Villains who deserve empathy.

[Kaill]

How has no one mentioned Harvey Dent?
And yes i'm talking about The Dark Knight's Harvey Dent, not the comic book one, because they are hardly the same.

Batman: What happened to Rachel wasn't chance. We decided to act! We three!
Two-Face: Then why was it me who was the only one who lost everything?
Batman: It wasn't.
Two-Face: The Joker chose ME!
Batman: Because you were the best of us! He wanted to prove that even someone as good as you could fall.
Two-Face: [bitter] And he was right.

The Joker turned the best of Gotham City into one of its worst Villains.
I also think the Joker deserves Empathy as well, but. That's another story.

 

[Mr. Blik]

Ozymandius. Though I'm never sure if he really counts as a villain seeing as he does save Humanity from itself and brings about a new age of prosperity.

Oh boy...all I'm going to say is that Ozzy's status as a villain, let alone whether or not he's one who deserves sympathy, is a very controversial one among readers of Watchman. Those who align themselves with Rorschach's line of thought find Ozymandias' actions completely unforgivable, regardless of his reasons or the outcome.

I come down quite heavily on Ozymandias' side because Rorschach's fixed set of morals are slightly too hard-line and immutable for me. Though I can see where people who prefer Rorschach's methods are coming from.

oh jeez, yeah im gonna have to agree here. I spent a seriously long time trying to figure out who was in the right here. And in this instance, im going to have to side with Ozzy. But that doesn't mean he can sell out the morals and that doesn't make what he did OK. I think that what made it OK was the fact that Ozzy felt every death he had forced. It is hard to compromise, but in the end, hypocrisy, compromise, and contradiction is what makes up the human mind. Many people would claim this to be a bad thing, however, it is natural, so for it to be natural, means that it is permitted. Rorschach's no compromise system would never work, and ultimately lead to more destruction. I did tear up when he died though.

 

[TheTaco007]

Watchmen spoiler:

Spoiler

Ozymandias - Saved the whole damn world by being a villain

I think the whole point of Watchmen is that none of these characters are villains...or heroes. They're just people. People who hold power over other people (great or small) and feel entitled to use that power to 'protect people from themselves'. But who's watching THEM!? (dun dun DUN)

Well yeah, but up until the last few pages, he's portrayed as a villain.

 

[dancinginfernal]

As much of an asshole Loghain was in Dragon Age, I feel bad for him.

I mean, after witnessing the horrors the Orlesians did during the war and then being forced to ask for their help is understandably difficult. Not only that, but then the people begin to rebel against his rule. His own daughter objects to him and is locked up by his advisor without his consent, and you are running around killing the soldiers he hopes will save Ferelden. I mean, you could understand why he puts a bounty on you.

 

[AgentNein]

Watchmen spoiler:

Spoiler

Ozymandias - Saved the whole damn world by being a villain

I think the whole point of Watchmen is that none of these characters are villains...or heroes. They're just people. People who hold power over other people (great or small) and feel entitled to use that power to 'protect people from themselves'. But who's watching THEM!? (dun dun DUN)

Well yeah, but up until the last few pages, he's portrayed as a villain.

Fair point.

 

[Catchy Slogan]

Gil Alexander from Bioshock 2.

 

[RottingAwesome]

Ok, I know this is going to piss people off, but Kira from Death Note. He was the villan regardless of his position as protagonist. He did everything to rid the world of crinimals and make it a better place, what defeated him was his Ego. Like Rorshach( the running argument in this thread) he used extreme methods to make the world a better place, and thrilled in killing those he judged as criminals. It leads to the question "was he right?" the writer of the series was shocked with how many wanted the 'villan' to win in the end.

Perhaps the truly complex villans are those who have understandable motives (seriously, most villans are stupidly evil, and seem to want to take over the world just because they can, the truly great villans are the ones for which the 'villan' status doesn't really fit, rather than the ones that just reek of evil) (Bad villan=emperor Palpatine, good villan=Lelouch from Code Geass) Thats my opion anyway

Death Note spoilers:

Spoiler

I think the reason that fans wanted Kira to win (besides maybe wanting to drag out the series for a bit longer because of how good it was) was because of how unlikeable Near was (especially in comparison to L) so fans didn't want to see Near win. IMO the show started to go down hill after L died because how amazing of a character he was. During the final confrontation with the Japanese and American Task Force, when Light saw Near wearing an L mask his thoughts reflected how Near was forever inferior to L and I think a lot of fans could relate to these thoughts.

OT: I totally understand and agree with what you're saying. A good villain should stir up controversy within the reader/viewer/player. It adds a very thick layer of immersion and they may even learn something about themselves. It's certainly much more enjoyable and interesting than just black and white, evil and good (not to say that that can't be good either, just that it's usually more fun to have something more "non-linear" if you will)

 

[Pezzer]

Sauron, he was created evil.

 

[sailor_960]

I haven't played it yet, but it seems that every god aside from Zeus in God of War 3 is just there to protect Olympus. They are doing their duty and Kratos is killing them for no better reason then because they're there.

 

[WestMountain]

Sandman from Spiderman, don't really know if you can call him a villain because he just tried to get money for his daughters operation

Yes his daughter was sick, that totally justifies him trying to kill how many cops and civilians. Not to mention beating the shit out of spidey while venom held him down.

Finally someone who agrees with me

 

[Totenkopf]

Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII.
He has a really disturbed family issue.

 

[Lolth17]

Kinda feel bad for Claudia from Silent Hill 3. She just wanted to make the world a nice, fuzzy paradise by unleashing a hellish demon god. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Caligulove]

Magog from Kingdom Come.

YES! Iove you!

Along with that I would add Mr. Freeze, at least after they rewrote him for BatmanTAS (and made him awesome) and Cassidy from preacher since he was a complete asshole at times and did completely unforgivable things bu at least tried to atone at the end of his long and fucked up Irish vampire life. I was amazed how I switched from hating him to pitying him.

 

[kotorfan04]

I am going to go with Lavos from Chrono Trigger. Poor guy all he wanted to do was consume the planet. Also I am going with the Jewhunter from Inglorious Basterds. After all he pretty much ended WW2

 

[ReSpawn]

Ok, I know this is going to piss people off, but Kira from Death Note. He was the villan regardless of his position as protagonist. He did everything to rid the world of crinimals and make it a better place, what defeated him was his Ego. Like Rorshach( the running argument in this thread) he used extreme methods to make the world a better place, and thrilled in killing those he judged as criminals. It leads to the question "was he right?" the writer of the series was shocked with how many wanted the 'villan' to win in the end.

Perhaps the truly complex villans are those who have understandable motives (seriously, most villans are stupidly evil, and seem to want to take over the world just because they can, the truly great villans are the ones for which the 'villan' status doesn't really fit, rather than the ones that just reek of evil) (Bad villan=emperor Palpatine, good villan=Lelouch from Code Geass) Thats my opion anyway

I think this is a case of 'power corrupts'. Or rather, 'power makes you go bat-fuck insane'.

Although, and I've only seen the anime adaptation, you have to be surprised with the speed with which he opposes himself to L, and attempts to kill him.

In fact, now that I think about it. He's pretty messed up from the beginning. Obtaining the Death Note was just the last straw.

Spoiler

I guess I felt more pity than sympathy for him in the end, as he walks past himself as he was at the beginning of the series.

Maybe he's more of a commentary on how circumstance can change us, in unpredictable ways.

 

[Vromnir]

In Watchmen, I would say that Rorschach is the pinnicle. Never mind Ozy, I say that at the end, there's no doubt that he was the good guy all along. Rorschach is just plain evil, even if he is well intentioned deep, deep...deep down. But I always found that the point of the character was to show that even someone as crazy and evil as him could be seen in a cool, heroic light.

I think that all villains, no matter how evil or debased, are deserving of empathy, assuming that it is practical to do so without endangering others. They are always worth moral consideration, but no more moral consideration then an individual that they might potentially endanger.

Rorschach is in no way evil. Sure, he is very cruel, but not evil. He knows that the only way to fight with monsters is to become one, and therefore he is almost emotionless and will stop at nothing to punish those who do evil.

He isn't even seen in a heroic light at all. Everyone hates him, nobody supports him, everyone calls him a sociopath. Yet he is the only one who fully believes in justice. Hence "Never compromise, even in the face of armageddon"

To a good chunk of the world he isn't seen in a heroic light. But that's practically the number 1 hallmark of being a hero in fiction. Batman is certainly seen as a hero, but often times, the world sees him as an evil vigilante.

I always saw Rorschach as batman, except that he killed the villians. If batman had shot the joker in the face the first time he met him, a whole lot of death could've been prevented in Gothem.