Valve: Been shooting themselves in the foot lately.
- Thread starter Agiel7
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ROFLMAO!!!ZeroMachine said:
I'm never gona look at that title the same way again.
Never noticed it could be interpreted as L4-D2 lol
I do admit that Valve's made a few mistakes these past few weeks, but their far from sold out. Yeah, their new update system was convoluted, but they brought back milestones just a week or so after everyone complained. And you know what? If everyone complains that they want Ep3 over L4D2, Valve will probably get the picture and get cranking on Episode 3, maybe even release a trailer.
Making mistakes =/= selling out.
Making mistakes =/= selling out.
They know what they're doing. They're Valve, one of the best game companies ever.
Just give 'em time. You'll be happy.
Just give 'em time. You'll be happy.
I don't mean to sound mean (unintentional pun), nor do I hope to sound like a fanboy, because I'm not, but be happy Left 4 Dead is getting a good sequel in a short amount of time.
Left 4 Dead is an awesome game, don't get me wrong. It was really fun to kill incoming zombies running at you. (If I could only count the times I suffered at the hands of the Tank..) But I'm sick of hearing all of these complaints about the new game.
Using the boycott's manifesto as a guideline, I'll tell people why they shouldn't complain.
1) Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered.
What's content from one game compared to a whole new game from the same series made by the same developers?
2) Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release.
Most people complain about the long time it takes to make a game (ex: Duke Nukem Forever, which got cancelled) You're getting a sequel in 7 MONTHS!
3) The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games.
Nearly, but not exactly, identical. Be glad Valve is not doing what Sega is. (ex: Ruining the series, like Sonic, or re-releasing the same games over and over, a-la House of the Dead series)
4) The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes.
It's using the same engine as L4D. All they need is a great story, good levels, new characters, weapons, etc.
5) The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far.
Key words: so far. All games go through development. This may be the forerunners to the actual designs. However, I do agree: the characters seem bland so far.
6) L4D2 is too colorful to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic.
Think of setting. L4D took place in Pennsylvania in what i assume is winter. Of course it's going to look dark. L4D2 takes place in the South, in Summer. Of course it's going to look bright.
7) The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome.
Again, think setting. It takes place in the South. Stereotypically thought of somewhere with square-dancing, which I think has the fiddle. (I did like the original horde music, though)
8) L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before.
Of course that's going to happen. It happens to most games, like Halo 2. When it came out, Bungie released downloadable content for it. When Halo 3 came out, Bungie released DLC for THAT, and "abandoned" Halo 2. It happens.
9) The community has lost faith in Valve's former reputation for commitment to their games post-release.
You mean to tell me that you're boycotting L4D2 for that? L4D2 ruined Valve's reputation? Not likely. Are you forgetting the other games Valve released? Left 4 Dead, the Half-Life series, Portal. Those are good games, and releasing Left 4 Dead 2 early destroyed what Valve has done? Again, not likely.
Left 4 Dead 2 will be a great game. As said on a related forum, "I hate this hate for Valve" (which is really well-written), "fanboys need something to whine about".
Left 4 Dead is an awesome game, don't get me wrong. It was really fun to kill incoming zombies running at you. (If I could only count the times I suffered at the hands of the Tank..) But I'm sick of hearing all of these complaints about the new game.
Using the boycott's manifesto as a guideline, I'll tell people why they shouldn't complain.
1) Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered.
What's content from one game compared to a whole new game from the same series made by the same developers?
2) Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release.
Most people complain about the long time it takes to make a game (ex: Duke Nukem Forever, which got cancelled) You're getting a sequel in 7 MONTHS!
3) The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games.
Nearly, but not exactly, identical. Be glad Valve is not doing what Sega is. (ex: Ruining the series, like Sonic, or re-releasing the same games over and over, a-la House of the Dead series)
4) The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes.
It's using the same engine as L4D. All they need is a great story, good levels, new characters, weapons, etc.
5) The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far.
Key words: so far. All games go through development. This may be the forerunners to the actual designs. However, I do agree: the characters seem bland so far.
6) L4D2 is too colorful to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic.
Think of setting. L4D took place in Pennsylvania in what i assume is winter. Of course it's going to look dark. L4D2 takes place in the South, in Summer. Of course it's going to look bright.
7) The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome.
Again, think setting. It takes place in the South. Stereotypically thought of somewhere with square-dancing, which I think has the fiddle. (I did like the original horde music, though)
8) L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before.
Of course that's going to happen. It happens to most games, like Halo 2. When it came out, Bungie released downloadable content for it. When Halo 3 came out, Bungie released DLC for THAT, and "abandoned" Halo 2. It happens.
9) The community has lost faith in Valve's former reputation for commitment to their games post-release.
You mean to tell me that you're boycotting L4D2 for that? L4D2 ruined Valve's reputation? Not likely. Are you forgetting the other games Valve released? Left 4 Dead, the Half-Life series, Portal. Those are good games, and releasing Left 4 Dead 2 early destroyed what Valve has done? Again, not likely.
Left 4 Dead 2 will be a great game. As said on a related forum, "I hate this hate for Valve" (which is really well-written), "fanboys need something to whine about".
This is Valve we are talking about,it took them 9 years to make TF2,and 4 years until Half-Life 2 was released.Agiel7 said:
Your point?Halfbreed13 said:
5000 people really ain't that much. Besides, I bet half those people joined right after seeing the Left 4 Dead 2 trailer, before even looking into Left 4 Dead 2.
If I've learned anything about Valve fans it's that they always complain about anything Valve does. If you don't like the game, then don't buy it. Again, money speaks louder than words. Do you really think they will just drop everything they have worked on just because some people are crying about it? It isn't that simple.
That doesn't make sense.Xbowhyena said:
If it's just to early, then don't buy it until later on. If that's your reason then you should be glad it comes out this early. Then when you feel like buying it will be at a cheaper price.
This is worse than when people said that Nintendo abandoned them.It's worse because they are actually giving you more games to play and you are complaining.
Word on the street is that EA cracked the Whip on this sequel, which is why it is coming out so soon. Either way I hope it will be good. As for Episode 3, just play something else, it will come soon enough.
Word on the street is that EA cracked the Whip on this sequel, which is why it is coming out so soon. Either way I hope it will be good. As for Episode 3, just play something else, it will come soon enough.
Seriously, I don't give a shit about morons whining about betrayal because of a few minutes of pre-rendered footage, but these people going "It's Valve, they know what they're doing." just piss me off. I have liked (not loved) a couple of Valve's games, and hated a couple. Steam is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen, and I refuse to install it on my PC. Just because they have made some good games in the past doesn't mean they will always be angelic paragons of good quality and fair business deals. Nobody knows jack shit about L4D2, I saw the trailer myself, and it barely says anything aside from that there's 4 survivors and zombies. It could be horrible, it could be great. Don't just assume that "BUT IT'S VALVE" = 100% Great quality, guaranteed.
Valve knows what they're doing? Who doesn't? Blizzard doesn't, with their countless millions/billions? EA doesn't, with their own piles of billions of dollars in big brown bags marked "$"? Microsoft (make me laugh, please)? Indie developers are the closest to not knowing what they're doing. Everyone knows what they're doing, but barely anyone can accurately predict the results, Valve is no different. The thing that makes it easier is the droves of fans equating Valve to perfection.
And this last bit is out of spite: Portal was decent!
Valve knows what they're doing? Who doesn't? Blizzard doesn't, with their countless millions/billions? EA doesn't, with their own piles of billions of dollars in big brown bags marked "$"? Microsoft (make me laugh, please)? Indie developers are the closest to not knowing what they're doing. Everyone knows what they're doing, but barely anyone can accurately predict the results, Valve is no different. The thing that makes it easier is the droves of fans equating Valve to perfection.
And this last bit is out of spite: Portal was decent!
I'm still going to enjoy Valves games, I just want to know if they are atleast working on Episode 3.
Seeing as how it's Valve, it seems normal for games to take forever. Heck L4D2 almost seem like a hoax because it took Valve less then 4 years to start making it. I'll admit they implemented the new system in TF2 a bit hastily (they should have put a trading option in at the same time), but they put the achievement system back in for the whinny babies dedicated players so they can unlock them the old way. Valve has been doing okay for a while and I doubt if they're suddenly going to ruin themselves any time soon. Also, they have separate teams working on each game. *scowls at episode 3 team*
Here's the question I'd like to pose about the L4D2 controversy. If the content that would be made for a sequal (meaning that we have an amount of additional content equal to or exceeding that in the orginal game) were instead offered as DLC for L4D, would people complain? If not, how about if they attached a price tag of say 20 bucks. If people still say that's all well and good, would you pay 50 bucks? 60?
It just seems that, if one is going to expend the man hours (which equate to some quantity of money I'm sure) to produce a huge amount of additional content, it is not unreasonble to expect that some sort of charge is applied. Or am I the only one who doesn't think it unfair that a company wants to charge for content above and beyond what came in the box?
Now, if I were instead downloading content that was required to resolve game bugs (and nothing mroe) for a price, then I'd certainly join the picket line.
It just seems that, if one is going to expend the man hours (which equate to some quantity of money I'm sure) to produce a huge amount of additional content, it is not unreasonble to expect that some sort of charge is applied. Or am I the only one who doesn't think it unfair that a company wants to charge for content above and beyond what came in the box?
Now, if I were instead downloading content that was required to resolve game bugs (and nothing mroe) for a price, then I'd certainly join the picket line.