Vegetarianism

[crepesack]

taking fish from the wild.
The fish in the wild were out there to reproduce and become more fish, by taking them are you not completely defeating the purpose? Fish are raised for food true. But by taking them inevitably you are changing their purpose to food. Don't call it vegetarianism at least you are a piscavore. And btw i think vegetarianism is stupid.

Vegetarianism unless it is for health or religious reasons is too me idiotic and very pompous. It tells me that you think you are better than everyone around you. Which is in itself flawed. Vegetarians without purpose think because we are human makes us inscrutable and makes us some how above logic. Wrong. We are to survive our development may be different but in the end our will are that of animals.

 

[LewsTherin]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

 

[Grassassassin]

I'm a meatatarian.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

You know that Maddox is satire, right? There's an order of magnitude between torturing billions of animals from birth and inadvertantly crushing a few thousand voles. (Lifetime of suffering, versus a lifetime of freedom with a near instant death.) Especially considering that we eat meat for pleasure, not necessity.

In my entire life living in the south around farms and such, I don't believe I've seen cows being cut open and skinned alive, or anything else that seems to live up to the connotation of the word "torture." The worst I've seen is the occasional cattle prod.

If I can save ten people, but one person's going to die anyway regardless of my actions, does that mean I should let eleven people die?

We're talking about animals, not people.

I don't think moral vegetarianism is indefensible.

Neither do I. I'd just like it if they acknowledged that animals do indeed die from the gathering of vegetables by commercial farms.

 

[Chartic]

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.[/quote]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

 

[Datalord]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

 

[MRMIdAS2k]

I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware fish were vegetables.

Sheep are raised for wool too, so they're fine too.
Chickens are raised for eggsm so thats also cool.
Cows are raised for Leather Jackets and Milk as well, so that's fine.

if anything, fish aren't raised to die, but thats the only think they're good for once caught.

At least my foods dead.

MIdAS

 

[Chartic]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

Frankly I find it strange that you are comparing plants to animals. If you are willing to say that then, if you're willing to eat meat why not become a cannibal?

I don't care if other people eat meat and won't try to change what you do, but in return don't try to do it to me.

Oh and Farming Plants produces a lot less waste than raising animals. I'm sure the people who have to live near pig farms would prefer living near a place that only farms vegetables.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

You know that Maddox is satire, right? There's an order of magnitude between torturing billions of animals from birth and inadvertantly crushing a few thousand voles. (Lifetime of suffering, versus a lifetime of freedom with a near instant death.) Especially considering that we eat meat for pleasure, not necessity.

1) In my entire life living in the south around farms and such, I don't believe I've seen cows being cut open and skinned alive, or anything else that seems to live up to the connotation of the word "torture." The worst I've seen is the occasional cattle prod.

If I can save ten people, but one person's going to die anyway regardless of my actions, does that mean I should let eleven people die?

2) We're talking about animals, not people.

I don't think moral vegetarianism is indefensible.

3) Neither do I. I'd just like it if they acknowledged that animals do indeed die from the gathering of vegetables by commercial farms.

1) Ever see a battery farm?
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/egg-battery.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_battery_-_caged_chicken
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series6/chicken_run_battery_hens_free_range.shtml
We're talking about real agribusiness farms, not your uncle's ranch.

2) Doesn't matter. If you argue that letting a relatively small number of field mice getting killed by grain combines is bad, then the way we treat chickens is much, much worse. I'm not saying that animals are people - I'm saying the order of magnitude and the way we treat the animals is an important distinction.

3) And I quote: "I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical." I disagree.

 

[yeah_so_no]

Personally, I find it easy to overlook the way the animals are treated because meat is delicious. Of course I completely respect you if you choose not to eat it. I mean no offense from this, but someone sent me this picture the other day and I thought it was funny.

Spoiler

That picture is AWESOME, and props to the person who put up the "Carnivore?" flier.

 

[Chartic]

I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware fish were vegetables.

Sheep are raised for wool too, so they're fine too.
Chickens are raised for eggsm so thats also cool.
Cows are raised for Leather Jackets and Milk as well, so that's fine.

if anything, fish aren't raised to die, but thats the only think they're good for once caught.

At least my foods dead.

MIdAS

I don't even know where to begin. I don't remember many sheep dying from being sheared, chickens dying from laying eggs, or cows dying from being milked. This is also a reason I don't wear leather.

My food is dead too. Just because they are plants doesn't mean they live forever when they are picked.

As I have said before, I eat fish because they are not raised to die.

I would probably not eat the above mentioned foods like milk and eggs if I knew that would not have a significant impact on my health and if I wanted to be an anal vegan.

 

[Chartic]

Personally, I find it easy to overlook the way the animals are treated because meat is delicious. Of course I completely respect you if you choose not to eat it. I mean no offense from this, but someone sent me this picture the other day and I thought it was funny.

Spoiler

That picture is AWESOME, and props to the person who put up the "Carnivore?" flier.

oh nice

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

That's actually a viable and somewhat sustainable option. Deer populations get too big - because their natural predators have become scarce - and if their numbers aren't controlled, they grow too large for their food supply and die out. Hunting's actually encouraged.

But it's not like you have to go out and shoot them if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you to hunt for meat. It's just, actually, not that bad a thing to do.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

1) Ever see a battery farm?
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/egg-battery.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_battery_-_caged_chicken
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series6/chicken_run_battery_hens_free_range.shtml
We're talking about real agribusiness farms, not your uncle's ranch.

2) Doesn't matter. If you argue that letting a relatively small number of field mice getting killed by grain combines is bad, then the way we treat chickens is much, much worse. I'm not saying that animals are people - I'm saying the order of magnitude and the way we treat the animals is an important distinction.

3) And I quote: "I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical." I disagree.

1) I'm loading up episodes of Kenshin at the moment (shocker, I know), so I'd rather not open up even more windows than I already have. I'm also aware that there are cases of animal cruelty in agriculture, but I can't help but feel that these cases don't compose the happenings of the vast majority of the industry. And none of my family have ranches. I'm talking about pretty decent cattle farms that make some pretty decent money. Hell, at the moment, I'm living next to one.

2) I'm arguing against the extreme moral vegetarian who believes that all animal lives are sacred and that we are evil for killing them, that all meat-eaters should be ashamed of themselves for being indirectly responsible for the deaths of animals when they are as well.

3) The hypocritical part comes in where they don't acknowledge the deaths of animals involved in producing the vegetables they eat. If they acknowledge that fact and adjust their arguments accordingly, I don't consider them hypocrites. From that point, I consider them different than myself, and not much more. I suppose the best way to describe it in my original post would be to say "extreme moral vegetarians" as opposed to "moral vegetarians." I tend to speak in extremes until someone feels like finding out the specifics of how I feel on the matters at hand.

 

[Chartic]

I will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die.

Have you ever thought of trying game [http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-game-meat.htm] meats [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(food)]?

I have no idea where I would buy something like that.

You get yourself one of

Spoiler: these

and go kill them yourself.

Why are you a jerk for no apparent reason?

That's actually a viable and somewhat sustainable option. Deer populations get too big - because their natural predators have become scarce - and if their numbers aren't controlled, they grow too large for their food supply and die out. Hunting's actually encouraged.

But it's not like you have to go out and shoot them if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you to hunt for meat. It's just, actually, not that bad a thing to do.

Sorry I misread this as Then go kill yourself , sorry for calling that one guy a jerk.

 

[Datalord]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

Frankly I find it strange that you are comparing plants to animals. If you are willing to say that then, if you're willing to eat meat why not become a cannibal?

I don't care if other people eat meat and won't try to change what you do, but in return don't try to do it to me.

Oh and Farming Plants produces a lot less waste than raising animals. I'm sure the people who have to live near pig farms would prefer living near a place that only farms vegetables.

If i tried to change your lifestyle, i would be as big of a hypocrite as PETA, did you read the first sentence? I just don't like preachy vegetarians acting like they are better than the unenlightening omnivores.

The difference between eating meat and being a cannibal is that being a cannibal is illegal in my community, but i like how you just assume that i am not a cannibal. You never know, i could be the guy that really does the stuff mentioned in dead baby jokes. And the other difference is that i have yet to meat a cow or pig that could theoretically have a job in society other that producing food or being in a performance.

And as someone who has lived ONLY in rural areas for the bast 10 years, i can truthfully say that living next to a pig farm is not that bad, and it is not any worse than living next to a corn farm or in Iowa (corn farm joke), and running a farm with both a large amount of livestock AND and large amount of land dedicated to crops actually has less waste than a farm dedicated to either meat or grain, because the parts of a plant that cannot be prepared and sold can be ground up and used as animal feed, and animal waste can be used as low grade fertilizer.

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

Vegetarianism is pointless.

We eat what we eat. One day we'll run out or run low or ruin the land and people will die. The population will adjust. Mother nature just handles shit like this and we have no choice in the matter beyond prolonging the inevitable.

Cold hard fact of life. Pass the bacon plz.

That being said, I don't hate vegetarians unless they're the preachy asshole kind.

 

[Chartic]

TO ALL THE VEGETARIANS,

if you are a vegetarian because of a health choice or personal preference, good for you,

if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to eat something that was raised to die, you are a hypocrite, because farmed plants are also raised to die,

if you try to get other people to convert to a vegetarian diet, the global population currently exceeds the food being produced, and in several decades famine will devastate the world, you think we should eliminate a source of food because it has a face? you make me want to go eat three animals for every one animal you didn't, except that would contribute to famine almost as badly

Frankly I find it strange that you are comparing plants to animals. If you are willing to say that then, if you're willing to eat meat why not become a cannibal?

I don't care if other people eat meat and won't try to change what you do, but in return don't try to do it to me.

Oh and Farming Plants produces a lot less waste than raising animals. I'm sure the people who have to live near pig farms would prefer living near a place that only farms vegetables.

If i tried to change your lifestyle, i would be as big of a hypocrite as PETA, did you read the first sentence? I just don't like preachy vegetarians acting like they are better than the unenlightening omnivores.

The difference between eating meat and being a cannibal is that being a cannibal is illegal in my community, but i like how you just assume that i am not a cannibal. You never know, i could be the guy that really does the stuff mentioned in dead baby jokes. And the other difference is that i have yet to meat a cow or pig that could theoretically have a job in society other that producing food or being in a performance.

And as someone who has lived ONLY in rural areas for the bast 10 years, i can truthfully say that living next to a pig farm is not that bad, and it is not any worse than living next to a corn farm or in Iowa (corn farm joke), and running a farm with both a large amount of livestock AND and large amount of land dedicated to crops actually has less waste than a farm dedicated to either meat or grain, because the parts of a plant that cannot be prepared and sold can be ground up and used as animal feed, and animal waste can be used as low grade fertilizer.

First of all, I wasn't being arrogant or trying to bring down people who eat meat, I just wanted advice from people so that I could remain healthy. And because of that I have been flamed by a bunch of people who hate Vegetarians because they know some that are arrogant.

I was joking about being a cannibal but please don't try to make a weak joke out of it. I was making of how awful your comparisons are.

And too your last argument, the most meat in the US is created on huge farms that just create that certain type of meat, like pig, chicken, or whatever. The most common thing that people complain about those, they often smell awful from all the animal waste that comes from there.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

1) Ever see a battery farm?
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/egg-battery.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_battery_-_caged_chicken
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/series6/chicken_run_battery_hens_free_range.shtml
We're talking about real agribusiness farms, not your uncle's ranch.

2) Doesn't matter. If you argue that letting a relatively small number of field mice getting killed by grain combines is bad, then the way we treat chickens is much, much worse. I'm not saying that animals are people - I'm saying the order of magnitude and the way we treat the animals is an important distinction.

3) And I quote: "I think that vegetarianism for the sake of health or just not liking the taste of meat is just fine, but moral vegetarianism is purely hypocritical." I disagree.

1) I'm loading up episodes of Kenshin at the moment (shocker, I know), so I'd rather not open up even more windows than I already have. I'm also aware that there are cases of animal cruelty in agriculture, but I can't help but feel that these cases don't compose the happenings of the vast majority of the industry. And none of my family have ranches. I'm talking about pretty decent cattle farms that make some pretty decent money. Hell, at the moment, I'm living next to one.

2) I'm arguing against the extreme moral vegetarian who believes that all animal lives are sacred and that we are evil for killing them, that all meat-eaters should be ashamed of themselves for being indirectly responsible for the deaths of animals when they are as well.

3) The hypocritical part comes in where they don't acknowledge the deaths of animals involved in producing the vegetables they eat. If they acknowledge that fact and adjust their arguments accordingly, I don't consider them hypocrites. From that point, I consider them different than myself, and not much more. I suppose the best way to describe it in my original post would be to say "extreme moral vegetarians" as opposed to "moral vegetarians." I tend to speak in extremes until someone feels like finding out the specifics of how I feel on the matters at hand.

1) Animal cruelty is standard practice in agriculture. If the animals are all freerange, you have yourself an exception to the rule. Factory farming is the standard because it's cheap.

2) It's not about animal death so much as it's about blatant, intentional animal cruelty.

3) I think it's more of a matter of you intentionally focusing on the small, select few failings of vegetarians instead of the actual issue presented. Even if the vegetarians who eat mass produced grain are wrong, that doesn't make factory farming right. You see what I'm saying? The hypocrisy, if any, is irrelevant to the argument.

I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not trying to convert you, I just don't like the arguments that the self-styled carnivores are making.

 

[Acaroid]

I have recently started practicing vegetarianism. I still eat fish but will not eat any other type of meat due to them being raised to die. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me or any warnings that my lifestyle of not eating much meat could have on me.

Well if your just a vegitarian, ou dont have anything to really worry about. Mind you i personally dont understand why you arnt a vegan, because milk cows are bread for death also. Also dairy is the most f'ed up thing to eat in the world... it is kinda sick and horrible, I say eat all the meat you want, it is dairy that is the real un-natural, gross thing you can possibly eat...

being a vegan would be harder as you dont have that large of source of b12 avalible, so you would need to supliment or eat fortafied foods (or eat seaweed). Vegetables use to have b12 but due to centuries of farming methods it no longer contains it.

being a vegan you also hav to have a bit knowledge of nutrition I would guess, it would take alot of reading and maybe you should invest in a nutritional almanac (mind you EVERYONE should do that anyway, vegi or not, most people have no idea about nutrition and should read up about the real facts.. not the stupid stuff they teach ins chools or put on TV, most of it is somewhat mis-informed)