US(and a bunch of other places) vs Libya, GO!

[Littlee300]

I hope Gaddafi Wins in this conflict.

Can I infer as to why?

Well attacking your own civilians is not a big deal and the rest of the worlds countries should mind there own shit and even though Gaddafi is winning if the rebels win there will still be civil war and a power vacuum.

Are you serious?

I... don't even know how to respond to this.

As for the main topic... come on, we all saw it coming. With all luck, the jack-off in charge will see where this is going and apply for asylum out of country.

Until then, go, my Navy brethren, and drop explosives til the cows come home!

Even the USA kills its own people. It is just a difference in what each government sees as a crime.

How and when?

Death penalty.

I was hoping for a better response than that...

 

[Lopsided Weener]

If anybody believes that the reason this is whole intervention is to protect civilians, then they need to open their eyes. What the hell are we doing going into another country, and interfering with an interior problem? No matter how much of a dick their government is, it's the official government. I understand that they fired on peaceful protesters, but when these peaceful protesters took up arms, the government suddenly has every right to use force against them. If you have your own civilians staging an armed uprising against you, organised by who know who, what would you do?

If you look at the world in black and white this intervention probably seems fully justified, especially if you're the white. But the world is just a load of different shades of grey, and you shouldn't ever look at anything one sided.

Meh. ramble ramble.

 

[Fleischer]

Death penalty.

Actually, thats the people.

The US government CANNOT kill its own civilians. Only a criminal's fellow peers can.

The US federal government can execute people, including its citizens, for capital crimes such as treason. State governments are able to execute their citizens. I don't understand who you are referring to when you say "a criminal's fellow peers." Are you talking about inmates killing each other in prison?

 

[Dogstile]

Edit: Frenchies got the first shot!

EAT IT ENGLAND!

Heh, well it would hardly be fair unless France got a head start now would it?

 

[Littlee300]

Everybody seems to forget that the war in Iraq is over, been over since August of last year when all US combat personnel were withdrew from the country

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You BELIEVE that?

It's bullshit, by the way.

I'm assuming you are referring to the 50k U.S personnel left in the country that are ADVISING and helping train the Iraqi military and police forces, wouldn't really consider those guys combat as is they aren't doing any combat missions

So yeah I guess I would believe that

They go out on combat missions. They are just 'back up,' like the Iraqi forces were considered before.

Back up gets called in a lot more often now.

I had not heard that but that still doesn't mean there is a "war in Iraq" as the President of the United States declared that over is August of last year

Oh, no, there is no war. But it is still an 'Armed Conflict.'

[China would love for Korea to unite. They said so. It would allow better trade (which china loves) it is ridiculous to think China would prefer Korea not to be unified.

Unified under WHO though.

Seoul. The capital of South Korea. I doubt they care much though
Edit: Article for proof http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a674cb64-fc45-11df-a9c5-00144feab49a.html#axzz1H5rRj9r7
http://www.upiasia.com/Politics/2008/11/06/why_china_supports_korean_unification/2763/

 

[Feralcentaur]

I hope Gaddafi Wins in this conflict.

Can I infer as to why?

Well attacking your own civilians is not a big deal and the rest of the worlds countries should mind there own shit and even though Gaddafi is winning if the rebels win there will still be civil war and a power vacuum.

Yeah, I kinda stopped listening to you after the first 10 words.

He has a pint though, considering nothing was done about China killing its own people, its all becuase there is oil envolved.

Or because, you know, China has a population of over a billion and is one of the most powerful nations in the world? I could imagine that playing a pretty big factor...

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Snip

They're not really allies, and China wouldnt go against the US and lose that trading partner or Risk the UK/Russia/anyone joining to strike. Contrary to what people and China like to say, their military isnt as great as it sounds. China has the rule that they wont attack N. Korea as long as N. Korea doesnt attack them. However, China has stated it will start war with anyone that crosses its borders while on an attack with N. Korea (just as it was in the Korean War).

Its a standoff situation up there, withe veryone watching everyone.

Their army may not be the best equipped but it is the largest and their economy is in the a lot better shape right now than most of the western world i'm not saying i think they can attack i just don't think they have any need to help any other country except to forward their own political agenda and north Korea is a communist country like china so they would in all probability support them over the UN.

Nope. Western markets offer so much more to China then what North Korea offers (A buffer between the US's main route to China, and a point). They understand that it would be cheaper in both money and political capitol to gut North Korea themselves and rebuild it, then to defend it from foreign powers.

Spoiler

Death penalty.

Actually, thats the people.

The US government CANNOT kill its own civilians. Only a criminal's fellow peers can.

The US federal government can execute people, including its citizens, for capital crimes such as treason. State governments are able to execute their citizens. I don't understand who you are referring to when you say "a criminal's fellow peers." Are you talking about inmates killing each other in prison?

Do you understand how trials work?

Spoiler

Everybody seems to forget that the war in Iraq is over, been over since August of last year when all US combat personnel were withdrew from the country

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You BELIEVE that?

It's bullshit, by the way.

I'm assuming you are referring to the 50k U.S personnel left in the country that are ADVISING and helping train the Iraqi military and police forces, wouldn't really consider those guys combat as is they aren't doing any combat missions

So yeah I guess I would believe that

They go out on combat missions. They are just 'back up,' like the Iraqi forces were considered before.

Back up gets called in a lot more often now.

I had not heard that but that still doesn't mean there is a "war in Iraq" as the President of the United States declared that over is August of last year

Oh, no, there is no war. But it is still an 'Armed Conflict.'

[China would love for Korea to unite. They said so. It would allow better trade (which china loves) it is ridiculous to think China would prefer Korea not to be unified.

Unified under WHO though.

Seoul. The capital of South Korea. I doubt they care much though

I somehow doubt this. South Korea is still pretty damn friendly to the US (The Generation that runs the country is, anyway). I'm not sure China would want them in control of a direct route to China.

But then again, China would LOVE to have good relations with South Korea. Giving them there Northern brother would certainly do that...

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

They're not really allies, and China wouldnt go against the US and lose that trading partner or Risk the UK/Russia/anyone joining to strike. Contrary to what people and China like to say, their military isnt as great as it sounds. China has the rule that they wont attack N. Korea as long as N. Korea doesnt attack them. However, China has stated it will start war with anyone that crosses its borders while on an attack with N. Korea (just as it was in the Korean War).

Its a standoff situation up there, withe veryone watching everyone.

Their army may not be the best equipped but it is the largest and their economy is in the a lot better shape right now than most of the western world i'm not saying i think they can attack i just don't think they have any need to help any other country except to forward their own political agenda and north Korea is a communist country like china so they would in all probability support them over the UN.

Their economy is (almost)completely dependent on the west.

America (and most of the west) can make their own plastic crap (cause really what China does has weakened their own dollar, so their economy isnt that great once you take away trading partners), N. Korea cant buy it on the scale that the west does. China would be financially ruined.

 

[Baradiel]

I don't get how they can go after Libya, and continue to ignore North Korea.

North Korea has the backing of China and, to some extent, Russia. Either of those countries could veto any UN action, and it could easily escalate if one of those super powers decided to help their ally. Libya is a international pariah.

Also, if your cynical, North Korea doesn't have any oil...

Even china is growing sick of North Korea and the reason why korea has been quite of late is because china told them to stand down, so I doubt china or russia would object to UN action if North Korea started making noise again.

And being cynical on subjects like this, I'd go as far to say that they have been waiting for lybia to go into civil war or maybe even initiated it for the oil, though that might be going too far. But we all know the UN has a history of being free of corruption, backing up just causes for no profit, bringing peace wherever they go and not being biased...

To your first point; true, China does seem to be getting tired with their little brother, but I believe that they would still step in to help. Removing the "Communist" system in North Korea would lead to a unified Korea, backed (most likely) by the US. Sino-American relations may be pretty steady, but I doubt they would be willing to allow their historic enemy another foothold closer to China.

To your second; I hope your last sentence is tongue-in-cheek. Seriously. It can't not be. Please tell me its sarcastic. PLEASE!

China would love for Korea to unite. They said so. It would allow better trade (which china loves) it is ridiculous to think China would prefer Korea not to be unified.

It isn't ridiculous at all. If you just look at the historical precedents, China has always aimed to reduce Capitalist involvement in ths Pacific-Indochina region. The Korean War was the most obvious time China prevented a "rollback" of Communism, actively committing over a million troops to the conflict, losing about half of that. Among many other reasons, Mao feared American-UN invasion of China. In Vietnam, the Chinese supplied and trained the Vietcong and the Vietminh to force the American-backed South Vietnam to collapse.

Yes, these events were during the Cold War, and rapproachment between America and China is going well, but saying the Chinese want a Capitalist Korea is groundless. Yes, trade would be useful for China, but if you look at the region from a geopolitical stance China would be surrounded by possible enemies: India, Japan, a new Capitalist Korea, and a (sometimes) hostile Russia.

Abandoning a "close" ally (no one can say just how close this relationship is), an ally on the same border as your own, simply for trade gains, would be unlikely and idiotic.

 

[Duskwaith]

Well he is committing war crimes, hes a mad bastard, hes killing civilians in droves and hes a mad bastard.

Though i do agree that if one country ends up losing an aircraft and lives then were is the line drawn?

 

[Littlee300]

Spoiler

Snip

They're not really allies, and China wouldnt go against the US and lose that trading partner or Risk the UK/Russia/anyone joining to strike. Contrary to what people and China like to say, their military isnt as great as it sounds. China has the rule that they wont attack N. Korea as long as N. Korea doesnt attack them. However, China has stated it will start war with anyone that crosses its borders while on an attack with N. Korea (just as it was in the Korean War).

Its a standoff situation up there, withe veryone watching everyone.

Their army may not be the best equipped but it is the largest and their economy is in the a lot better shape right now than most of the western world i'm not saying i think they can attack i just don't think they have any need to help any other country except to forward their own political agenda and north Korea is a communist country like china so they would in all probability support them over the UN.

Nope. Western markets offer so much more to China then what North Korea offers (A buffer between the US's main route to China, and a point). They understand that it would be cheaper in both money and political capitol to gut North Korea themselves and rebuild it, then to defend it from foreign powers.

Spoiler

Death penalty.

Actually, thats the people.

The US government CANNOT kill its own civilians. Only a criminal's fellow peers can.

The US federal government can execute people, including its citizens, for capital crimes such as treason. State governments are able to execute their citizens. I don't understand who you are referring to when you say "a criminal's fellow peers." Are you talking about inmates killing each other in prison?

Do you understand how trials work?

Spoiler

Everybody seems to forget that the war in Iraq is over, been over since August of last year when all US combat personnel were withdrew from the country

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You BELIEVE that?

It's bullshit, by the way.

I'm assuming you are referring to the 50k U.S personnel left in the country that are ADVISING and helping train the Iraqi military and police forces, wouldn't really consider those guys combat as is they aren't doing any combat missions

So yeah I guess I would believe that

They go out on combat missions. They are just 'back up,' like the Iraqi forces were considered before.

Back up gets called in a lot more often now.

I had not heard that but that still doesn't mean there is a "war in Iraq" as the President of the United States declared that over is August of last year

Oh, no, there is no war. But it is still an 'Armed Conflict.'

[China would love for Korea to unite. They said so. It would allow better trade (which china loves) it is ridiculous to think China would prefer Korea not to be unified.

Unified under WHO though.

Seoul. The capital of South Korea. I doubt they care much though

I somehow doubt this. South Korea is still pretty damn friendly to the US (The Generation that runs the country is, anyway). I'm not sure China would want them in control of a direct route to China.

But then again, China would LOVE to have good relations with South Korea. Giving them there Northern brother would certainly do that...

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

 

[thelonewolf266]

Snip

They're not really allies, and China wouldnt go against the US and lose that trading partner or Risk the UK/Russia/anyone joining to strike. Contrary to what people and China like to say, their military isnt as great as it sounds. China has the rule that they wont attack N. Korea as long as N. Korea doesnt attack them. However, China has stated it will start war with anyone that crosses its borders while on an attack with N. Korea (just as it was in the Korean War).

Its a standoff situation up there, withe veryone watching everyone.

Their army may not be the best equipped but it is the largest and their economy is in the a lot better shape right now than most of the western world i'm not saying i think they can attack i just don't think they have any need to help any other country except to forward their own political agenda and north Korea is a communist country like china so they would in all probability support them over the UN.

Their economy is (almost)completely dependent on the west.

America (and most of the west) can make their own plastic crap (cause really what China does has weakened their own dollar, so their economy isnt that great once you take away trading partners), N. Korea cant buy it on the scale that the west does. China would be financially ruined.

I disagree that sword would cut both ways if china no longer trades with western countries we would suffer just as much as they would and china has a much more disciplined citzenery(that's not actually a word is it) due to the way the country is run so I doubt there would be much trouble if western products where in short supply whereas if you told the average American or that he couldn't have a Tv or it was twice the price it used to be he would probably riot saying its unfair and that the government should do something about it though I would like to point out that this is just my opinion I'm not saying i'm definitely right.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

It want's me to register to read.

No.

But, I can see why China would want to. It's just a question of what would win in China, old fashioned paranoia of Capitalism in the Pacific, or good ol' Fashioned greed.

 

[Drago-Morph]

But nice to see the US media claiming all the glory...

They won't be claiming the "glory" once this thing (inevitably) turns into a political shitstorm of Iraqi proportions.

Or, maybe I'm just being cynical. After all, in Iraq there was no group ready to take power. Of course, in Iraq it was only Americans screwing the country up (moreso), instead of France, Britain, and a rebel faction, so it could go either way.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

Whats the point in getting all Liberal about it, its still going to happen, the least we can do is support it.

Wow, that sounds like something a rapist would say...

Seriously, though, does anyone else get the itching feeling that we have have just witnessed the first shots of WWIII? Russia's already getting angry over this, Qadaffi's calling for support from all Islamic nations, and who knows what other countries may jump on board and start forming their own coalition...

 

[Bobbity]

Did anyone not see this ages ago? The Libyans have oil, and that's motivation enough
Anyway, it's probably just going to make things worse for Libyans in the short term. Let's hope the long term benefits to the people of Libya outweigh the short/mid term suffering.

It'd be really nice if the US could stop going to war with everyone though, and just be happy with peace for once.

/edit
I don't think this is going to be as bad as Iraq, because the people are already in rebellion, and once the current Libyan government is gone, the violence will hopefully die down pretty quickly.

 

[Littlee300]

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

It want's me to register to read.

No.

But, I can see why China would want to. It's just a question of what would win in China, old fashioned paranoia of Capitalism in the Pacific, or good ol' Fashioned greed.

That's weird it didn't want me to register earlier.

 

[Baradiel]

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

It want's me to register to read.

No.

But, I can see why China would want to. It's just a question of what would win in China, old fashioned paranoia of Capitalism in the Pacific, or good ol' Fashioned greed.

That's weird it didn't want me to register earlier.

I'm genuinely interested in this proof. I've looked at your earlier posts, but I couldn't see a link or anything.

Is it the Wikileaks file that was between the US and China, where China says it would "abandon N. Korea" or something along those lines?

 

[DefunctTheory]

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

It want's me to register to read.

No.

But, I can see why China would want to. It's just a question of what would win in China, old fashioned paranoia of Capitalism in the Pacific, or good ol' Fashioned greed.

That's weird it didn't want me to register earlier.

I'm genuinely interested in this proof. I've looked at your earlier posts, but I couldn't see a link or anything.

Is it the Wikileaks file that was between the US and China, where China says it would "abandon N. Korea" or something along those lines?

Surprisingly, yes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/30/china-wants-korean-reunification

 

[Littlee300]

Read my earlier post, it has a article for proof

It want's me to register to read.

No.

But, I can see why China would want to. It's just a question of what would win in China, old fashioned paranoia of Capitalism in the Pacific, or good ol' Fashioned greed.

That's weird it didn't want me to register earlier.

I'm genuinely interested in this proof. I've looked at your earlier posts, but I couldn't see a link or anything.

Is it the Wikileaks file that was between the US and China, where China says it would "abandon N. Korea" or something along those lines?

That is correct. Here is another article http://www.upiasia.com/Politics/2008/11/06/why_china_supports_korean_unification/2763/
ninja -.-