Vegetarians

[santaandy]

Why don't vegeterrorists get upset when *animals* eat animals? If your precious animals can eat each other, so can I!

PS - Vegetarianism isn't as healthy as people claim it to be. Balance and quality are healthier than anything.

http://foodconsumer.org/7777/8888/N_utrition_35/090909562008_Vitamin_B12_may_prevent_brain_shrinkage.shtml

 

[Airhead]

I have the same attitude towards vegetarians as I have towards Christians.

"You and I have a different way of life but if we don't dwell upon this difference too much, we'll get along just fine."

If either tries to tell me that not doing as they do makes me Satan, then the relationship has rather poor prospects for the future.

Vegetarianism has some benefits, I admit. It really seems the animal farm industry is hurting the environment and of course eating too much meat is bad for your health. But that's the thing. It seems perfectly reasonable for me to limit the amount of animal products I eat, but I don't see why I am a sinful barbarian if I eat any at all.

It has been discussed before, but the "we can't slaughter the poor animals" argument seems very weak to me. Humans, like other animals have to kill other lifeforms to survive. I'm not the one who has come up with that. We don't kill (or have someone kill for us) - we die. If I could survive by watering myself and sticking my head out to sunshine it would be swell, but unfortunately I have to kill. Is it better to kill things that don't scream when they die? I dunno. Do plants lack a will to live? We can't say, but it's obvious they develop mechanisms that help them survive and in some cases - go figure - prevent them from being eaten.

Ending on a supermarket shelf cut up into pieces is not the ultimate meaning of existence of a cow, but neither is it the meaning of existence of a carrot.

 

[Akuushi]

Ah, I see, so vegetarians who are vegetarians for health reasons aren't real vegetarians by your viewpoint then? Interesting.

Edit: Oh, and I request a source supporting said statement above, considering this is the first instance I've heard of such a thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/hitler.html (biased towards vegetarianism, but still useful)
http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Neither-Vegetarian-Animal-Lover/dp/0962616966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226534584&sr=8-1 (Yes, there's even an entire book devoted to the subject)

As for the topic at hand, militant/pushy vegetarians are (imo) in the wrong, but there are a large amount of hypocritical meat eaters who will complain about "pushy" vegetarians one minute, and then joke about how they enjoy things like "I actually love vegetarians. Watching them get all foamy at the mouth while I eat a hamburger makes for good theater."


Lastly, as for "Similarly studies have shown that Males cannot safely sustain themselves on a diet of Soy protien because of the estrogen content. It can increase our risks of various cancers because our bodies are not meant to handle that much estrogen.":

http://www.soymilkquick.com/shouldmenworry.php
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA312211

I think a good quote here is "When you consider that millions of men in China, Japan and other Asian countries have had soy foods in their daily diets from earliest childhood, you can appreciate that the plant estrogens they contain have no discernible effect on male sexual development, and no feminizing effects at all. Given the huge populations of Asian countries there's no reason to think that soy affects male fertility, either."

Shockingly, there is not a high rate of cancer amongst the men in China, Japan and other Asian countries. Indeed, if you take sources like:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_bre_can_inc-health-breast-cancer-incidence

You can see that shockingly, the high-soy consuming countries have the lowest rate of breast cancer, despite that supposedly being associated with high soy consumption.

 

[Dr Pussymagnet]

Plus, they taste mighty fine cooked southern style. (Which is how it always is cooked here in Georgia)

Well , I live down in Texas and that's the reason I eat meat. Because it tastes so damn good. When you've got one of the best barbecue joints in the state near where you live with some of the best damn venison you'll ever have, you'll know why I'm not a vegetarian.

 

[Mr. Moose]

Plus, they taste mighty fine cooked southern style. (Which is how it always is cooked here in Georgia)

Well , I live down in Texas and that's the reason I eat meat. Because it tastes so damn good. When you've got one of the best barbecue joints in the state near where you live with some of the best damn venison you'll ever have, you'll know why I'm not a vegetarian.

Dude, I want to go to Texas so much.

I wanna try true Texan Barbeque.

 

[Shivari]

They have no point in life except to be SLAUGHTERED.

Sp if we don't matter either why aren't you killing yourself right now? I mean, if we have no point, why not just slaughter other humans for food as well! It will be such fun!

So if they don't have a "point" in life we might as well just raise them in shitty conditions and then off them huh? Yeah, sounds like a fantastic idea.

(Robot Dystopia for instance ;D)

I swear that once I'm done with my research paper due Friday I'll make a post in there.

And I can't resist this type of thing, I've lost a friend fighting about it recently. I'm still not going to stop, although I do hope everyone here just kinda gives up. Because I know it will get to the same thing it did last time...

"OMG there were 80 posts since the last time you logged on and you didn't respond to mine? How dare you?

Similarly studies have shown that Males cannot safely sustain themselves on a diet of Soy protien because of the estrogen content. It can increase our risks of various cancers because our bodies are not meant to handle that much estrogen.

Akuushi covered that a couple of posts above me, and all I'll say is that you're wrong and your "studies" are wrong. You'll be just fine with soy, but oh well, be stubborn.

 

[Mr. Moose]

They have no point in life except to be SLAUGHTERED.

Sp if we don't matter either why aren't you killing yourself right now? I mean, if we have no point, why not just slaughter other humans for food as well! It will be such fun!

When did I say humans have no point in life?

Why don't you read my post before you quote it and shove words into my mouth.

 

[klakkat]

This is probably been said somewhere, but the main reason meat-eaters don't like vegetarians is because some vegetarians are fairly militant about their ideas, and hostile towards meat-eaters. So, many meat-eaters get the idea that all vegetarians are like that.

I for one don't care at all what you do to your own body. Vegetarians only annoy me when they actively try to. Actually, one of my best friends is a Vegan, but he changed diet purely for health reasons, and so isn't preachy about it.

 

[Shivari]

They have no point in life except to be SLAUGHTERED.

Sp if we don't matter either why aren't you killing yourself right now? I mean, if we have no point, why not just slaughter other humans for food as well! It will be such fun!

When did I say humans have no point in life?

Why don't you read my post before you quote it and shove words into my mouth.

I'm sorry, when I read all of this:

I place cows, dogs, cats, pigs, etc, on the same level of importance as Humans.

That level being the level of little importance.

In the grand scheme of things, our existence on this little blue rock floating in space is pretty unimportant.

On my view of humans.

Homo Sapien is my least favorite of the Earths creatures, and I am of the mindset that the earth would be better if we dropped our population by a few billion.

I thought that was your position. Apparently I should have read "Everything I'm saying right now, read it as the complete opposite!

 

[Amnestic]

(Robot Dystopia for instance ;D)

I swear that once I'm done with my research paper due Friday I'll make a post in there.

And I can't resist this type of thing, I've lost a friend fighting about it recently. I'm still not going to stop, although I do hope everyone here just kinda gives up. Because I know it will get to the same thing it did last time...

"OMG there were 80 posts since the last time you logged on and you didn't respond to mine? How dare you?

That was mostly Eggo to be honest, but I see your point. Sucks about losing the friend though ;/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/hitler.html (biased towards vegetarianism, but still useful)
http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Neither-Vegetarian-Animal-Lover/dp/0962616966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226534584&sr=8-1 (Yes, there's even an entire book devoted to the subject)

Ta muchly.

They have no point in life except to be SLAUGHTERED.

Sp if we don't matter either why aren't you killing yourself right now? I mean, if we have no point, why not just slaughter other humans for food as well! It will be such fun!

When did I say humans have no point in life?

Why don't you read my post before you quote it and shove words into my mouth.

Probably around here:

I place cows, dogs, cats, pigs, etc, on the same level of importance as Humans.

That level being the level of little importance.

...

On my view of humans.

Homo Sapien is my least favorite of the Earths creatures, and I am of the mindset that the earth would be better if we dropped our population by a few billion.

To be fair to Shivari's point, you did say we should start slaughtering each other. You also stated you viewed humans on the same levels as pigs, cows and dogs implying that humans are fine to eat, as all three of those (not sure about cats) are consumed on a fairly regular basis.

Just sayin'.

Edit: Shivari ninja'd me ;(

 

[Shivari]

Sucks about losing the friend though ;/

I always like disagreeing with friends on something, as that way we can debate about it and I respect them more as a result. She was weak, and couldn't take that someone else wasn't a gun-loving conservative that loves meat.

And it's not like we went from being best friends to hating each other. She stopped sitting next to me in lunch, but is still friendly enough in Geometry, so it's alright.

 

[I'mANinja]

Vegetarian, old Native American word meaning "Bad Hunter"

 

[Doomar]

Vegetarianism is good for the enviroment... Actually, cutting down on meat in general is good for the enviroment... And for you health...

I'd like to see a source for the first claim.

I just woke up so I can't actually be bothered to get a link. However, it goes along the fact of if you believe in global warming being caused my humans (which I personally dont, but that's a different matter alltogether) The most harmful gas to the environment is methane, it is around 3x as potent as C02, the mass amount of animals that are here, not because of nature but because of breeding create a huge amount.

Then theres the fact of transportation, food production, fishing, preparing, whcih all adds to the C02 going into the environment, especially with things like trawler fishing etc.

And finally theres something I read along the lines of, a meat eater needs a whole field worth of food in a lifetime where as two vegetarians can use the same amount of space. meaning meat production cuts down on space and real nature.

For the record though none of that is some sort of STOP EATING MEAT!!! speech, I don't really care what other people do, but it's a good thing to know for arguments sake.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I counter all your arguments with canine teeth and underground coal fires.

I then knock out your economy issues with the fact that one third of all food bought is destroyed in the U.K. Meat has a far longer use by date than vegetables.

Also, the only reason that humanity can exist at it's current state is the mass production of vegetables/cereals; which was banned for meat. Once we lose fossil fuels, we will not be able to survive purely on vegetables/cereals.

 

[Amnestic]

I counter all your arguments with canine teeth and underground coal fires.

Interesting tangent: Couple of threads back there was a things that creep you out or things that you don't do or odd habits you had or something like that and a number of people expressed the fact that they refuse to eat vegetables and have done since a very young age (I believe on person quoted 3 or 4). I find it interesting how not one person in that thread pointed out to them that we have incisor teeth for a reason, that we are omnivores and we are currently at a stage in evolution where we best survive on a balanced diet.

Now whether or not they're healthy with their diet of meat only is not the issue I wished to pick up upon here. It's that nobody questioned them. To me, at least, people who eat only meat are far, far rarer than Vegans/vegetarians. Why is it then, that no one questioned their choices, and yet when vegetarianism comes up you got 32 pages of rehashed arguments yet again about our canine teeth.

I thought that was terribly strange, however I popped my head into the thread too late after they posted to give a decent reply, as I recall.

Then theres the fact of transportation, food production, fishing, preparing, whcih all adds to the C02 going into the environment, especially with things like trawler fishing etc.

In comparison to the transportation, food production, farm machine for sowing seeds, preparation, which all adds to the C02 going into the environment for vegetables.

Sorry, that point is as moot as could be.

 

[corporate_gamer]

I dont hate vegetarians, it's the one who start judging me for my meat eating or telling me how much the animals suffered. One time i was in a restuarant and i ordered rabbit medallions and my mates little brat of a sister got out a picture of her rabbit and started going on about how cruel it is to eat animals. If you think this isn't right don't do it, but don't preach to me or i will take the micheal, and this stands for anyone on any subject. Basically i just enjoy mock anyone with extremist view and a loud mouth.

 

[AuntyEthel]

I was a veggie all throughout high school, but I still got pissed off at other veggies who said that they were saving animals and the planet by not eating meat. I agrued that because they didn't buy the meat that was on the shelves, it was ultimately going to waste, meaning that the animal died for no reason. It did piss loads of people off, being a vegetarian and arguing against it, but I had fun.

In all seriousness, I think everyone should try being one for a year or so. It really gives a different perspective on good food. Even now I eat and love meat again, I still often take vegetarian options in restaurants if I can see its going to be good. Especially Indian food.

 

[Ronin_14-47]

Plants are living things, why aren't you concerned about them, hmmm? Is it because they have no "life" to them?

They have plenty of life; just no nervous system, flight response, consciousness or many of the other things members of the animal kindgom possess. Regardless, killing anything (including trees and plants) unnecessarily is immoral. It's unnecessary to kill animals when plants provide all the nutrition the human body needs.

Alright, so now you advocate that it's OK to kill SOMETIMES, like when it's necessary. If I'm not mistaken, the same argument is made for assasination. Again, you're missing my point. If you're going to kill for nurishment, don't discriminate or deprive yourself. Additionally, that's the thing about veggie lifestyle, is that it doesn't reaaly provide all the nutrition a body needs. I could live on a slice of bread and a cup of water a day, but that's not healthy at all.

 

[Ronin_14-47]

Vegetarianism is good for the enviroment... Actually, cutting down on meat in general is good for the enviroment... And for you health...

I'd like to see a source for the first claim.

I just woke up so I can't actually be bothered to get a link. However, it goes along the fact of if you believe in global warming being caused my humans (which I personally dont, but that's a different matter alltogether) The most harmful gas to the environment is methane, it is around 3x as potent as C02, the mass amount of animals that are here, not because of nature but because of breeding create a huge amount.

Then theres the fact of transportation, food production, fishing, preparing, whcih all adds to the C02 going into the environment, especially with things like trawler fishing etc.

And finally theres something I read along the lines of, a meat eater needs a whole field worth of food in a lifetime where as two vegetarians can use the same amount of space. meaning meat production cuts down on space and real nature.

For the record though none of that is some sort of STOP EATING MEAT!!! speech, I don't really care what other people do, but it's a good thing to know for arguments sake.

I'm sorry, so you're trying to tell me that NOT killing animals, which produce the methane that's the bane of all existence, and killing plants, which produce oxygen among other evironment friendly things, is HELPING the environment? Doesn't make much sense...

 

[Doomar]

I'm sorry, so you're trying to tell me that NOT killing animals, which produce the methane that's the bane of all existence, and killing plants, which produce oxygen among other evironment friendly things, is HELPING the environment? Doesn't make much sense...

It makes perfect sense when you consider that those animals are only here because they were bred in order to be eaten. If people didn't eat meat there would be no cows, no pigs etc. or atleast not anywhere near to the billions as there are today.

Then theres the fact of transportation, food production, fishing, preparing, whcih all adds to the C02 going into the environment, especially with things like trawler fishing etc.

In comparison to the transportation, food production, farm machine for sowing seeds, preparation, which all adds to the C02 going into the environment for vegetables.

Sorry, that point is as moot as could be.

But meat produce uses all those things aswell, the feed for chickens, pigs, it all has to come from somewhere. The production of a vegetarian diet it alot less harmful to the environment than a omnivore diet. A way to look at is, you feed a heard of cows enough food to sustain a bigger group of people, so really you are using up perfectly good food in order just to create more of a different kind, which coming from a purely environmental standpoint, makes no sense.