US health care Mentality

[WhiteTiger225]

The new plan Obama is pitching is everyone is required by law to have health insurance. If that passes, I will be one of the first people to start a class action lawsuit against the government. If I could afford health insurance, I'd already have it. I don't need a law to tell me to get it.

As far as universal health care, it's not that people don't want it. It's the fact that we have tens of millions of illegal immigrants in America who don't pay taxes, therefore should not receive free health care. If anyone thinks we should, they are wrong. Go ***** at the Mexican president about that.

The bill DOES NOT COVER illegal immigrants. The only people covered in an illegal immigrants family is any children that they bore in the US.

THIS RIGHT HERE is a good example of why people whine about the bill. Panic, Slander, Misinterpretation, Lies... and not reading the damn bill for yourself before bitching.

THEY ALREADY GET HEALTH CARE!!!!!

Emergency rooms help anyone who walks in, be they a citizen or not. Then, when the bills aren't paid, I'm stuck paying more.

And what does the health care plan, mixed with the "You must have health care" law do? It means illegal immigrants are not covered AT ALL (Save for the ones who have done a damn good job forging certificates and such) AND will be fined for not having health care that they cannot recieve which means less tax payer money going into health care and some more illegal immigrants hard earned cash paying for everyone instead. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Illegal is in the fucking name! Meaning they are not meant to be here! This is like claiming someone posing as a citizen but is actually a terrorist means America supports terrorism XD

 

[The Bandit]

It is completely, at least for me, about freedom. If you want to or do receive medicine from your government, you are a serf. I'm not saying serfs are bad people, but they are not (in the full sense) free people. They have a patron government to whom they trade freedom for comfort.

In the American Republic as it started (it has gone downhill since) one was free. They looked to the government for nothing but to handle the things of the people (res publica) and owed the government virtually nothing. Remember that the US Constitution originally banned federal income tax; that took an amendment.

I oppose the expansion of any government program as a default position. I do this not because I am daft, ignorant, or indoctrinated. I do so because I am free, would like to be more free, and would like all to be free. I do not look to the government to personally help me; I am not a serf.

I the serfs of the world really want to stay that way, that is their business. I just remind them that all of their property the then by definition not theirs; neither is there health, work, money, children, and choices. You have given that to your patron for a decently comfortable shackle. I hope you are happy with your choice, because it is a very hard one to recant.

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Mcupobob]

did anyone hear that frog?

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Because I don't want to have to pay your bills, you cant afford it to bad

Here here! Why the fuck should I pay for someone else? This just makes no sense to me. Not in America buddy, leave that shit on the other side of the pond.

You do realize what the fuck your taxes are for right? Yuo do realize when your house is burgled and you call the police that you are spending other peoples money? Maybe if your house catches fire people don't want to pay for the bill the fire service gives to the government who uses tax payer money to pay the firemen for their work...

Actually I am one of those individuals who loves their second amendment. There will likely be no phone call to the worthless cops as I will have shot the shit out of anyone who thinks they can rob me. See this is case in point, don't rely in the government because you get shit service. Do it yourself! =D

And when your neighbors call because they heard gunshots from your residence and police are sent to investigate your residence, and then afterwards have to clean up the body, as well as call an ambulance for the now dead man, then they have to pay someone via government (Taxpayer) money to file this man as deceased, as well as the doctors that confirmed him dead, as well as the cleaning service that is government mandated for murder/homocide/suicide/self defense cleanup where the victim has died being sent to your home.. yep... I don't see ANYWHERE where other peoples tax payers dollars are going towards this scenario...

You are still considering local (state) taxes as a government run operation. These aren't one and the same, you know...

The same exact thing. Where do the states get funding from? The government (And private donators). Where does the Government get money? Well they sure as hell don't hold a huge bake sale, so obviously it is from taxes.

 

[Low Key]

And what does the health care plan, mixed with the "You must have health care" law do? It means illegal immigrants are not covered AT ALL (Save for the ones who have done a damn good job forging certificates and such) AND will be fined for not having health care that they cannot recieve which means less tax payer money going into health care and some more illegal immigrants hard earned cash paying for everyone instead. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Illegal is in the fucking name! Meaning they are not meant to be here! This is like claiming someone posing as a citizen but is actually a terrorist means America supports terrorism XD

How the fuck do you fine someone who doesn't have a social security number in this country? Please tell me. They can't even find the fuckers to kick them out.

Actually just wait, "comprehensive" immigration reform is next on the list. They will be covered cause our socialist leader so loves everyone that he's gonna make them all magically "legal". Hooray for bankruptcy!

I can hardly wait...

 

[Mr Wednesday]

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

It pains me to use this argument twice, but it got flatly ignored last time, so here goes.

You'd turn away police help then?

 

[WhiteTiger225]

It is completely, at least for me, about freedom. If you want to or do receive medicine from your government, you are a serf. I'm not saying serfs are bad people, but they are not (in the full sense) free people. They have a patron government to whom they trade freedom for comfort.

In the American Republic as it started (it has gone downhill since) one was free. They looked to the government for nothing but to handle the things of the people (res publica) and owed the government virtually nothing. Remember that the US Constitution originally banned federal income tax; that took an amendment.

I oppose the expansion of any government program as a default position. I do this not because I am daft, ignorant, or indoctrinated. I do so because I am free, would like to be more free, and would like all to be free. I do not look to the government to personally help me; I am not a serf.

I the serfs of the world really want to stay that way, that is their business. I just remind them that all of their property the then by definition not theirs; neither is there health, work, money, children, and choices. You have given that to your patron for a decently comfortable shackle. I hope you are happy with your choice, because it is a very hard one to recant.

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

Thats nice dear, but some people don't have that luxury.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Because I don't want to have to pay your bills, you cant afford it to bad

Here here! Why the fuck should I pay for someone else? This just makes no sense to me. Not in America buddy, leave that shit on the other side of the pond.

You do realize what the fuck your taxes are for right? Yuo do realize when your house is burgled and you call the police that you are spending other peoples money? Maybe if your house catches fire people don't want to pay for the bill the fire service gives to the government who uses tax payer money to pay the firemen for their work...

Actually I am one of those individuals who loves their second amendment. There will likely be no phone call to the worthless cops as I will have shot the shit out of anyone who thinks they can rob me. See this is case in point, don't rely in the government because you get shit service. Do it yourself! =D

And when your neighbors call because they heard gunshots from your residence and police are sent to investigate your residence, and then afterwards have to clean up the body, as well as call an ambulance for the now dead man, then they have to pay someone via government (Taxpayer) money to file this man as deceased, as well as the doctors that confirmed him dead, as well as the cleaning service that is government mandated for murder/homocide/suicide/self defense cleanup where the victim has died being sent to your home.. yep... I don't see ANYWHERE where other peoples tax payers dollars are going towards this scenario...

You are still considering local (state) taxes as a government run operation. These aren't one and the same, you know...

The same exact thing. Where do the states get funding from? The government (And private donators). Where does the Government get money? Well they sure as hell don't hold a huge bake sale, so obviously it is from taxes.

You just proved your ignorance.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

It pains me to use this argument twice, but it got flatly ignored last time, so here goes.

You'd turn away police help then?

^ This. Exactly this.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Because I don't want to have to pay your bills, you cant afford it to bad

Here here! Why the fuck should I pay for someone else? This just makes no sense to me. Not in America buddy, leave that shit on the other side of the pond.

You do realize what the fuck your taxes are for right? Yuo do realize when your house is burgled and you call the police that you are spending other peoples money? Maybe if your house catches fire people don't want to pay for the bill the fire service gives to the government who uses tax payer money to pay the firemen for their work...

Actually I am one of those individuals who loves their second amendment. There will likely be no phone call to the worthless cops as I will have shot the shit out of anyone who thinks they can rob me. See this is case in point, don't rely in the government because you get shit service. Do it yourself! =D

And when your neighbors call because they heard gunshots from your residence and police are sent to investigate your residence, and then afterwards have to clean up the body, as well as call an ambulance for the now dead man, then they have to pay someone via government (Taxpayer) money to file this man as deceased, as well as the doctors that confirmed him dead, as well as the cleaning service that is government mandated for murder/homocide/suicide/self defense cleanup where the victim has died being sent to your home.. yep... I don't see ANYWHERE where other peoples tax payers dollars are going towards this scenario...

You are still considering local (state) taxes as a government run operation. These aren't one and the same, you know...

The same exact thing. Where do the states get funding from? The government (And private donators). Where does the Government get money? Well they sure as hell don't hold a huge bake sale, so obviously it is from taxes.

You just proved your ignorance.

Oh? Please elaborate rather then claim ignorance and show actual evidence or claims to defend your side rather then taking the Cartman approach "Screw you guys! I'm, goin home!"

 

[Cliff_m85]

It is completely, at least for me, about freedom. If you want to or do receive medicine from your government, you are a serf. I'm not saying serfs are bad people, but they are not (in the full sense) free people. They have a patron government to whom they trade freedom for comfort.

In the American Republic as it started (it has gone downhill since) one was free. They looked to the government for nothing but to handle the things of the people (res publica) and owed the government virtually nothing. Remember that the US Constitution originally banned federal income tax; that took an amendment.

I oppose the expansion of any government program as a default position. I do this not because I am daft, ignorant, or indoctrinated. I do so because I am free, would like to be more free, and would like all to be free. I do not look to the government to personally help me; I am not a serf.

I the serfs of the world really want to stay that way, that is their business. I just remind them that all of their property the then by definition not theirs; neither is there health, work, money, children, and choices. You have given that to your patron for a decently comfortable shackle. I hope you are happy with your choice, because it is a very hard one to recant.

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

Thats nice dear, but some people don't have that luxury.

Cut a ton of taxes and what happens? People have more money to afford shit.

 

[Mcupobob]

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

It pains me to use this argument twice, but it got flatly ignored last time, so here goes.

You'd turn away police help then?

I would turn away poilce. The police are just as currupt as the goverment, or should I say a tool...
Anyways I use a gun its quicker.

 

[jpoon]

Because I don't want to have to pay your bills, you cant afford it to bad

Here here! Why the fuck should I pay for someone else? This just makes no sense to me. Not in America buddy, leave that shit on the other side of the pond.

You do realize what the fuck your taxes are for right? Yuo do realize when your house is burgled and you call the police that you are spending other peoples money? Maybe if your house catches fire people don't want to pay for the bill the fire service gives to the government who uses tax payer money to pay the firemen for their work...

Actually I am one of those individuals who loves their second amendment. There will likely be no phone call to the worthless cops as I will have shot the shit out of anyone who thinks they can rob me. See this is case in point, don't rely in the government because you get shit service. Do it yourself! =D

And when your neighbors call because they heard gunshots from your residence and police are sent to investigate your residence, and then afterwards have to clean up the body, as well as call an ambulance for the now dead man, then they have to pay someone via government (Taxpayer) money to file this man as deceased, as well as the doctors that confirmed him dead, as well as the cleaning service that is government mandated for murder/homocide/suicide/self defense cleanup where the victim has died being sent to your home.. yep... I don't see ANYWHERE where other peoples tax payers dollars are going towards this scenario...

You are still considering local (state) taxes as a government run operation. These aren't one and the same, you know...

The same exact thing. Where do the states get funding from? The government (And private donators). Where does the Government get money? Well they sure as hell don't hold a huge bake sale, so obviously it is from taxes.

Oh yes, but this is an issue of locality. These are state taxes for funding of services (that I generally don't make use of but appreciate having anyways) which I don't have much problem supporting. However supporting a country wide tax to insure everyone in the whole US with a service that's likely inefficient and low quality. There's where I have a problem.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

I've gone through a few years of private insurance trying left and right to deny me the coverage they're being paid to give me. They wanted me to foot the bill on 250 dollar medication that they cover because they would change their policy and expectations of what I had to do to be covered MONTHLY.

You know what? I don't give a shit if public health care is lower quality on average. Put simply, public health care couldn't in any way be worse then what I'm already going through with a health care plan that costs near thousands a month a month to cover a family.

I also have friends who simply can't afford private health care and they're dying without medication they should be getting but can't afford. Its not through any fault of their own; pharmaceutical companies charge ludicrous ammounts of money for medications they need and they don't have jobs that supply health care to them.

Why do they do it? I think its less based on the fact of how much it costs to produce and more on the fact that they can say 'What? You're not gonna pay for it? Have fun dying then.' when someone refuses to buy.

The current system in America is sick and needs to change. I hope that these companies don't get their way for my health and the health of my friends.

I suffer from depression that gets so bad, I tried to kill myself on numerous occasion, the depression is caused by an inbalance in a certain chemical in my brain which prevents my body when it becomes unbalanced from producing endorphines (Meaning I cannot feel true happyness sometimes) this expensive medication I take fixes this... but I havent had it for 6 weeks because I have a choice of having medication and living on the streets, or having a home...

Is there any way I can help you? I personally give to charity all the time. I like doing so. It makes me feel good about myself.

But what we're talking about is not charity. It's not "should I give this young man some money to help?" and deciding yes and tossing some cash your way or saying no and walking off. It's forced. I would legally be obligated to give you money or get thrown in jail. That is not charity and you should not be proud of someone robbing for you.

Just like if I am on the same medical coverage plan as you are (Private) My money goes to pay for you everytime you visit a doctor. See? Same shit, just different runner of it.

 

[The Bandit]

This. I don't want to be dependent on the government, in any way, shape, or form.

It pains me to use this argument twice, but it got flatly ignored last time, so here goes.

You'd turn away police help then?

What do you think a government is for? It's only logical, or maybe more precisely, absolutely necessary service, is to be a police force. It's job is to protect the rights of individuals. So, no, I obviously wouldn't, sense that's exactly what I see the government as- da po-leece.

And to whoever called me dear- fuck you. It's condescending and I don't appreciate it.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Because I don't want to have to pay your bills, you cant afford it to bad

Here here! Why the fuck should I pay for someone else? This just makes no sense to me. Not in America buddy, leave that shit on the other side of the pond.

You do realize what the fuck your taxes are for right? Yuo do realize when your house is burgled and you call the police that you are spending other peoples money? Maybe if your house catches fire people don't want to pay for the bill the fire service gives to the government who uses tax payer money to pay the firemen for their work...

Actually I am one of those individuals who loves their second amendment. There will likely be no phone call to the worthless cops as I will have shot the shit out of anyone who thinks they can rob me. See this is case in point, don't rely in the government because you get shit service. Do it yourself! =D

And when your neighbors call because they heard gunshots from your residence and police are sent to investigate your residence, and then afterwards have to clean up the body, as well as call an ambulance for the now dead man, then they have to pay someone via government (Taxpayer) money to file this man as deceased, as well as the doctors that confirmed him dead, as well as the cleaning service that is government mandated for murder/homocide/suicide/self defense cleanup where the victim has died being sent to your home.. yep... I don't see ANYWHERE where other peoples tax payers dollars are going towards this scenario...

You are still considering local (state) taxes as a government run operation. These aren't one and the same, you know...

The same exact thing. Where do the states get funding from? The government (And private donators). Where does the Government get money? Well they sure as hell don't hold a huge bake sale, so obviously it is from taxes.

You just proved your ignorance.

Oh? Please elaborate rather then claim ignorance and show actual evidence or claims to defend your side rather then taking the Cartman approach "Screw you guys! I'm, goin home!"

I don't see how I can. If you honestly believe local and national governmental systems are the exact same thing then I don't know how exactly to convince you otherwise. It's basic civics. National government costs more and covers alot more of an area, local has taxes as well which are gotten from the citizens of the local area or state (not from the national government). The area of corruption grows as the sphere of power grows.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I've gone through a few years of private insurance trying left and right to deny me the coverage they're being paid to give me. They wanted me to foot the bill on 250 dollar medication that they cover because they would change their policy and expectations of what I had to do to be covered MONTHLY.

You know what? I don't give a shit if public health care is lower quality on average. Put simply, public health care couldn't in any way be worse then what I'm already going through with a health care plan that costs near thousands a month a month to cover a family.

I also have friends who simply can't afford private health care and they're dying without medication they should be getting but can't afford. Its not through any fault of their own; pharmaceutical companies charge ludicrous ammounts of money for medications they need and they don't have jobs that supply health care to them.

Why do they do it? I think its less based on the fact of how much it costs to produce and more on the fact that they can say 'What? You're not gonna pay for it? Have fun dying then.' when someone refuses to buy.

The current system in America is sick and needs to change. I hope that these companies don't get their way for my health and the health of my friends.

I suffer from depression that gets so bad, I tried to kill myself on numerous occasion, the depression is caused by an inbalance in a certain chemical in my brain which prevents my body when it becomes unbalanced from producing endorphines (Meaning I cannot feel true happyness sometimes) this expensive medication I take fixes this... but I havent had it for 6 weeks because I have a choice of having medication and living on the streets, or having a home...

Is there any way I can help you? I personally give to charity all the time. I like doing so. It makes me feel good about myself.

But what we're talking about is not charity. It's not "should I give this young man some money to help?" and deciding yes and tossing some cash your way or saying no and walking off. It's forced. I would legally be obligated to give you money or get thrown in jail. That is not charity and you should not be proud of someone robbing for you.

Just like if I am on the same medical coverage plan as you are (Private) My money goes to pay for you everytime you visit a doctor. See? Same shit, just different runner of it.

I don't have insurance. I am getting a HSA though, much more logical and prevents government interferance.

 

[BladesofReason]

Without the people who take time to learn the skills to give them there so called "extension of life" then they would not get healthcare at all. What i'm trying to say is that someone deserves the money and credit for providing medican and healthcare, they essentail own the right to there own skills and discoverys not the people.

I understand your concern that the doctors get paid for their very necessary work, and I agree; they should be paid. With a public option they still would be. Doctors themselves have to spend a great deal of time working with insurance companies to make sure they are paid what they are owed.

The problem as I see it is that the insurance companies are essentially free to charge and/or pay whatever they want, choosing when and where to pay for customer bills. If they decide, for whatever reason to refuse to pay for a customer's procedure and the patient cannot pay for it themselves then the doctors won't get paid anyway. It's a very tricky situation.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

And what does the health care plan, mixed with the "You must have health care" law do? It means illegal immigrants are not covered AT ALL (Save for the ones who have done a damn good job forging certificates and such) AND will be fined for not having health care that they cannot recieve which means less tax payer money going into health care and some more illegal immigrants hard earned cash paying for everyone instead. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Illegal is in the fucking name! Meaning they are not meant to be here! This is like claiming someone posing as a citizen but is actually a terrorist means America supports terrorism XD

How the fuck do you fine someone who doesn't have a social security number in this country? Please tell me. They can't even find the fuckers to kick them out.

Actually just wait, "comprehensive" immigration reform is next on the list. They will be covered cause our socialist leader so loves everyone that he's gonna make them all magically "legal". Hooray for bankruptcy!

I can hardly wait...

Well lets see. Denied coverage, lack of social security number, a fine, and deportation... yeah I think that kinda solves the problem...

And I love the bankruptcy statement, it is SO cute ^.^ People act like a .1% increase in taxes, or even 1% tax increase would cause bankruptcy. Not at ALL the oversaturation of the job market, or the war draining billions in government reserves to the point we are now in a trillion dollar deficet due 95% to the war draining resources like mad... nope.. can't be that at all it MUST be Obama.. even though he just joined recently and hasnt enacted shit yet yet somehow we are still in bankruptcy before this idea even came out... hmm...

 

[ChaosTheory3133]

I really don't know why people are defending the largely unfair private healthcare industry, I guess simple people like to be ripped off. We're the only nation in the world that pays for our healthcare out of our own pocket, and its not even higher quality healthcare. (MYTH: United States does NOT have the number 1 healthcare in the world, we are in fact 37th. France is #1.) We spend 16% of our GDP on healthcare and in fact are already IN a system that is "socialized" that people are ALREADY paying for. The fact that anyone can walk into any hospital and get treatment, albiet poor and overly expensive treatment that is the #1 cause of mortgage foreclosures and bankruptcy for people, but treatment none the less. This is self evident that the belief of healthcare is NOT a privilege as some of the escapists on here try to make it sound, this is proof that we believe that healthcare IS A RIGHT! Why people want to continue to buy into Private insurance out of some misguided preconceived notion that it is somehow better because you're paying more for it or can afford to have it as opposed to the other 80% that can't get it because of "Pre-existing Condition" (Not ANYONEs fault) or they don't work for a Big Company.
Simply put, I think the opposition is more concerned on conceding our free market in favor of universal healthcare. I'd think of it this way, while your insurance may be alright now, what happens if you get suddenly get sick and start collecting more insurance than the private insurance company wants to pay, then raises your premiums to the point where you can't pay them, if they don't just cut you off completely. Higher taxes doesn't even nearly add up for the individual to the amount that you are being charged for healthcare at this given point in time.
Anyways, who's going to read and change their minds based off what one Forum Troll that simply loves humanity enough that he's willing to pay a little more so more people can be healthy? In what respect is that evil?