Vague case warrens The death penalty

Recommended Videos

Haagrum

New member
May 3, 2010
188
0
0
On what I've been able to find out:

(1) There's no physical evidence of Troy Davis' involvement in the offence - which means the case against him is largely circumstantial. Shell casings have been found, and the link made to another offence for which Davis was convicted... but that doesn't exclude the possibility that another person with a similar firearm could not have been involved.

(2) Several witnesses have recanted their statements, and of the two who have not, one is suspected of having been involved in the murder. Without knowing more, this doesn't seem like strong enough evidence to support a unanimous verdict of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

(3) The victim was an off-duty police officer working as a security guard. IMO, the victim's occupation cannot be a justification for imposing a higher sentence unless they were killed either in the course of their duties, or *because* of their occupation. Yes, it's awful that Mr McPhail was killed. However, I believe that the fact that he was a police officer is immaterial to the facts of this case and can't justify a higher sentence on that basis.

(4) The parole board gave more time to the victim's family than Mr Davis's advocates in the last round of hearings. When the principal argument being made appears to be that "we're sure it's him" and "we need justice", you lose any objectivity in regard to what is appropriate. Vengeance is not justice - especially if there are doubts about the evidence used to convict a person.

Leaving aside my personal and absolute objection to the death penalty (which is not the topic), I fail to see how this matter can warrant a sentence of execution.

There are genuine doubts about the evidence which was presented at trial, although I accept that this is not as clear-cut as a lot of Davis's supporters allege. Although it's improper to reopen the case on the basis of an argument that the jury placed weight on the wrong evidence, I hardly see how it can be justifiable to refuse to grant a stay of execution pending argument concerning whether that evidence should even have been presented. I'm astonished that the US Supreme Court held that Davis had to establish his actual innocence to succeed at appeal when the basis of criminal prosecution is that the state needs to prove its case.

Were I more cynical, I might suggest that the reluctance to grant executive clemency (even to commute the sentence to life imprisonment) is politically motivated ahead of an election year.
 

YawningAngel

New member
Dec 22, 2010
368
0
0
I fail to see how the initial case could ever have been proven "beyond reasonable doubt". Whilst the appeals process has satisfied the letter of the law, this entire affair demonstrates: 1. poor people in the US get fucked over because they can't afford good lawyers and 2. putting the burden of proof on the accused in appeals is plain dumb.
 

Staskala

New member
Sep 28, 2010
537
0
0
According to AP his execution was halted last minute as the Supreme Court will now reconsider the decision.
Of course, being only halted, not called off, it can resume at any time, but at least its some form of hope in this rather depressing case.
 

shadyh8er

New member
Apr 28, 2010
1,778
0
0
Huh, so that's what all those protesters were doing outside of the Capitol this morning.

What scares me though is that I want to become a lawyer. Is this the kind of shit I'll have to do when I become one?
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
5,178
0
0
thebobmaster said:
Just adding something you seem to have forgotten about. Not everyone who is convicted actually committed the crime. Keep that in mind.
True, which is why this thread exists.

That said, the onus for that lies with the courts, not the penal system. Punishment should be just that, punishing. There should be no regard paid for prisoners privacy or decency. They should get a 6'x6'x8' metal box, a bed, a toilet and 3 square meals a day. Nothing more, and nothing less.

If people are wrongly convicted, then the reform needs to take place at the judicial and sentencing level. Not in the prison itself.
 

cookyy2k

Senior Member
Aug 14, 2009
799
0
21
Been granted a delay to the execution while the supreme court decide what to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-police-killer-wins-execution-delay-235143669.html

Also note how it's reported "US Police Killer 'Wins Execution Delay'", yahoo news is getting more and more right wing every day...
 

WickedSkin

New member
Feb 15, 2008
615
0
0
Fuck death penalty. It doesn't work as a detergent, no government should have the right to kill a citizen and a courtroom is still full of people. Oh yes the judge is a person.

This guy needs to be moved out of death row. If he is also innocent he should be MASSIVELY compensated.

cookyy2k said:
Been granted a delay to the execution while the supreme court decide what to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-police-killer-wins-execution-delay-235143669.html

Also note how it's reported "US Police Killer 'Wins Execution Delay'", yahoo news is getting more and more right wing every day...
They're not being right wingish, just very very stupid. They are making the right wing look bad. Most of those supporting death penalties and at the same time calling themselves right-wing-folk does.
 

Esotera

New member
May 5, 2011
3,400
0
0
usmarine4160 said:
In related racist related things, Lawrence Brewer was executed today in Texas. Though he totally deserved it, epic last meal though.

two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, fried okra, a pound of barbecue, three fajitas, a pint of ice cream, a meat lover's pizza and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.
Meals like that are the main reason that the death penalty isn't an effective deterrent. It's even tempting me.

OT: This really sucks. Eyewitness testimony was shown to be unreliable years ago, it shouldn't be allowed to determine whether someone lives or dies without highly certain forensic evidence to back it up.
 

cookyy2k

Senior Member
Aug 14, 2009
799
0
21
WickedSkin said:
Fuck death penalty. It doesn't work as a detergent, no government should have the right to kill a citizen and a courtroom is still full of people. Oh yes the judge is a person.

This guy needs to be moved out of death row. If he is also innocent he should be MASSIVELY compensated.

cookyy2k said:
Been granted a delay to the execution while the supreme court decide what to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-police-killer-wins-execution-delay-235143669.html

Also note how it's reported "US Police Killer 'Wins Execution Delay'", yahoo news is getting more and more right wing every day...
They're not being right wingish, just very very stupid. They are making the right wing look bad. Most of those supporting death penalties and at the same time calling themselves right-wing-folk does.
Granted, but I'm more meaning the sensationalist headline, it's worded to instantly get the reader against this guy without any of the detail that the reader would have to search for and/or read between the lines for.
 

WickedSkin

New member
Feb 15, 2008
615
0
0
cookyy2k said:
WickedSkin said:
Fuck death penalty. It doesn't work as a detergent, no government should have the right to kill a citizen and a courtroom is still full of people. Oh yes the judge is a person.

This guy needs to be moved out of death row. If he is also innocent he should be MASSIVELY compensated.

cookyy2k said:
Been granted a delay to the execution while the supreme court decide what to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-police-killer-wins-execution-delay-235143669.html

Also note how it's reported "US Police Killer 'Wins Execution Delay'", yahoo news is getting more and more right wing every day...
They're not being right wingish, just very very stupid. They are making the right wing look bad. Most of those supporting death penalties and at the same time calling themselves right-wing-folk does.
Granted, but I'm more meaning the sensationalist headline, it's worded to instantly get the reader against this guy without any of the detail that the reader would have to search for and/or read between the lines for.
Granted. That is why you should take EVERYTHING the media tells you with a big spoon of salt. They are just trying to sell to you one way or another. Sensationalist headlines are very effective in that way. Works just like you described it.

It'd almost be boring to read something that wasn't skewed one way or the other XD
 

cookyy2k

Senior Member
Aug 14, 2009
799
0
21
WickedSkin said:
cookyy2k said:
WickedSkin said:
Fuck death penalty. It doesn't work as a detergent, no government should have the right to kill a citizen and a courtroom is still full of people. Oh yes the judge is a person.

This guy needs to be moved out of death row. If he is also innocent he should be MASSIVELY compensated.

cookyy2k said:
Been granted a delay to the execution while the supreme court decide what to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-police-killer-wins-execution-delay-235143669.html

Also note how it's reported "US Police Killer 'Wins Execution Delay'", yahoo news is getting more and more right wing every day...
They're not being right wingish, just very very stupid. They are making the right wing look bad. Most of those supporting death penalties and at the same time calling themselves right-wing-folk does.
Granted, but I'm more meaning the sensationalist headline, it's worded to instantly get the reader against this guy without any of the detail that the reader would have to search for and/or read between the lines for.
Granted. That is why you should take EVERYTHING the media tells you with a big spoon of salt. They are just trying to sell to you one way or another. Sensationalist headlines are very effective in that way. Works just like you described it.

It'd almost be boring to read something that wasn't skewed one way or the other XD
That's were my accusations of yahoo news getting right wing came from, they have been getting a larger and larger bias towards the right. It's not a bad thing as I'm getting so fed up of pinco lefties all over the place in this country (UK), but if you go look at a yahoo message board it always tends to be about how muslims want to kill everyone and how their is no such thing as a good immigrant, I really don't get why people need to live at one extreme.
 

WickedSkin

New member
Feb 15, 2008
615
0
0
cookyy2k said:
WickedSkin said:
That's were my accusations of yahoo news getting right wing came from, they have been getting a larger and larger bias towards the right. It's not a bad thing as I'm getting so fed up of pinco lefties all over the place in this country (UK), but if you go look at a yahoo message board it always tends to be about how muslims want to kill everyone and how their is no such thing as a good immigrant, I really don't get why people need to live at one extreme.
If one were really VERY extremely right wing one would think immigration is a good thing and the death penalty is a very bad thing. What they are doing is called fascism/nationalism. Or right-wing popular plus.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

New member
May 22, 2010
7,370
0
0
shadyh8er said:
Huh, so that's what all those protesters were doing outside of the Capitol this morning.

What scares me though is that I want to become a lawyer. Is this the kind of shit I'll have to do when I become one?
And the answer is, yes. My mother is a law student, and she interned at the Public Defender's office over the Summer. You would not believe the lies they caught cops telling to get a conviction.

OT: Cases like this are one of the biggest reasons I'm against the death penalty. The biggest is that I simply don't believe in a crime so large that society gains the right to take a person's life[footnote]Unless they're actively trying to kill someone else and it's the only way to prevent it; basically, if the victim is already dead, you can't make them deader, nor will killing someone else bring them back. But then that's not the death penalty, that's an individual defending himself from an attack in the heat of the moment. One of these is justified self defense. The other is cold blooded murder.[/footnote], but this example shows why I wouldn't support it even if I did believe that. And you know what? We do it All. The. Time. Innocent people are executed constantly, and it's just sickening.
 

cookyy2k

Senior Member
Aug 14, 2009
799
0
21
What always seems to escape a lot of minds in these (and many other) cases is that the sentence is not for revenge but for the protection of others from a perceived threat and hopefully rehabilitation of an offender so they wont transgress again.

I think this every time you see a family on tv moaning some drunk driver who killed someone only getting a tiny sentence even though they killed such and such a body. Well the drunk driver may well not have realised there would be consequences or thought that they'd be fine and accidentally hit someone. Where they doing the wrong thing? Absolutely. Do they deserve to be thrown in jail for the rest of time for one misjudgement? No. A couple of years would be more than enough for that person to have a really good think next time they're going to jump in the car and will realise the consequences, rehabilitation in action.
 
Nov 28, 2007
10,686
0
0
usmarine4160 said:
In related racist related things, Lawrence Brewer was executed today in Texas. Though he totally deserved it, epic last meal though.

two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, fried okra, a pound of barbecue, three fajitas, a pint of ice cream, a meat lover's pizza and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.
Wow...I'd hate to be in that room after the man died. Remember, all muscles relax upon death. Including the ones in your backside. Yeah. Fun for the executioners.
 

SadakoMoose

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2009
1,200
0
41
Agayek said:
weker said:
it's the sentencing which is causing the costs more then anything.
videoing the event would reduce costs, but it would be to primitive to be allowed in civilized society, the man on death row should at least have some decency.
I'll be honest, if someone committed a crime severe enough to warrant an execution, he no longer has any decency to lose. If he bitches about it, he should have thought of it before he killed someone.

The fact of the matter is, criminals do not deserve sympathy or empathy. They made the choice to commit a crime, and therefore their opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

Personally, I think executions should be done old school style. After the guy's last appeal is denied, drag him out front of the courthouse and shoot him in the back of the end. Problem solved. The PPV thing does have some potential though, because then the state might actually break even on it.
You sir, and people who think as you do, need to be deported.
I don't want to even live in the same country as people that think the same way as you.
The fact that you vote disturbs me.
America has only one way to go and that is forward. If you cannot also move in this direction, and wish to believe and say things like that, then you should get out of the way.
You wouldn't be talking so tough if you had to see death up close.
 

alik44

New member
Sep 11, 2010
630
0
0
I am sad to announce that Mr troy Davis has been executed even though they put the execution on hold at 7pm to wait for the news from the supreme court. apparently it did not go through and they executed him....so yeah in Georgia no matter how doubtful your case is u can still get the death penalty apparently....and there goes my respect in the US justice system