Vegan Superiority complex

[squeekenator]

I.E. you made a strawman that you can easily beat up.

Your argument is -the- definition of a strawman argument.

No it isn't. I never put any words into his mouth or invented some kind of false argument that I claimed he made. I simply pointed out that his logic (the exact argument he used, not one that I invented so I could attack it) could be used to justify atrocities, thus making it highly suspect, to say the least.

 

[squeekenator]

Wait, did you just compare survival instincts and preference to rape?

No, I didn't. I've already discussed this. But if you want to talk about it some more, then sure.

Rape, under no circumstances, ever, can be justified. Meat is self preservation and programmed into us to enjoy. It's cheaper and healthier than MOST vegetarian diets.

So if we enjoy it and it's good for us then it's automatically morally acceptable, regardless of what terrible impacts it may have on others? I'm fairly certain you don't actually believe that, so what are you trying to argue here?

Rape psychologically destroys an individual.

Doesn't kill them, though.

Animals have no psche, rational or sentience.

[citation needed]
Pretty much everything we would call an animal is in fact sentient, believe it or not, which is all you need in order to feel pain or fear death, and there's no reason they wouldn't do either. Both are simple instincts just like any other sense or emotion, there's nothing innately human about them. Unless you'd happily eat young children and then brag about it on the internet I don't see why rationality would come into it.

"The question is not Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"

 

[Dragunai]

Its just the nature of the beast.
Humans always have a superiority complex about something, its why we have always had a class system and hierarchies so you know your place under some and above others.

Personally I just say turn your gun on the whiners. It worked for Dick Cheney.

 

[Roybot]

We do not have a moral duty to prevent animal suffering essential for our natural existence.

In that respect then, we hold on responsibility to the nature around us which sustains that life as well? Of course we do. You want to know why? It affects us too. The reciprocity should be there with nature because that balance is what keeps us alive before our need for meat does. If we don't have enough animals dying on their own in the woods, we don't have enough fungus nitrogen-fixing the soil, which then means we don't have the means to keep the trees that give us oxygen.

/facepalm

First of all, our food comes from farms and factories, not the wild. The animals we kill are not part of the natural ecosystem.

We already do (or at least try to) protect our environment and ecosystems with hunting regulations, fishing regulations, wilderness protection progress, etc.

Meat production DOES affect the environment but not in the means you propose. Energy and water consumption and pollution are the real problems with meat production. Trying to overcome these issues by getting people not to eat meat is not only futile but also irresponsibly inefficient; instead we must focus on innovative, sustainable design of our livestock facilities.

This is not an affront to people who eat meat, but don't try and make eating me some moral high ground. Eating in itself shouldn't even have any moral implications unless you're being gluttonous or have something to prove with what you're eating. It's a means of living, and if it takes you having to hunt your food, engineer alternatives, or anything in between that's your business. I don't think anyone should try and superimpose their beliefs or ideals on other people unless it is solicited.

What are you talking about? Exactly how did I portray meat eating as a moral high ground? That's right, I didn't. All I did was point out that "Not eating meat to avoid animals" is not a valid argument from a moral standpoint.

Superimpose their beliefs on other people is EXACTLY what "holier-than-thou" Vegans do whenever the subject comes up. I have no problem with people being vegans, or even thinking that it's wrong to kill animals for food(even though it's not); I have a HUGE problem when they judge others based on their own, self-imposed moral standards.

I liked the spice in this before it got tangential. First let's address the "natural ecosystem" situation. Do they live on the planet or is there some terra-formed section of the moon that shelters cattle to craft the space cheese I didn't hear about? If they live here, they clearly have an impact on an ecosystem. They die, and when they die in an unhealthy fashion or before they can be processed they will be composted. Here in Texas, kids are taught about this process in high school. Cattle get shipped day in and day out and aren't really given so much as the respect of dying without be shuttled off to rot in a mass grave. What won't degrade in a timely fashion is sold off, sometimes auctioned, even made into trophies or jewelry. Again it only frightens me when we has people can't make the parallel of what we're doing to the animals, when it can't be applied to us. They live here, and some have been living these lands before we knew how to work our thumbs, yet they get the "Eat me I'm tasty" label smacked on them, meanwhile America is complaining about an "obesity" epidemic (it's just as likely for someone to catch obesity as it would for them to catch the stupid) and wondering what the deal is.

The deal is we don't treat the environment with respect, which means the environment will return the favor, and in doing so we end up not respecting ourselves. Bottom line of this discussion is, why can't we be held to some sort of respect or understanding with nature so we don't end up like the T-rex or any other evolutionary super-being fluke that didn't make it over humanity.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

As someone who grew up vegetarian and is now vegan, I used to do this all the time. Since I've grown up believing killing animals is wrong, other people doing it just horrifies and perplexes me.

I've come to realize that hating on people for eating meat is akin to those annoying religious people that tell atheists they're going to hell every chance they get. Now, I try to keep my lifestyle, but not be so douchy about it. (the key word there is try, of course

 

[Jazoni89]

I seriously don't see drinking soya milk, and eating ryvita for the rest of you're life as being superior.

In fact I find it rather silly, as you will be missing out on a lot of vital nutrition that your body needs being vegan (which may lead to a lower immune system, and deficiencies), but each to their own I guess.

 

[omega 616]

snip

The name of your last thread was "I'm a terrible person" and your chocked people ragged on you? mmmmmkay.

This one is called "Vegan Superiority complex", here's a better one "Human Superiority complex". Why is that yard yours? You paid money for it, the problem is the person you bought it off had no claim to the land anyway bar the fact humans think the world is there's.

Why are you more important that the rabbit? 'cos your smarter? 'cos your higher up the food chain? Due to us being able to make weapons were at the top of the food chain, doesn't give us the right to slaughter every other animal.

Humans sometimes say "we need to kill X amount of this animal to keep population under control" but apart from insects we out number just about every other animal by a MASSIVE margin! There's 7 billion odd of us! I doubt there's even that many sardines ... and our population just keeps growing.

I am a meat eater but I wouldn't hunt or kill for my food, want to know why? People are paid to do that for me! There's meat sitting in my local shop ready to eat, why do I need to go out and kill more of it? To prove I am a man? Call me a woman or a "******" see if I care.

I hope you go a few weeks eating nothing but rabbit ... the irony would be beautiful.

 

[gabe12301]

If you eat healthy diet with healthy amounts of meat you will general be healthier than a vegan and stronger. if anything being a vegan is a disadvantage. Unless you get vegan powers.

 

[Veroxx]

snip

*blah*

Why are you more important that the rabbit? 'cos your smarter? 'cos your higher up the food chain? Due to us being able to make weapons were at the top of the food chain, doesn't give us the right to slaughter every other animal.

Humans sometimes say "we need to kill X amount of this animal to keep population under control" but apart from insects we out number just about every other animal by a MASSIVE margin! There's 7 billion odd of us! I doubt there's even that many sardines ... and our population just keeps growing.

I am a meat eater but I wouldn't hunt or kill for my food, want to know why? People are paid to do that for me! There's meat sitting in my local shop ready to eat, why do I need to go out and kill more of it? To prove I am a man? Call me a woman or a "******" see if I care.

I can't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has asked you to prove you are a man by killing your own food, or suggest you are a woman or a "******" by not doing so unless of course they are your own PERSONAL beliefs... but I won't go putting words in your mouth.

I suggest you do your research before blindly guessing at how many we outnumber other animals by, ever heard the term "breeding like rabbits," well strangely they do breed a LOT, in some areas there can be upwards of 500 rabbits per square km.

The rabbit will live for 12 years, it will accomplish nothing except survival whereas the average human will live for about 80 years and has the potential to accomplish great feats, invention of the wheel, mastery of fire, invention of mathematics, science and philosophy, electricity, computers, the Internet. Certainly more important than just survival, certainly more intelligent too... also, last time I checked things at the top of the food chain ate things lower down in the food chain... that's what it's all about.

 

[omega 616]

I can't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has asked you to prove you are a man by killing your own food, or suggest you are a woman or a "******" by not doing so unless of course they are your own PERSONAL beliefs... but I won't go putting words in your mouth.

I suggest you do your research before blindly guessing at how many we outnumber other animals by, ever heard the term "breeding like rabbits," well strangely they do breed a LOT, in some areas there can be upwards of 500 rabbits per square km.

The rabbit will live for 12 years, it will accomplish nothing except survival whereas the average human will live for about 80 years and has the potential to accomplish great feats, invention of the wheel, mastery of fire, invention of mathematics, science and philosophy, electricity, computers, the Internet. Certainly more important than just survival, certainly more intelligent too... also, last time I checked things at the top of the food chain ate things lower down in the food chain... that's what it's all about.

I went off on a tangent.

You think there are 7 billion plus rabbits, in the world. Seriously? humans live on every single continent, from the sweaty jungles to the driest deserts to the coldest ice lands. Rabbits live in woody area's and a few live in places like yellow stone. Plus carnivores kill rabbits like crazy so there is no way rabbits out number humans. Pick another animal that you think has more than 7 billion ... not including insects (like I said in the first post).

A human will live for 80 years, destroy loads of shit and help in next to no way. All the stuff you listed has already been done by a tiny percentage of the population that there has been.

The vast majority of people will do nothing to improve there lives or anybody else's, FACT. They will live, there lives and die. One person every million MIGHT do something to better peoples lives, save a person life, cure cancer etc. The rest of us are going to do very little except make somebody else rich.

Yeah, obviously shit rolls down hill and things eat things lower down on the hierarchy that doesn't mean it has to do it to everything below it.

If a lioness sees a herd of ox or something she won't gather all her lioness friends and shred the entire herd, they won't go genocide on them. Sometimes it does happen and a species of animals gets killed off but that's not down to one animal (excpt in one case I know but even that was down to a human) and it's also evolution.

How many animals have humans made extinct or nearly have?

Like I said before, we are only at the top 'cos we know how to make weapons. Unarmed man VS a tiger, the tiger is going to win. Give us weapons and we think we own this world, we don't.

Here, watch this