Vegetarianism

[Abedeus]

1) I wasn't. You can have bad cholesterol whether you eat meat or not. LOOK AT ME! I eat tons of meat, I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. I don't have cholesterol problems.

2) Uhm. Yes, it is. You say that diet gives you EVERYTHING you need. It doesn't, stop lying it's healthy. If it was healthy and gave everything you need, you wouldn't have to take the pills.

3) Ooooh that was so mature, I feel my backbone is crying in pain and breaking!

1) Sure you don't have cholesterol problems. Yet.
2) I didn't say it gives you everything you need, but it can if you plan it right. Vitimin B12 might give you some problems, but there are ways to get it without using supplements. But, hey, whatever.

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm#reliable

1) Not every meateater (OOOH a dirty word) has cholesterol problems. Even my dad, 50 years old, has an excellent cholesterol, and he eats meat... oh Jesus, more often than I do.

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

 

[Lexodus]

Snap. Also, another point against vegetarianism is that they have a particular word for it (which means that it is against the accepted norm in society, and thus ruling out any Appeal to Nature fallacy calls). You don't have people seriously running around claiming to be flesharians or cowarians, do you?

Actually you do--a lot of people in this thread are claiming to be omnivores.

Yeah, omnivores... meaning they eat everything. Not just meat, or cows, as my examples would signify.

That's not relevant to what you said: you said "they have a particular word for it" and omnivore is a particular word. It might be a word that means you eat everything, but it's still a particular word.

And it doesn't mean you eat everything in the full sense of the word 'everything': you don't have to be a cannibal who eats broccoli to be an omnivore, do you?

Okay, this is an argument of semantics,

Forgot to bold 'is'.

but the (semantic) difference is that you don't single yourself out from the majority as an omnivore,

If the majority were vegetarians or carnivores, you would.

Yes, but they're not.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable rejecting the "Collage of Psychic Studies." Do they have any experts on phrenology?

Considering they're offering "healings" on their website... just wow.

This crap isn't accepted in mainstream psychology.

*yawn* fine a'll put effort into it.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=wIhGSrCaEYa7jAeS6ohj&ct=result&q=real+psychic+studies&btnG=Search+Books

Theres a whole WEALTH of psychic studies there for you to realise you are completely screwed in this particular debate. Dating back over a century.

Game, Set, match.

So who collects the million dollars from James Randi? Oh, right, no one. Because there are no such thing as psychics.

http://www.skepdic.com/psychic.html

Also, I checked your little book list.

"The new psychic studies in their relation to Christian thought" - Riiight. Moving on.

"The English Woman: Studies in Her Psychic Evolution‎" That's not about psychic powers at all.

"Studies in the Psychology of Sex" Same as above.

There's nothing there that is simultaneously a scientific literature and about psychic powers. What was that you said about the "game?" Can we return to reality, please?

 

[jasoncyrus]

1) Not every meateater (OOOH a dirty word) has cholesterol problems. Even my dad, 50 years old, has an excellent cholesterol, and he eats meat... oh Jesus, more often than I do.

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

Indeed, I eat meat everysingle day of my life and I have excellent cholesterol.

 

[jasoncyrus]

So who collects the million dollars from James Randi? Oh, right, no one. Because there are no such thing as psychics.

http://www.skepdic.com/psychic.html

Also, I checked your little book list.

"The new psychic studies in their relation to Christian thought" - Riiight. Moving on.

"The English Woman: Studies in Her Psychic Evolution‎" That's not about psychic powers at all.

"Studies in the Psychology of Sex" Same as above.

There's nothing there that is simultaneously a scientific literature and about psychic powers. What was that you said about the "game?"

It involves you looking farther than the first page. But you can't because you arn;t willing to admit it exists. So do us all a favor in die in a fire because I can't be bother arguing this shit with you ingrates any longer.

You may aswell get back on your soapboxes and preach veggieness while the rest of us load up our rifles and start researching where you live. *yawn*

 

[Lexodus]

Snap. Also, another point against vegetarianism is that they have a particular word for it (which means that it is against the accepted norm in society, and thus ruling out any Appeal to Nature fallacy calls). You don't have people seriously running around claiming to be flesharians or cowarians, do you?

Actually you do--a lot of people in this thread are claiming to be omnivores.

Yeah, omnivores... meaning they eat everything. Not just meat, or cows, as my examples would signify.

That's not relevant to what you said

Wait one fucking second... yes it is! I said that nobody runs around claiming to be a 'flesharian' or the like, which, if we follow the word-pattern used to describe those that only eat vegetables or those that only eat fruit, would mean that we don't eat any vegetables or fruit at all. This would ALSO be different to the norm (eating FRUIT AND VEGETABLES AND MEAT, to clarify and to prevent you from attempting to out-dumb my argument), and people would complain, as they wouldn't be getting the nutrients found in plants either. Sure, some people joke about being almost 100% carniverous, but nobody truly only eats meat. Even cannibals eat veggies and fruit sometimes

 

[Abedeus]

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

Doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. You should check the claims to see if they pop up in non-biased sources.

Sorry, I'm not going to believe a cigarette company that their product has no effects on lungs or throat. I mean, they might have non-biased sources... What would I do then?

If the majority were vegetarians or carnivores, you would.

If human had few chromosomes different, he would be a mouse. If he had few chromosomes altered, he would be a monkey. BUT HE WON'T. Majority of the people IS and always WILL BE omnivores. You know why? Because it has been like this for... wait, I said it before. But you ignored it.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

Gee, you think that people who are vegetarians might have legitimate reasons for being vegetarians? If you don't want to check out a site that gives vegans nutritional advice, then I'm not surprised that you don't understand how vegans get the nutrients they need. That's what that site's there for. Nutritional advice.

Therefore they'd explain how vegans can get vitamin B12, answering your question without propaganda.

 

[Lexodus]

If the majority were vegetarians or carnivores, you would.

Yes, but they're not.

So you assign a 'point against' people just because they 'single themselves out from the majority'?

No. This whole semantics argument was because (EDIT YOU said that everybody who said that we were designed to eat meat as well as vegetables was playing the Appeal to Nature fallacy, and I was countering that argument.

 

[Abedeus]

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

Gee, you think that people who are vegetarians might have legitimate reasons for being vegetarians? If you don't want to check out a site that gives vegans nutritional advice, then I'm not surprised that you don't understand how vegans get the nutrients they need. That's what that site's there for. Nutritional advice.

The whole site is promoting going veg. "No consequences, just eat this, this, this, even if you think it tastes like grass, you MUST eat it, because it's the only plant that has XXX and you can't eat YYY because it's meat".

I think I know why I have a migrene now. I really feel like I've been banging my head all this time. Against a concrete wall.

 

[Totaltruth]

I always wonder why people get so impassioned about eating meat...Probably all that 'you need meat to survive' propaganda out their.

Years of studying food and nutrition, plus research on the subject matter published in magazines, scientific journals, and, once, scrawled in shit on the wall of a public bathroom cubicle.

I'm sorry to say it but you are horribly misinformed. Full grown adults require eight amino acids in their diets. You can in fact get all your essential amino acids simply from corn and beans(Beans are only deficient in Methionine).

Your longer posts sources simply state unplanned vegan diets lack protein, which in itself isn't very profound. As with any unplanned or non-acted upon diet, malnutrition will occur.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

2) Sorry, vegetarian website. I won't trust it... It's bound to have only informations that prove the domination of vegs.

Gee, you think that people who are vegetarians might have legitimate reasons for being vegetarians? If you don't want to check out a site that gives vegans nutritional advice, then I'm not surprised that you don't understand how vegans get the nutrients they need. That's what that site's there for. Nutritional advice.

The whole site is promoting going veg. "No consequences, just eat this, this, this, even if you think it tastes like grass, you MUST eat it, because it's the only plant that has XXX and you can't eat YYY because it's meat".

I think I know why I have a migrene now. I really feel like I've been banging my head all this time. Against a concrete wall.

That's not what the site says at all. Here, I'll take an excerpt from the bottom for you.

Reliable Vegan Sources of Vitamin B12

A number of reliable vegan food sources for vitamin B12 are known. One brand of nutritional yeast, Red Star T-6635+, has been tested and shown to contain active vitamin B12. This brand of yeast is often labeled as Vegetarian Support Formula with or without T-6635+ in parentheses following this new name. It is a reliable source of vitamin B12. Nutritional yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast, grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste. Nutritional yeast is different from brewer?s yeast or torula yeast. those sensitive to other yeasts can often use it.

The RDA for adults for vitamin B12 is 2.4 micrograms daily (1). About 2 rounded teaspoons of large flake Vegetarian Support Formula (Red Star T-6635+) nutritional yeast provides the recommended amount of vitamin B12 for adults (2). A number of the recipes in this book contain nutritional yeast.

Another source of vitamin B12 is fortified cereal. For example, Nature?s Path Optimum Power cereal does contain vitamin B12 at this time and about a half cup of this cereal will provide 2.4 micrograms of vitamin B12 (3). We recommend checking the label of your favorite cereal since manufacturers have been known to stop including vitamin B12.

Other sources of vitamin B12 are vitamin B12 fortified soy milk, vitamin B12 fortified meat analogues (food made from wheat gluten or soybeans to resemble meat, poultry, or fish), and vitamin B12 supplements. There are vitamin supplements that do not contain animal products.

Vegans who choose to use a vitamin B12 supplement, either as a single supplement or in a multivitamin should use supplements regularly. Even though a supplement may contain many times the recommended level of vitamin B12, when vitamin B12 intake is high, not as much appears to be absorbed. This means in order to meet your needs, you should take a daily vitamin B12 supplement of 5-10 micrograms or a weekly vitamin B12 supplement of 2000 micrograms (4).

We store between 2 and 5 micrograms of vitamin B12 and only excrete a very small fraction of this each day. Nevertheless, over time, vitamin B12 deficiency can develop if stores are not replenished with vitamin B12 from the diet or from supplements. Although bacteria in the large intestine of humans do produce vitamin B12, this vitamin B12 does not appear to be absorbed (5) and is not adequate to prevent a vitamin B12 deficiency (6). Although some vegans may get vitamin B12 from inadequate hand washing, this is not a reliable vitamin B12 source.

Tempeh, miso, sea vegetables, and other plant foods are sometimes reported to contain vitamin B12. These products, however, are not reliable sources of the vitamin. The standard method for measuring vitamin B12 in foods measures both active and inactive forms of vitamin B12. The inactive form (also called analogues) actually interferes with normal vitamin B12 absorption and metabolism (7). When only active vitamin B12 is measured, plant foods including fermented soyfoods and sea vegetables do not contain significant amounts of active vitamin B12 (8).

Very small amounts of vitamin B12 have been found in plants grown in soil treated with manure (9). It is not clear whether this vitamin B12 is the active form or the inactive analogue. In any case, the amounts are so small that more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12 (9,10).

Nothing about not needing anything. Just how to get it. Just facts and sources. No propaganda.

No need to hit your head on a brick wall.

 

[Lexodus]

If the majority were vegetarians or carnivores, you would.

Yes, but they're not.

So you assign a 'point against' people just because they 'single themselves out from the majority'?

No. This whole semantics argument was because (EDIT YOU said that everybody who said that we were designed to eat meat as well as vegetables was playing the Appeal to Nature fallacy, and I was countering that argument.

But you're not countering that fallacy: you're not showing how to get an ought from an is, that because we're designed by biology to do something (which isn't true exactly--evolution doesn't 'design' a whole lot as much as throw random mutations of previous biological organisms at the wall called natural selection and sees what sticks) we're under a *moral* obligation to behave that way, or more accurately, that as long as we act in accordance with our biology we're acting morally.

Incorrect. I'm saying that, because we can, we should be able to. And, because Vegetarians have to go to extra measures to achieve the same effects as those of us who DON'T prevent ourselves from eating something means that we are following the 'path of less resistance' if you will; this has been accepted as the norm, and thus anyone who differs from the norm is, obviously, differing from the norm.

That's not relevant to what you said

Wait one fucking second... yes it is! I said that nobody runs around claiming to be a 'flesharian' or the like, which, if we follow the word-pattern

Your original post said your problem "is that they have a particular word for it" not that they have a different word pattern.

okay, that was retarded. Yes, I said that, and I reiterated it. The only mention of word-patterns is when I define what a hypothetical 'flesharian'
would be, so don't try and baffle the fuck out of me with your faulty reading skills.

I said that nobody runs around claiming to be a 'flesharian' or the like, which, if we follow the word-pattern used to describe those that only eat vegetables or those that only eat fruit, would mean that we don't eat any vegetables or fruit at all. This would ALSO be different to the norm (eating FRUIT AND VEGETABLES AND MEAT, to clarify and to prevent you from attempting to out-dumb my argument), and people would complain, as they wouldn't be getting the nutrients found in plants either. Sure, some people joke about being almost 100% carniverous, but nobody truly only eats meat. Even cannibals eat veggies and fruit sometimes

Just because it might be unhealthy to only eat meat and not veggies and fruits, that doesn't mean you can conclude without more evidence that the opposite--to only eat veggies and fruits and not meat--is also true.

But it has been proven.