Universities -- Misconceptions

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IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
That makes sense. You're still well ahead of the US on the minimum wage; the national minimum is currently $7.25 here, with individual states having the option of requiring a higher minimum within the borders of the state. In Florida, for example, it's currently $7.31. Considering that the Canadian dollar was trading higher than the US dollar the last time I checked, I'd say you're doing pretty well on that front, even if your education system is lacking.
Yep. It's pretty depressing, actually. The government's artificially inflating our teachers' worth by lowering its standards, which means that a lot of people who really have no business helming classrooms are being entrusted with the ability to shape tomorrow's generations. I'm working hard to ensure my degree is actually *worth* something, but I know people who pretty much coasted their way through college and university alike. These are separate entities in Quebec.

On top of that, we're seeing a lot of gung-ho newbies get in the teaching business only to crawl right back out one or two years later. It's too much pressure, or so they say...

Edit: amen to you, Zyst! Unfortunately, the only entirely free university that I know of is the Nouvelle Université de France, and I'm pretty sure the Sorbonne works or did work along similar principles. Unfortunately, my alma mater is a business through and through - no matter how much I might have appreciated my time with some teachers.

Still, I'm glad. I hate Classical Studies, and the UQAM was the only worthwhile place in Montreal where I'd be able to wax Lovecraft in French. I could've gone to Concordia or McGill, but I really wanted to stick close to my native language. I'm submerged in English about 90% of the time, so I was pretty happy at the prospect of taking a break, so to speak.
 

Rnr1224

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Mar 21, 2011
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i completely agree with you. i have many friends who are very bright but unable to pursue higher education because of financial problems. this year actually, my school had to raise tuition and many of my friends were not able to return because of it.
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Rnr1224 said:
i completely agree with you. i have many friends who are very bright but unable to pursue higher education because of financial problems. this year actually, my school had to raise tuition and many of my friends were not able to return because of it.
Which is why, every semester and almost without fail, we have strikes orchestrated in various departments. I understand inflation matters, but it's reached the point where a Master's isn't exactly affordable to everyone.

I have a job, no loans and I'm backed by my folks. I know folks who are covered in loans and who probably won't make it out of their Bachelor's. There's always grants, sure, but they're so few and far between most of us just prefer to soldier through the payments on our own.
 

Dr Snakeman

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Lilani said:
Shivarage said:
That's not what they TELL you when you get there, they tell you to get a high mark for your degree and nothing more and you are guaranteed a job which are lies. they punish having broad activites by not including them in the curriculum, leading to a low value degree.

[sarcasm]Oh yes, I remember all the times the business owners did what they were told... like paying their taxes and not exporting jobs to capitalize their profits not to mention hiring more people with their tax rate deductions... yes, doing what your told definately pays off [/scarcasm]
I'm sorry, but who exactly is punishing you for having broad activities? It couldn't be the employers because they love broad resumes, and it couldn't be the university because student organizations need participation for you to survive. Or do you mean that if you participate in lots of activities, it could lower your scores? Because that isn't the fault of employers OR the university. That's your own fault for not managing your time properly, and for not knowing when you've bitten off more than you can chew.

And if you think there was ever a time when businesses "did what they were told," I think you need to do some reading up on the US industrial revolution and the work conditions and monopolies of the late 19th century/early 20th century. Historians agree the industrial revolution was one of the most corrupt eras in American history, both politically and bureaucratically. It wasn't until strict regulation came into play after WWI and the Great Depression that they stopped hiring children and making them work in front of dangerous machinery that could mangle them in an instant, gave reasonable work hours with regular breaks, stopped jacking up railroad prices in rural areas where they had the monopolies, and became required to provide basic safety equipment such as functioning fire escapes. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire]

Plus the tax situation back then? It was ridiculous. See, it was property tax rather than income tax. The reason they had property taxes was because owning lots of property usually meant you had lots of money--because you were on a farm. But then the factories came. The factories could sit on a tiny plot of land and generate more in revenue than even the largest farms could ever dream of. So while the millionaire business owners were sitting on piles of money in the northeast, impoverished farmers in the south were paying the bulk of the taxes that went to pay for the infrastructure that would in turn only benefit the urban businesses. They got that changed too, but it was still in the midst of the second worst depression in American history (I'm sure you know which one was the worst).

So quit victimizing yourself. Businesses have always been out to screw people over, that doesn't mean you have to go ahead and bend over for them. Again, make YOUR education work for YOU. And if you REALLY hate it that much, why don't you just quit? Do the benefits of having the degree outweigh the little grievances you've put for there? Then suck it up. Quit whining about it and work to make your situation better. But if that's just too much work then you have no room to be complaining.

Oh, and what is this?

yes, doing what your told definately pays off
Good Lord. Did you not read what I wrote? Or is it that you just didn't comprehend my point? My point was to NOT only do exactly what you are told to do, when it comes to making decisions about your future and your education. That's just a ridiculous way to live, mindlessly following whatever path somebody else tells you to take. Yes there are requirements you must fill, but you should never just stop there.

Now, when I said getting good scores shows employers you can do what you are told, I was referring to those required tasks set before you. Because let's face it--most workplaces usually don't offer as many opportunities to be avant-garde as school. You are asked to perform certain tasks by your bosses, and you are expected to complete them. That's sort of the point of working, you know? And having good scores shows that you are able to complete those tasks with a level of efficiency and quality.

But all in all, that's a very common trait. Doing what you are told isn't exactly a rare gift. Which is why I said at the end to not JUST do that. Doing more than the minimum is a much rarer trait, and speaks worlds of your character and dedication. Ultimately, employers don't want someone who will do the job set before them. They want someone who will not only do the job, but not hesitate to do whatever more is required to do the job as best as possible.

So, summary: Following the minimum requirements for your degree is not the way to go. Broaden your horizons--do other things. Go beyond what is required and find other useful things you can do or learn on the side. Doing what you are told is no longer good enough. The reason a degree is no longer a guarantee for a job is because they are so common now. Post-graduate jobs have officially become competitive. You can't just earn your degree then sit on your ass. You've got to work yourself up and prove yourself to be worthy of your degree and your job.
Shivarage said:
snippitude
TL;DR version?


I will take any excuse to use that video in a forum post :D

But yeah, that was an epic rant.

Shivvy, my boy, quit blaming your problems on the "elitist rich people". Quit acting like there is nothing of value in higher education. It's not perfect, but it works. Quit insulting the people who actually try to make something of themselves, and don't just whine on the internet about how school is dumb because they aren't good at it.

And for God's sake, please just... shut up. Your posts make up, like, half of the content of this thread. It's getting old.
 

StarCecil

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Feb 28, 2010
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Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but does it make a difference to you that large - very large - proportion of college students are on some form of financial aid or scholarship (i.e. not paying). And that this proportion increases to half or over half for the most prominent colleges?
 

Shivarage

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Apr 9, 2010
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Dr Snakeman said:
Lawl, having a degree doesn't mean someone owes you a living mate so the "make something of yourself" shite doesn't stand, hell - the first thing said to me in my first job interview was "don't you know someone who can just give you a job?"
Yep... you are gonna tell me it's a problem that can't be fixed and to just "work hard" (an incredibly vague term used by people like you who have no answers) and shut up since standing up for yourself isn't something good educated things do
 

AngloDoom

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Aug 2, 2008
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Shivarage said:
Dr Snakeman said:
Lawl, having a degree doesn't mean someone owes you a living mate so the "make something of yourself" shite doesn't stand, hell - the first thing said to me in my first job interview was "don't you know someone who can just give you a job?"
Yep... you are gonna tell me it's a problem that can't be fixed and to just "work hard" (an incredibly vague term used by people like you who have no answers) and shut up since standing up for yourself isn't something good educated things do
I'm lost now. I'm sorry, but you'll have to forgive me and help me on my way here since I've totally lost track of where this is going.

University = Bad because you might as well make contacts with rich people.
Rich people = Go to top-end universities because they can afford to.
Going to university = Means meeting rich people and making good contacts.

Is that kind of where you are? Universities are bad because it's not about what you know, it's who you know? Also, it's not about hard-work, but smart work?

Just to clarify, thanks.
 

Arluza

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Jan 24, 2011
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Shivarage said:
syrus27 said:
Stall said:
I need to rant.

Do you want to know what universities are? BUSINESSES.
Did the ever pretend to be anything else?
Yes, they pretenciously portray themselves to be magical lands where knowledge and wisdom is handed to you on a silver platter then employers come grovelling at your feet for you to come work for them after graduation.
just watch the tv adverts, the campus "prospectus" ie, a stupid word for menu and talk to any school teacher, they will tell you it is a guaranteed path to millions in riches.

The businesses sell success but without the success and then turn to say "didn't get a job? should have worked harder" the same excuse every time...
Employers aren't stupid, they are fully aware of how even lazy people do a degree just to have a degree so employers raise their qualification standards just because they need a way to filter the ever growing ocean of "talent" aka mindless drones
really? Where? Show me one. Because I live in the US too and I haven't seen it. Maybe it is because I am a smart person and know the TV isn't a reality either, and to take everything with spoonfuls of salt.

I am a computer programming major and i can tell you that there are majors where you can get by with no effort. Education, business, political science, economics, Art history. You don't need to work for those. just breeze on through. Programmers, Natural Science (Biology, Astronomy, Geology, etc) all require work. Those majors you never hear about? those are the ones people will get jobs in. The "don't have a job?" bit is more due to the education bubble being around 5 to 10 years from bursting. I would say I am sorry you are stupid for not living in reality, but I don't feel sorry for you because reality has always been right there, you've just been ignoring it.
 

CODE-D

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Feb 6, 2011
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I wish my microbiology teacher was just an employee but he takes this shit seriously.