US health care Mentality

[Anacortian]

It is completely, at least for me, about freedom. If you want to or do receive medicine from your government, you are a serf. I'm not saying serfs are bad people, but they are not (in the full sense) free people. They have a patron government to whom they trade freedom for comfort.

In the American Republic as it started (it has gone downhill since) one was free. They looked to the government for nothing but to handle the things of the people (res publica) and owed the government virtually nothing. Remember that the US Constitution originally banned federal income tax; that took an amendment.

I oppose the expansion of any government program as a default position. I do this not because I am daft, ignorant, or indoctrinated. I do so because I am free, would like to be more free, and would like all to be free. I do not look to the government to personally help me; I am not a serf.

I the serfs of the world really want to stay that way, that is their business. I just remind them that all of their property the then by definition not theirs; neither is there health, work, money, children, and choices. You have given that to your patron for a decently comfortable shackle. I hope you are happy with your choice, because it is a very hard one to recant.

 

[jpoon]

People still really really want to believe that insurance companies were paying people to go to these meetings. Fortunately it was just a pissed off majority of people, me being one of them, who don't want this government having say over their lives and livelihood. I can see advantages of having competition with insurance companies but the free market can always do a better job than some form of Gov' care.

A lot of people are very much worried that what would start as a government "option" to healthcare would eventually take over the private sector and become mandatory. This would happen by the so very much loved government tactic of incrementalism.

Why shouldn't we use what we already have and remove idiotic laws and protectionist rulings such as not allowing insurance to cross state borders? Why not allow them to fight for business, may the best company win! This is very much in line with a "free market" society, hell I'd entertain the government competing in the free market, however I'm sure that you'd get better quality in the public domain than something coming from the nanny state. Let the best company win!

The only problem with the current "free market" system that you're touting is that demand is high right now, which means that the insurance companies charge higher prices just because they can. Profit is the bigger goal for these organizations, not public well being. At least with a "nanny state" government system they're trying to make sure the general population can get some basic care when needed. I haven't been to a doctor or dentist in about 3-4 years because everything costs so damn much and I'm just a student trying to get by.

I realize that students can get coverage on their parents' insurance, but that only applies until you're 24 and I'm 27.

This is why I say allow the government to COMPETE and not take over the healthcare, I can agree with this. Then the chips will fall where they may. People who want crap healthcare can get it from the government and people who want good care can get it from the free market competition. This also needs to include the removal of restrictive laws such as state line crossing among other protectionist laws in place.

See, I am by no means a supporter of huge corporations, in fact I very much would like to see most of them fail in flaming wreckage, however I just cannot accept this government swelling further and controlling healthcare without the option to choose for myself.

You do know a government run health care plan would cost more then your current one? Simply because the government can't efficiently manage money, and won't negioate with the doctors like health care companies do to lower prices.

See then let them compete, and when they totally fail at what they love to promise then everyone will see, yet again, that the free market is always better at doing almost anything...

 

[Bassman_2]

I don't know exactly who, but it's the people typing it into the computer who are probably reading bottom up.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

It's just that the mass American public has been brainwashed into believing that Socialized Medicine is the tool of the devil thanks to a multi-billion dollar campaign by the Republican Party and HMO's.

Go watch "Sicko." by Michael Moore. That explains it.

PS. I'm from Britain .

"Sicko", the film that actively portrays a private higher-class hospital in Cuba and suggests that every citizen gets that standard of health care.

Fact: It sucks that people don't all have health care, we wish everyone could get it.
Fact: The government in America is corrupt and inept at any helpful thing they may try, funneling money to pork-barrel instead of to the people who need help.

Idiot solution: Make the government help!
Smart solution: More competition.

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

Which makes no sense because there is no such thing as 'government competition'.

Example: You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under our current methodology. You call your insurance company, tell them to fuck off, and then they stop billing you. Done.

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

 

[Cliff_m85]

People still really really want to believe that insurance companies were paying people to go to these meetings. Fortunately it was just a pissed off majority of people, me being one of them, who don't want this government having say over their lives and livelihood. I can see advantages of having competition with insurance companies but the free market can always do a better job than some form of Gov' care.

A lot of people are very much worried that what would start as a government "option" to healthcare would eventually take over the private sector and become mandatory. This would happen by the so very much loved government tactic of incrementalism.

Why shouldn't we use what we already have and remove idiotic laws and protectionist rulings such as not allowing insurance to cross state borders? Why not allow them to fight for business, may the best company win! This is very much in line with a "free market" society, hell I'd entertain the government competing in the free market, however I'm sure that you'd get better quality in the public domain than something coming from the nanny state. Let the best company win!

The only problem with the current "free market" system that you're touting is that demand is high right now, which means that the insurance companies charge higher prices just because they can. Profit is the bigger goal for these organizations, not public well being. At least with a "nanny state" government system they're trying to make sure the general population can get some basic care when needed. I haven't been to a doctor or dentist in about 3-4 years because everything costs so damn much and I'm just a student trying to get by.

I realize that students can get coverage on their parents' insurance, but that only applies until you're 24 and I'm 27.

This is why I say allow the government to COMPETE and not take over the healthcare, I can agree with this. Then the chips will fall where they may. People who want crap healthcare can get it from the government and people who want good care can get it from the free market competition. This also needs to include the removal of restrictive laws such as state line crossing among other protectionist laws in place.

See, I am by no means a supporter of huge corporations, in fact I very much would like to see most of them fail in flaming wreckage, however I just cannot accept this government swelling further and controlling healthcare without the option to choose for myself.

You do know a government run health care plan would cost more then your current one? Simply because the government can't efficiently manage money, and won't negioate with the doctors like health care companies do to lower prices.

See then let them compete, and when they totally fail at what they love to promise then everyone will see, yet again, that the free market is always better at doing almost anything...

The war on drugs. Still going on. Failing miserable. Has the government cut it's losses? Nope.

Add that it's not a choice of insurance since the cost would be in taxes. You don't pay it, you go to jail. That's not free market at all.

 

[jpoon]

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

It's just that the mass American public has been brainwashed into believing that Socialized Medicine is the tool of the devil thanks to a multi-billion dollar campaign by the Republican Party and HMO's.

Go watch "Sicko." by Michael Moore. That explains it.

PS. I'm from Britain .

"Sicko", the film that actively portrays a private higher-class hospital in Cuba and suggests that every citizen gets that standard of health care.

Fact: It sucks that people don't all have health care, we wish everyone could get it.
Fact: The government in America is corrupt and inept at any helpful thing they may try, funneling money to pork-barrel instead of to the people who need help.

Idiot solution: Make the government help!
Smart solution: More competition.

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

Which makes no sense because there is no such thing as 'government competition'.

Example: You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under our current methodology. You call your insurance company, tell them to fuck off, and then they stop billing you. Done.

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Well, it shouldn't have to be that way but you are likely right. I am personally NOT a supporter of Gov'care. I see it as a completely intrusion to our lives and is unneeded. Deregulate the frigging laws that prevent true competition in this country. Fix the fucking tort laws and then you will have some decent insurance prices!

 

[walker.au]

People still really really want to believe that insurance companies were paying people to go to these meetings. Fortunately it was just a pissed off majority of people, me being one of them, who don't want this government having say over their lives and livelihood. I can see advantages of having competition with insurance companies but the free market can always do a better job than some form of Gov' care.

A lot of people are very much worried that what would start as a government "option" to healthcare would eventually take over the private sector and become mandatory. This would happen by the so very much loved government tactic of incrementalism.

Why shouldn't we use what we already have and remove idiotic laws and protectionist rulings such as not allowing insurance to cross state borders? Why not allow them to fight for business, may the best company win! This is very much in line with a "free market" society, hell I'd entertain the government competing in the free market, however I'm sure that you'd get better quality in the public domain than something coming from the nanny state. Let the best company win!

Health care should not be a business... In the US at the moment it is very big business and Insurance companies are spending millions to buy your congressman.That is the government tbeing taken over and many times worse.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

It's just that the mass American public has been brainwashed into believing that Socialized Medicine is the tool of the devil thanks to a multi-billion dollar campaign by the Republican Party and HMO's.

Go watch "Sicko." by Michael Moore. That explains it.

PS. I'm from Britain .

"Sicko", the film that actively portrays a private higher-class hospital in Cuba and suggests that every citizen gets that standard of health care.

Fact: It sucks that people don't all have health care, we wish everyone could get it.
Fact: The government in America is corrupt and inept at any helpful thing they may try, funneling money to pork-barrel instead of to the people who need help.

Idiot solution: Make the government help!
Smart solution: More competition.

Inject government competition and deregulate idiotic laws that prevent competition!

Which makes no sense because there is no such thing as 'government competition'.

Example: You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under our current methodology. You call your insurance company, tell them to fuck off, and then they stop billing you. Done.

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Well, it shouldn't have to be that way but you are likely right. I am personally NOT a supporter of Gov'care. I see it as a completely intrusion to our lives and is unneeded. Deregulate the frigging laws that prevent true competition in this country. Fix the fucking tort laws and then you will have some decent insurance prices!

I'm not a support of most Government anything. They constantly fuck up and just shrug it off, throwing more of our money at the problem. Almost every tax is completely intrusive in our lives and unneeded as well. I agree with deregulation and support of true competition. We see it work for laser eye surgery, if people shop around....prices go down. Imagine "Food insurance", if you pay a monthly fee of $100 a month for groceries and can grab whatever you want, would you grab some hamburger or two pounds of filet mignon? I say go with HSAs.

 

[Mcupobob]

Why should healthcare be a right?it's a service
you can fix healthcare without to much goverment interfrance
1.tout reform. That way there is less malpractice suit Doctors don't have to pay for some many needless test to make sur they didn't miss a singal thing in fear of a lawsuit.
2. H.S.A a healthcare savings account, Its like social security a savings account where the gov. can't dip in too and where the people can't use only as a dectable for insurance or healthcare.
3. Give tax exmpts to hospitals who put more than a certain amount of money into free clinces.

Doctors put time and money into learning their skills so they have earn the right to sell them at whatever price the want, but since there is other Doctors to compet against then there are going to be compatable prices.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Perhaps you should apply that mode of thought to the Police or armed forces?

But they're essential! Yes, yes they are, just like not being dead from cancer, is, to, most people, essential.

 

[Jark212]

It's just that the mass American public has been brainwashed into believing that Socialized Medicine is the tool of the devil thanks to a multi-billion dollar campaign by the Republican Party and HMO's.

Go watch "Sicko." by Michael Moore. That explains it.

PS. I'm from Britain .

I do think Michael Moore is a douchebag, but he is right... American here.

Fun Fact: Less than half of our Country opposes Universal Healthcare, the largest majority supports it.

 

[Cliff_m85]

People still really really want to believe that insurance companies were paying people to go to these meetings. Fortunately it was just a pissed off majority of people, me being one of them, who don't want this government having say over their lives and livelihood. I can see advantages of having competition with insurance companies but the free market can always do a better job than some form of Gov' care.

A lot of people are very much worried that what would start as a government "option" to healthcare would eventually take over the private sector and become mandatory. This would happen by the so very much loved government tactic of incrementalism.

Why shouldn't we use what we already have and remove idiotic laws and protectionist rulings such as not allowing insurance to cross state borders? Why not allow them to fight for business, may the best company win! This is very much in line with a "free market" society, hell I'd entertain the government competing in the free market, however I'm sure that you'd get better quality in the public domain than something coming from the nanny state. Let the best company win!

Health care should not be a business... In the US at the moment it is very big business and Insurance companies are spending millions to buy your congressman.That is the government tbeing taken over and many times worse.

I hate hate HATE this. It's an idiotic argument. Allow me to show you why, sir.

I offer you $1 billion to murder your mother. Would you do it, sir? If you do, who's fault is it?

Health Care should be a business. Congressmen should be kicked out for accepting bribes, but you focus on the bribers rather than the bribee. There's nothing wrong with offering a gift to get what you want, there is something wrong with accepting the gift for an immoral action.

In closing, the GOVERNMENTS fault. Not businesses.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

I offer you $1 billion to murder your mother. Would you do it, sir? If you do, who's fault is it?

Health Care should be a business. Congressmen should be kicked out for accepting bribes, but you focus on the bribers rather than the bribee. There's nothing wrong with offering a gift to get what you want, there is something wrong with accepting the gift for an immoral action.

In closing, the GOVERNMENTS fault. Not businesses.

Well, aren't you a nice little obdient consumer unit.

The idea that the primary concern of a healthcare organization is profit rather than life, is, I feel, an essentially chilling and sickening thought.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Perhaps you should apply that mode of thought to the Police or armed forces?

But they're essential! Yes, yes they are, just like not being dead from cancer, is, to, most people, essential.

Mr. Wednesday, have you any friends or family in the army? I ask seriously. If you do, ask them of *snicker* how well the *chortle* government takes care of them.

And the police are local, which is quite a different jurisdiction.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I offer you $1 billion to murder your mother. Would you do it, sir? If you do, who's fault is it?

Health Care should be a business. Congressmen should be kicked out for accepting bribes, but you focus on the bribers rather than the bribee. There's nothing wrong with offering a gift to get what you want, there is something wrong with accepting the gift for an immoral action.

In closing, the GOVERNMENTS fault. Not businesses.

Well, aren't you a nice little obdient consumer unit.

The idea that the primary concern of a healthcare organization is profit rather than life, is, I feel, an essentially chilling and sickening thought.

Oh my, you are right! Then why are we not focusing our funds on a way to provide....say....FOOD to the homeless?

Oh yeah, that's right.....because charity does that. Speaking of getting food to those who desperately need it, how did our government do with the Hurricane Katrina situation, sir?

 

[Chunko]

OK here is where I stand. I am Canadian and I enjoy all the benefits of the free public health care here in my country. I believe that every one should have a similar system. But when Obama suggested such a system the American public when nuts and attacked his ideal. I might be on the other side of the fence here but, I here it cost 10 000$US to have a baby in an American hospital. ( WTF) Now y would a public system be so bad? I ask you my American escapist formers what do you say about all this.

Your healthcare is terrible what are you talking about. I know U.S. healthcare is bad, but when compared to Canadian healthcare it's fantastic. One of my father's friends had to move to America? Why might you ask? Well he has a condition (I admit I can't remember what it's called) anyway he's old, and retired so he was put waaaaayy at the end of your communist healthcare service list. This means that he couldn't get healthcare at all and would die if he didn't move to America where he could get regular operations. So he moved. Additionally do you know how much money it would cost to change the healthcare system in a country as big as America. It wouldn't be cheap. And all those taxes would slow down the American Economy. Not to mention, maybe I don't want to spend my hard earned money on someone who needs treatment because they're dieing of lung cancer from abusing illegal drugs.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Perhaps you should apply that mode of thought to the Police or armed forces?

But they're essential! Yes, yes they are, just like not being dead from cancer, is, to, most people, essential.

Mr. Wednesday, have you any friends or family in the army? I ask seriously. If you do, ask them of *snicker* how well the *chortle* government takes care of them.

And the police are local, which is quite a different jurisdiction.

What in the name of completely missing the point of my argument are you talking about.

Are you really implying a privitized millitary and police force?

If so, lolfish.

Oh my, you are right! Then why are we not focusing our funds on a way to provide....say....FOOD to the homeless?

Oh yeah, that's right.....because charity does that. Speaking of getting food to those who desperately need it, how did our government do with the Hurricane Katrina situation, sir?

Again with the wtf are you on about. Congratulations, Captain Tertiary Issue, for utterly side stepping the point.

 

[DrunkWithPower]

I want it, but I have a sneaky feeling I would get it.

 

[jpoon]

I offer you $1 billion to murder your mother. Would you do it, sir? If you do, who's fault is it?

Health Care should be a business. Congressmen should be kicked out for accepting bribes, but you focus on the bribers rather than the bribee. There's nothing wrong with offering a gift to get what you want, there is something wrong with accepting the gift for an immoral action.

In closing, the GOVERNMENTS fault. Not businesses.

Well, aren't you a nice little obdient consumer unit.

The idea that the primary concern of a healthcare organization is profit rather than life, is, I feel, an essentially chilling and sickening thought.

Well obviously you're a government loving individual. We in America are usually all about the free market and see the massive advantages of quality it provides. I choose to use a company to provide the services I require and I choose not to have some government goon handle what can be given at higher quality by the free market. I really give no damn that they make a profit for providing healthcare this isnt a free world so they should get something for the effort. However there needs to be many laws repaired or removed to get the prices down. The free market always wins against government control and as I see it insurance is a business not a right.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Now the government steps up and makes universal health care. You, for some reason, decide not to have health care under their methodology. You call them up, tell them to fuck off, and they send polite little men with polite little automatic weapons to your house.

Capiche?

Perhaps you should apply that mode of thought to the Police or armed forces?

But they're essential! Yes, yes they are, just like not being dead from cancer, is, to, most people, essential.

Mr. Wednesday, have you any friends or family in the army? I ask seriously. If you do, ask them of *snicker* how well the *chortle* government takes care of them.

And the police are local, which is quite a different jurisdiction.

What in the name of completely missing the point of my argument are you talking about.

Are you really implying a privitized millitary and police force?

If so, lolfish.

Oh my, you are right! Then why are we not focusing our funds on a way to provide....say....FOOD to the homeless?

Oh yeah, that's right.....because charity does that. Speaking of getting food to those who desperately need it, how did our government do with the Hurricane Katrina situation, sir?

Again with the wtf are you on about. Congratulations, Captain Tertiary Issue, for utterly side stepping the point.

Apparently I'm making the argument to intellectual. I apologize. I'll make it easier for you to understand.

Government = bad. Government = fuck up.

Army get screwed by government. Benefits not good. Soldiers not cared for enuff. That = sad.
Police are not = government but local. Local government not fuck up as bad. So u example is bad.

Government no help Katrina victims good enough. Alot died. Alot suffered. Charity helped mostly. Charity is better because not corrupt.


There, better?