exclusivity on those platforms except as a means of consumer arm-twisting.

It doesn't matter what you think should be, it is what is that matters. Until those dreams become reality this talk you're speaking will continue to be meaningless. Its only been like a year in the current generation, don't keep expecting everything at once.

So you will have to forgive me if I find arguing multiplatform to be superior to PC while dismissing the current pleas for console exclusivity as "twaddle" a bit Cognitive Dissonant.

Maybe I'm not reading that bit right as I'm unsure what the point of that is... oh well. Multiplatform is better, fact. You could take out the consoles if you really want I'd still have the handhelds so it'd be the same story regardless.
And hey I'm not the guy who plays the superiority game. I do hold the best hand but I only play it if someone challenges me to a game.

Fact is, the era where consoles pushed technical advancement over PC is LONG past us.

Something I've tried to get across to the PC only gamers who have argued to me in the past that consoles should be £1000 behemoths.

Right now, I have ZERO reason to pick up a PS4 or Xbone. My 2 year old laptop outperforms both of them even now, gives me a much larger degree of freedom in utility...and the sad part is that it barely cost 1000 bucks new.

Well you can speak for yourself as you have that right. You can't speak for others however.

 

[Strazdas]

You keep defending their credibility, don't deny it when you're here asking the hard hitting question of why wouldn't a reveal like that not appear on a place like Pcmasterace.
Is Hate == Fun? Well depends on how you see it so some would say you might be correct there.

Once again your representing my point. i asked if you think it was possible for the first leak to be in that forum, and you said that yes, it was.
Also if you think that this subreddit is dedicated to hate on somone you clearly do not understand it and thus shouldnt make baseless assumptions.

Console peasant is also in Yahtzee's video, it was not invented by Pcmasterace.

I never said it was invented, i said it was defined.

The superiority of PC is apparently not in doubt, but when it comes to the clear superiority of multiplatform "well it ain't so black and white man".

so what you meant is superiority of multiplat? then you are wrong. if we assume that PC is superior and consoles are inferior, then multiplay would be inferior to pure PC because if you mix some crap in your food so you get a bit of both its going to ruin the food and make it worse than if it was just food without crap.

Building a PC shouldn't be about going "Ha take that Sony". Reminds me of a couple of folk I've heard talk up the performance of PC and when asked if they have PCs capable of that...they don't. They still talk like that performance is available to them of course as deviating from the common barbs of the platform war would require some creativity.

If your goal is to build a PC for the same price as a console and have the same or better performance it most certainly are about "Ha take that consoles". With PC you can choose (and many do) much better parts and performance. with consoles you are stuck with the "cut corners" approach that MS and SOny employed in this generation consoles.

And PC superiority is much more than graphical performance.

As I said I wasn't posting comparisons on price, neither did I state I'd include the price of the monitor (merely that if you do you have more reason to, as while yes you are correct not everyone will have a HD TV. If they are planning on buying a platform they are far more likely to own a HD TV than a proper "gaming" monitor).

your forgetting that you can use your TV as you monitor just as easily. if you already have a TV fit for gaming, you can easily use it as a monitor. So if you already have a TV you dont need to buy a monitor at all. many people chose to, because monitors are often superior to TVs they have, however if you want equal experience you can easily use your TV as well.

What is always missed is many of those exclusives wouldn't have been made without the holder companies and not just their own games, third parties who also regularly make exclusives would be tapping out very quickly if suddenly the platform holders (discount Microsoft) weren't present. There is more money, interest, and consumers in the system with the holder companies involved./quote]
thats bullshit. the game would still be made and have earned profit whether it was owned by a console owner or not. the only games that would fit this is the ones that are unprofitable but still keep getting supported due to console owners keeping it alive (like the "PSN home" that got closed recently). Somone as good as Naughty Dog will have people supporting them whether they own a console or not.

Its only been like a year in the current generation, don't keep expecting everything at once.

this generation is not a new thing. the architecture was used for over 2 decades now. if the developers havent learned to use it better in 2 decades they wont in next 2 years either.

 

[black_knight1337]

That is in doubt however, you have my tastes for example and the PC cannot be the best experience simply by virtue of the rest having exclusives which I'd not be for sacrificing. You seem to think graphics or frames is what translates to enjoyment, but its the games.
Hey now, you like calling people inferior (or having an inferior experience whatever way you dress it), so hey you reap what you sow and all that.

At no point have I ever called anyone inferior. What I called inferior was a piece of hardware which is just an outright fact. And the advantages of PC go much farther than just graphics. There's entire genres full of exclusives, compatibility that goes back to when games were first made, the ability to tailor games to your liking (modding), the flexibility of being able to choose whatever input device you want, it's much more affordable, heaps of free services that enhance your experience, being able to multitask easily etc. A small number of exclusives are all consoles have going for them at this point.

Okay put everything on the Wii U than...oh wait you'd not want that. Excuse yourself however you like (I already know your response), but its clear why you'd not want it.
What you miss is by the existence of the holder companies they generate more money and games to be made. Everyone always concentrates on negatives and talk fantasy, but they never see the positives and reality.

There's technical limitations in doing that. Control schemes for one, along with just how weak that hardware actually is. PC would be the natural choice thanks to it's versatility. That being said, if the Wii U became the only gaming platform, then yes, I would use it.

And how would it differ if it was all on a single platform? The consoles themselves make very little back, the big earner is the licensing fees. The exact same stuff that Valve does with Steam, or CDP does with GOG. What little they would lose from the switch would be more than made up for by the customers they would gain.

Affordability was the word used.

And part of that affordability includes the costs of operating the system. You can't make an informed decision without including those factors.

What is always missed is many of those exclusives wouldn't have been made without the holder companies and not just their own games, third parties who also regularly make exclusives would be tapping out very quickly if suddenly the platform holders (discount Microsoft) weren't present. There is more money, interest, and consumers in the system with the holder companies involved.

The thing is, none of that would matter if all games were on a single platform. Developers like Naughty Dog will be bringing their games to a larger audience and they would generate more income because of that.

 

[Rozalia1]

Once again your representing my point. i asked if you think it was possible for the first leak to be in that forum, and you said that yes, it was.
Also if you think that this subreddit is dedicated to hate on somone you clearly do not understand it and thus shouldnt make baseless assumptions.

How are the posters in that little topic carrying themselves? They being all very calm or jumping at absurd notions due to their hate towards pieces of plastic.

I never said it was invented, i said it was defined.

What else they define, PC? That is a lot of stock you're putting in them.

so what you meant is superiority of multiplat? then you are wrong. if we assume that PC is superior and consoles are inferior, then multiplay would be inferior to pure PC because if you mix some crap in your food so you get a bit of both its going to ruin the food and make it worse than if it was just food without crap.

And thank you for proving my point and delivering the killing blow to yourself, you'd danced around it enough so I thought you weren't going to do it, but you did. Superiority of PC? Not in doubt to you. Superiority of multiplatform over PC..."well you see *excuses*".

If your goal is to build a PC for the same price as a console and have the same or better performance it most certainly are about "Ha take that consoles". With PC you can choose (and many do) much better parts and performance. with consoles you are stuck with the "cut corners" approach that MS and SOny employed in this generation consoles.

And PC superiority is much more than graphical performance.

And what is the point in that? Why can't they spend the extra 200 to make it better? Logically I don't see why anyone would ever go for a cut corners, it'll often not have windows so less games, and even more often not have a Blu Ray drive (which whatever you think is still important to some folk).

Lets not forget price what with that non existent copy of Atelier (and yes I do love using that as an example, for many reasons). And freedom of movement as I can go to a friends and just lug my PC with me everytime unlike that immobile Vita.
You really shouldn't be stating PC superiority when trying to hide from multiplatform superiority but whatever mistakes make this quicker for me anyway.

your forgetting that you can use your TV as you monitor just as easily. if you already have a TV fit for gaming, you can easily use it as a monitor. So if you already have a TV you dont need to buy a monitor at all. many people chose to, because monitors are often superior to TVs they have, however if you want equal experience you can easily use your TV as well.

Thanks for adding in, but once again I never mentioned they should include a monitor in the bloody thing...merely what you've just said.

this generation is not a new thing. the architecture was used for over 2 decades now. if the developers havent learned to use it better in 2 decades they wont in next 2 years either.

And you mistook that for talk of optimisation. No I was talking about the games, you know the important stuff that primarily sells a console.
Are those games "optimised" or not is quite irrelevant though I don't doubt its possible. Both the PS4 and Xbox One do have some not exactly non standard hardware in them.

At no point have I ever called anyone inferior. What I called inferior was a piece of hardware which is just an outright fact. And the advantages of PC go much farther than just graphics. There's entire genres full of exclusives, compatibility that goes back to when games were first made, the ability to tailor games to your liking (modding), the flexibility of being able to choose whatever input device you want, it's much more affordable, heaps of free services that enhance your experience, being able to multitask easily etc. A small number of exclusives are all consoles have going for them at this point.

Than why did you call me a peasant while stating that a place that does use it maliously owns the key to its one true definition? Either you concede you were wrong and they don't hold the one true meaning, or you concede you were just rude to me. One or the other.

Yes which I play many of (Paradox games are pretty awesome for one), merely another point to the superiority of Multiplatform.

Don't get me started on Emulation, there must be over a dozen pages over the forum dealing in that.
People do love playing the "everything in the future will be awesome if it was just PC"...but fail to take note of what that'd mean. I'm sure EA and Valve will just love the future you want. It always amused me that people want to be rid of lions that they don't even go near, but want a world where they'll be locked up with a different set of lions.

There's technical limitations in doing that. Control schemes for one, along with just how weak that hardware actually is. PC would be the natural choice thanks to it's versatility.

And how would it differ if it was all on a single platform? The consoles themselves make very little back, the big earner is the licensing fees. The exact same stuff that Valve does with Steam, or CDP does with GOG. What little they would lose from the switch would be more than made up for by the customers they would gain.

Well its all about the games right as you want those exclusives. Well there would be no more exclusives that is for sure if every game was on the Wii U. Weak hardware, mate one of my favourite games is from 1994 you don't need a behemoth to enjoy something.

You talking about the holder companies? You seriously think they'd make more on their exclusives on Steam (where they'd have to be the ones paying fees lets not forget, something they don't do on their own), than on having their exclusives on their platform and and having all the tributes everyone else has to pay them.

And part of that affordability includes the costs of operating the system. You can't make an informed decision without including those factors.

Sometimes it does, Blu Ray never.

The thing is, none of that would matter if all games were on a single platform. Developers like Naughty Dog will be bringing their games to a larger audience and they would generate more income because of that.

How'd you know Naughty Dog would even be active today? They'd not have the cash or marketing Sony has available to them. They'd likely not have the lenient timeframes for their big titles either.
Imaging a world that was simply PC is not as simple as shifting everything not on PC over to PC, doesn't work like that. Nor is a future of just PC better as far as I see it though I have to state that it is possible what you think could be so...could be. Do not mistake me having the good sense to not be absolute over something uncertain to mean I agree with you as you've done previously.

 

[black_knight1337]

Than why did you call me a peasant while stating that a place that does use it maliciously owns the key to its one true definition? Either you concede you were wrong and they don't hold the one true meaning, or you concede you were just rude to me. One or the other.

As I said before, any large community will have some assholes. They don't represent the views of the community as a whole, nor do they represent my own views. Read the side bar, that's where the community's views as a whole are. I'll quote it again for you, "You don't need a top-of-the-line gaming PC to be a member of the Master Race. You just have to recognize that PC is objectively superior to consoles in every way possible". That is what separates people being referred to as 'peasants' or part of the 'master race'.

Well its all about the games right as you want those exclusives. Well there would be no more exclusives that is for sure if every game was on the Wii U. Weak hardware, mate one of my favourite games is from 1994 you don't need a behemoth to enjoy something.

So to fit your version of a single gaming platform you'd remove (or at least severely cripple) entire genres along with setting us back in terms of graphical fidelity, physics, ai etc. That's why PC would be the natural choice. The exclusives on consoles can be brought to PC without sacrificing anything.

Sometimes it does, Blu Ray never.

Even Blu Ray does. There's no point having it if you're not going to buy the discs to use it.

People do love playing the "everything in the future will be awesome if it was just PC"...but fail to take note of what that'd mean. I'm sure EA and Valve will just love the future you want. It always amused me that people want to be rid of lions that they don't even go near, but want a world where they'll be locked up with a different set of lions.

You talking about the holder companies? You seriously think they'd make more on their exclusives on Steam (where they'd have to be the ones paying fees lets not forget, something they don't do on their own), than on having their exclusives on their platform and and having all the tributes everyone else has to pay them.

How'd you know Naughty Dog would even be active today? They'd not have the cash or marketing Sony has available to them. They'd likely not have the lenient timeframes for their big titles either.
Imaging a world that was simply PC is not as simple as shifting everything not on PC over to PC, doesn't work like that. Nor is a future of just PC better as far as I see it though I have to state that it is possible what you think could be so...could be. Do not mistake me having the good sense to not be absolute over something uncertain to mean I agree with you as you've done previously.

You're making a pretty big assumption there. I don't want to see Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft gone completely, I want a scenario where it's win-win for everyone involved. I'd much rather see them bring their services (minus the subscription fees) along with the games on them to PC. I brought up Steam and GOG because that is what I see them doing. Setting up alternative services that would host all of their games. They'll keep their cut from all the games and they'll open up their games to users who, in the current market, wouldn't have even considered buying their games. The money they lose in some areas will be made up for in others. And then at the same time all gamers will have access to all games. How is that anything but a good thing?

 

[Rozalia1]

As I said before, any large community will have some assholes. They don't represent the views of the community as a whole, nor do they represent my own views. Read the side bar, that's where the community's views as a whole are. I'll quote it again for you, "You don't need a top-of-the-line gaming PC to be a member of the Master Race. You just have to recognize that PC is objectively superior to consoles in every way possible". That is what separates people being referred to as 'peasants' or part of the 'master race'.

Its impossible to get it across seemingly so I'll be discontinuing it. Sorry I don't see them as a bastion of class and fairness.

So to fit your version of a single gaming platform you'd remove (or at least severely cripple) entire genres along with setting us back in terms of graphical fidelity, physics, ai etc. That's why PC would be the natural choice. The exclusives on consoles can be brought to PC without sacrificing anything.

Me? What are you on about, you're the one talking about scrapping multiple platforms to put it all on one. I'm multiplatform mate, I don't need to dream up such fantasies. Its obvious to anyone that the Wii U was mentioned to reveal your hypocrisy. You want one single platform to have all the games in one place, but only if its PC because *insert excuses*.
But I doubt you can even keep that straight, what of Macs? Heck why are you arguing for windows, why not linux?

Can they now? How big are JRPGs on PC to use an example. You talk of performance, but what you miss is they'll be giving up their base for no reason. To those companies slapping their game on PC isn't some mighty boon like you believe. Take any of them that release yearly Nintendo/Sony platform exclusives (especially the handhelds) and have them make PC exclusives. Their already meager sales will only be further reduced and they'll be out of business quick enough.

Even Blu Ray does. There's no point having it if you're not going to buy the discs to use it.

If you're going to compare PC to something that has a Blu Ray drive than the PC better have a Blu Drive also, simple as that. You can quote the 92% article that I've already spent a session discrediting if you like, it'll mean nothing.

You're making a pretty big assumption there. I don't want to see Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft gone completely, I want a scenario where it's win-win for everyone involved. I'd much rather see them bring their services (minus the subscription fees) along with the games on them to PC. I brought up Steam and GOG because that is what I see them doing. Setting up alternative services that would host all of their games. They'll keep their cut from all the games and they'll open up their games to users who, in the current market, wouldn't have even considered buying their games. The money they lose in some areas will be made up for in others. And then at the same time all gamers will have access to all games. How is that anything but a good thing?

The fact they'll be less money if the holder companies weren't involved is an assumption? Okay than.
As for what I predict in counter to your own...I am not absolute. I don't claim to claim X is what will transpire, I leave room. You however have seen no need to, it'll all be some happy fantasy land where we're have endless candy.

So one platform for all gamers...but they'll have download and install half a dozen services? People moan about having to have 2 services today, I'd like to see how they'd talk if they had to have much more than that. Now what is the other side of the coin, you don't consider that that same doubt however.

If we go by the rules of your fantasy than how can it not be a good thing, after all you've dreamed it up as only possibly being good. If we talk reality it ain't going to work all dandy like that (though it could, just like politics in my country could suddenly improve). All I see is someone who wants to be locked up with lions, and wants to jump into shark infested waters, and *insert something else animal related*.

 

[black_knight1337]

Me? What are you on about, you're the one talking about scrapping multiple platforms to put it all on one. I'm multiplatform mate, I don't need to dream up such fantasies. Its obvious to anyone that the Wii U was mentioned to reveal your hypocrisy. You want one single platform to have all the games in one place, but only if its PC because *insert excuses*.

I'm not suggesting PC because it's my platform of choice, I suggest it because it's the only platform that is versatile enough to have any game on it without sacrifices.

Can they now? How big are JRPGs on PC to use an example. You talk of performance, but what you miss is they'll be giving up their base for no reason. To those companies slapping their game on PC isn't some mighty boon like you believe. Take any of them that release yearly Nintendo/Sony platform exclusives (especially the handhelds) and have them make PC exclusives. Their already meager sales will only be further reduced and they'll be out of business quick enough.

As I said before, handhelds are a different beast entirely from the purpose of the system to the fundamental designs of the games on them. And you're really missing the point of having a single platform for everyone to game on. No-one will be losing their fan base because their fan base would be migrating with them. They'll end up gaining more fans because their games are going to be exposed to a larger audience.

The fact they'll be less money if the holder companies weren't involved is an assumption? Okay than.

No, your assumption that I wanted Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo gone completely.

So one platform for all gamers...but they'll have download and install half a dozen services? People moan about having to have 2 services today, I'd like to see how they'd talk if they had to have much more than that. Now what is the other side of the coin, you don't consider that that same doubt however.

I'd much rather have a few extra clients and have access to any of the current exclusives than not being able to play them at all. Besides, clients these days have very little impact at all when they're not in use. Personally I always have Steam, Origin and the Battle.Net app running all the time and they don't even hit a total cpu usage of 0.1% on my almost 4 year old PC. In a perfect world we wouldn't have any clients to run at all but it isn't a perfect world, it ends up being about taking the lesser of two evils. And I'd happily give up an extra 0.03% of my cpu to gain access to all those games.

If we go by the rules of your fantasy than how can it not be a good thing, after all you've dreamed it up as only possibly being good. If we talk reality it ain't going to work all dandy like that (though it could, just like politics in my country could suddenly improve). All I see is someone who wants to be locked up with lions, and wants to jump into shark infested waters, and *insert something else animal related*.

So come up with some negatives about it then because I can't see any. It saves gamers money by removing the requirement of having multiple systems to have access to all games. And it gives developers and publishers more money because they'll be selling to a bigger market. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

 

[Rozalia1]

I'm not suggesting PC because it's my platform of choice, I suggest it because it's the only platform that is versatile enough to have any game on it without sacrifices.

As I said excuses, I've already told you the sacrifices of many devs that will likely bring.

As I said before, handhelds are a different beast entirely from the purpose of the system to the fundamental designs of the games on them. And you're really missing the point of having a single platform for everyone to game on. No-one will be losing their fan base because their fan base would be migrating with them. They'll end up gaining more fans because their games are going to be exposed to a larger audience.

And you talk of me making assumptions? It doesn't work as simple as that, when all your fanbase is somewhere going exclusive somewhere else can absolutely murder your base numbers, especially as the switch being to PC they won't have the cushion of support from a holder company.
You've already been dealt the deathblow on that one so why you keep bringing it up is most odd. Alright something stated quite often by PC only gamers is that PC has more players, and no this is not an invitation for you or anyone else to post articles stating this or that... Now put those JRPGs on the apparently bigger PC base...what happens? If you're correct higher numbers should translate to more sales right? So please do tell me how much more popular JRPGs are actually on PC, I'd like to see that convincing evidence I'm sure you have.

No, your assumption that I wanted Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo gone completely.

Your big mistake is believing that if tomorrow consoles disappeared everyone would just go out and build a gaming PC. Would you get a Wii U if your PC disappeared (and yes I know how vulnerable that is to jokes. Please save them as you know what I mean).

I'd much rather have a few extra clients and have access to any of the current exclusives than not being able to play them at all. Besides, clients these days have very little impact at all when they're not in use. Personally I always have Steam, Origin and the Battle.Net app running all the time and they don't even hit a total cpu usage of 0.1% on my almost 4 year old PC. In a perfect world we wouldn't have any clients to run at all but it isn't a perfect world, it ends up being about taking the lesser of two evils. And I'd happily give up an extra 0.03% of my cpu to gain access to all those games.

Here is a little question, why don't you just buy them? Do you not have the money? That why you want them to go against good business sense to appease you and those like you? No I doubt you'd admit (or that its even the reason) that were the reason.
If you don't see it worth it to buy them to play those exclusives...than you never really wanted them anyway. Simple as.
You want something bad enough and you get it...if you merely want it but don't really want to strain yourself to make it possible for you to have it than meh, it doesn't really matter to you.

Yes it isn't a perfect world, yet you seem to think it'll be a perfect world (or at least near perfect outside all the clients) all because PC would be the sole platform. No business doesn't work like that, and I have no doubt you'll soon not want to be locked up with the lions you'd have locked yourself up with very quickly.

So come up with some negatives about it then because I can't see any. It saves gamers money by removing the requirement of having multiple systems to have access to all games. And it gives developers and publishers more money because they'll be selling to a bigger market. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

Well as I said, in your fantasy everything works out all dandy like (going by what you're saying). Companies will be all for the consumer, prices will stay down, piracy won't effect anything, a monopoly is impossible or *rolls eyes* it'll be the ever so benevolent Valve who as we commonly hear can do no wrong, the holder companies will for some reason (the goodness of their hearts I'm sure) continue supporting all those projects that are unlikely to actually make any money and are made to increase the value of their systems (which they won't have anymore), every gamer who doesn't have a gaming PC will buy one immediately, PC's rep will max out immediately, all the the big companies who have benefited thus far will all quickly transform into saints, and everyone will have pie.

If we're talking your dream of the future than sure everything will be dandy. If we're not talking illusions however than no everything won't suddenly be el dandy. Now who am I to doubt El Dandy? Just a multiplatform guy who knows good change isn't as simple as making something disappear in a snap.