Upskirt Danger Caused Sex Change in Ico's The Last Guardian

[krimson_dropz]

is it just me or was he saying pretty mysogynist things about women being weak in his explination besides the skirt thing?

 

[CatinHat]

so what now we got a boy with a skirt on and there is a lot of climbing?

how does that help any more then having a girl lol

 

[justnotcricket]

Ok, now get ready for this...GIRLS CAN WEAR PANTS TOO! =D

Seriously. I mean, I understand that with the aesthetic and all, a waifish girl would probably look more picturesque in a skirt, but changing the character's gender still seems like the more complicated option to me. But then I guess since we all accuse Japanese games of having rather feminine male characters, perhaps the change is not so great after all...

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Well, to summarise the thread:

Just put some damn pants on, oh, nevermind, that's a Japanese cultural taboo, uh, what's wrong with upskirt shots, this game is Japanese made, and why so gender swap.

That's pretty much everything I was going to say, already said by the entire forum.

The thread already covered that question. Nicely. ' -'

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Well, to summarise the thread:

Just put some damn pants on, oh, nevermind, that's a Japanese cultural taboo, uh, what's wrong with upskirt shots, this game is Japanese made, and why so gender swap.

That's pretty much everything I was going to say, already said by the entire forum.

The thread already covered that question. Nicely. ' -'

So yeah, everything I posted was already covered.

 

[mogamer]

Hell, I feel the opposite of everyone wanting to put pants on a female. I too feel that keeping the charactor a female, but in a skirt without any underpants! I'm surprised that Japanese developers didn't come up with that solution!

 

[Wakefield]

Fucking Christ man just give her pants. I'm a girl and was at one point an adolescent girl. I WORE PANTS. Still do too now that I think about it.

That's the worst logic I've ever heard. If its true, which I doubt. Sounds like an excuse to me, a weak one.

 

[jamradar]

Or he could have the boy dress like a girl.

 

[boholikeu]

So he&s awesome because he views women as simply being weak rather than sexually objectifying them?

Please don't stretch/change the original intent of my post(s) anymore. Or infer it. Anyways, It's rude not to answer someone, so here you go:

He has a preference for ladies in dresses. I have a similar preference. He rather not put a girl in the game at all if she has to wear pants, at least, that's what we got here. So, what's the problem? This alone is no means 'absolute proof' that he 'views women as simply being weak'. Clothing preferences never will determine his actual views. Or mine. Maybe the original girl had a preference for a dress, but the camera made him go 'Heh, nope'. Maybe it's custom in that world. Maybe he just loves dresses. I ~hope~ I'm not being ironic and stretching your own comment, but are you telling me that he HAS to view women as 'weak beings' for a variable that very easily could suggest otherwise?

You'd also have to lump me into that camp as well, for I'd do the same thing as he did. [Unless they were REALLY cool pants, but the kind of pants I'm thinking don't fit his world much at all.]

Sorry, I should have clarified that I was referring to his other comments about initially wanting a female character because he wanted the protagonist to contrast with the strength of the creature. I don't think it's sexist that he prefers women in dresses, but I do think it's a bit off that when he thinks of "weak" he automatically thinks of a female character.

I read the headline and initially thought "wow that's pretty progressive for a Japanese developer. Usually they are all for the upskirt fan service". Then, as the article points out, I realized he could've just put her in pants...

And any shred of respect I had was dashed when I read the bit about choosing a female character as the natural antithesis to a strong creature.

So he's a bastard for replacing a female child with a male child as the antithesis for strength? I don't think children of any sex have that much strength.

Oh my god! He could have put pants on his character, and we'd have a female as a character instead of a stupid male one! HOW DARE HE!!

He's not a bastard. He is slightly sexist for initially thinking of a female child as the antithesis of something strong, and then eventually deciding a male child would be okay after all because "their grip is naturally stronger anyway".

So he's awesome because he views women as simply being weak rather than sexually objectifying them?

Pure ad homeniem, completely unfair and fabricating what he's saying, and no, he's awesome because he thinks about every aspect of a game and how they would fit. He's the only one that has some artistic balls in this whole industry, and if he thinks that having a young, male child for a protagonist would make a bit more sense, then let him do it.

Seriously, people, why the hell are people getting their panties-oh, I'm sorry, pants, in a twist over this? You're condemning a Japanese developer for thinking that we gamers are a bunch of sick fucks? I, for one, applaud him for foreseeing the possibilities and looking through every aspect of his game as an artist would for his painting, or how an author would for his novel.

Personally, Fumito Ueda is one of my personal idols in game design.

Again, I'm not criticizing him for the fact that he chose a male protagonist over a female one. I'm criticizing him for his comments about why he made that choice.

To those butthurt few individuals that seem to be throwing a feminism fueled temper tantrum over this:

Artists can and will do ANYTHING they want to bring their visions to fruition. This includes changing characters as they see fit. Udea decided that a male lead made more sense and that is fine.

His opinion on what sex would have been better for this game does not make him sexist; it makes him a man of artistic integrity. Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

Grow thicker skin - there is absolutely nothing to be gained by rampant political correctness. It just makes you look like a raving reactionist.

Your're right. His opinion on what sex would have been better for the game do not make him sexist; his reasons for that choice do.

Artistic integrity do not absolve one of making sexist choices. I applaud the fact that he has the balls to do what he thinks is best for his game, but at the same time I am still free to criticize him for those choices. By your logic we should not criticize D. W. Griffith for "Birth of a Nation".

Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

There could have been, but sadly the only reasons he stated were somewhat sexist. I can only judge him on what he says, not other hypothetical reasons that he never mentions.

How different are the expectations? I have heard a lot about Japans cultrue, but I don't whats true and whats made up.

Well it depends what you are talking about. If you list me some specific things you've heard I can tell you what's true and what not, but otherwise it's kinda hard to just sum up the gender politics of an entire country in one blog post.

 

[DarkPanda XIII]

Yeah, where's the pants for the girl, short-shorts under a tunic works too, especially for that time era, in any fantasy >.>

 

[Archereus]

Games need more female protagonists! I demand a lady in pants!
...Wow, I really just wrote that...

yes yes you did and this is a great moment in gamer history, be proud of yourself proud sir.

 

[boholikeu]

Well, to summarise the thread:

Just put some damn pants on, oh, nevermind, that's a Japanese cultural taboo, uh, what's wrong with upskirt shots, this game is Japanese made, and why so gender swap.

That's pretty much everything I was going to say, already said by the entire forum.

Actually Japan does not have any cultural taboo against women wearing pants. That's part of the reason his comments seem so strange.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Games need more female protagonists! I demand a lady in pants!
...Wow, I really just wrote that...

It might be better to demand boys in skirts

Marcus Phoenix now needs to wear a dress... it must happen.

 

[CplDustov]

That sound you hear is my head repeatedly striking my desk over the huge amounts of sexism depicted by Fumito Ueda. First he wants a weak hero to counterbalance the strength of the creature in the game. So naturally he things of a girl. Because you know. Women are all weak, soft creatures who can never on their own be strong, independent and kick butt on their own. y'know, despite all the strong, female, independent kick butt characters in games, media and real life.

And naturally, if we have a girl character, she'll wear a skirt. Because all girls wear skirts, always. You'll never see a girl wearing pants while clinging to a monster or fighting. Besides, boys have a stronger grip.

Dear Mister Ueda. Kindly pull your head out of your ass and join us in the 21st century, where women are equals and wear pants. Thanks.

He isn't quoted as saying weak but agile. Her strength doesn't come from force but something else.

I was going to say that he doesn't imply women are weak so much as girls but then the same could be said of boys so I agree with you on this part.

And the skirts thing.. don't see why pants can't be an option

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

Actually Japan does not have any cultural taboo against women wearing pants. That's part of the reason his comments seem so strange.

I think it would help to keep in mind, that social conventions aren´t binary.
The two states aren´t "No one without a d*ck is allowed to wear pants!" and "PANTS FOR EVERYONE!".

Even though it is not a "taboo", women wearing pants still IS somewhat more uncommon than in the UK or US.
And it IS certainly associated with a certain degree of emancipation and independence.
And the game is all about co-dependence and the "weakness" of an individual.

But hey, at this point in history, I seriously doubt that it´s possible for a Japanese Dev to make ANY decision short of "Yes, we will utilize the start-button" without getting flak for it.

"In our game, you can peep at panties!"
"LOLICON!"
"Okay, let´s just sidestep the entire issue by having a male protagonist!"
"SEXIST"
"..... know what, f*ck you guys, my next game will be about spanking girls into good behaviour!"
".... what ?"

 

[Nouw]

Put pants under skirts then. It's the new 'cool.'

Also please, don't start with the Japanese bullshit. Although I am disgusted and disappointed at times.

 

[boholikeu]

Actually Japan does not have any cultural taboo against women wearing pants. That's part of the reason his comments seem so strange.

I think it would help to keep in mind, that social conventions aren´t binary.
The two states aren´t "No one without a d*ck is allowed to wear pants!" and "PANTS FOR EVERYONE!".

Even though it is not a "taboo", women wearing pants still IS somewhat more uncommon than in the UK or US.

If it is more uncommon then the difference is negligible. I honestly don&t notice much of a difference between the number of women wearing pants here in Japan and in the US (never been to the UK so I can't speak for it).

And it IS certainly associated with a certain degree of emancipation and independence.
And the game is all about co-dependence and the "weakness" of an individual.

While this might be true, it still begs the question of why he apparently immediately thought "female" when trying to create a weak character.

"In our game, you can peep at panties!"
"LOLICON!"
"Okay, let´s just sidestep the entire issue by making her wear pants or shorts!"
"okay that's cool."

fixed

 

[Dogstile]

Skirts, trousers, shorts (like in pokemon). All would have worked

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

While this might be true, it still begs the question of why he apparently immediately thought "female" when trying to create a weak character.

Except he didn´t want to create a "weak" character.
He wanted a character that was the anti-thesis to a massive mythical beast.
Someone that LOOKS light and fragile.

And, generally speaking, women DO look less muscular than men.
I really, really do not see what the problem is.
Are we that far down the rabbithole, that it is sacrilege to say that ?