Violence is completely uncensored in videogames... But love is??
- Thread starter PauL o_O
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Kids feel uncomfortable because they are brainwashed in feeling uncomfortable. It's not natural at all and exposing them to sexuality doesn't warp their development. Restricting their access to it and then exposing them naturally would. Adults are far more likely to get upset by sexuality than kids are, and kids will only get upset after they recognise adults getting upset.Generic Gamer said:
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THE CHILDREN! GOD, THE CHILDREN! THEY ARE SO FRAGILE AND IF THEY SEE A HALF-BOOB THEY WILL SURELY TURN TO SATANISM! IT'S ONLY LOGICAL! YOU NEED TO HAND ALL THE CHILDREN IN THE WORLD A BIBLE AND TELL THEM TO PRAISE JESUS!PauL o_O said:
Joking aside, you just can't figure out some people's logic, especially when it comes to censorship and "thinking of the children". Some parents and easily offended people just believe it is best to shield the children from corruption as long as they can. They feel that a child's innocence is something to be treasured and they do not want the media shoving violence and sex down their children's throats. I personally disagree with that sentiment, yet I am not a parent. I wouldn't think about it too much. Let them do what they want. You can get aggravated, but just try to remember why they do stuff like that.
That example made me laugh and think back to 'The Invention of Lying:'AngelOfBlueRoses said:
"The world is going to end unless we have sex right now!"
"Do we have time to get to a motel or do we need to do it right here?"
On a more serious note though, you're right and typically there will be love --> sex, particularly if the game is trying to actually pursue some type of story and not just throw it in for the sake of sex alone.
In some cases for games and young children that have not really been exposed to life lessons on health, sexuality, relationships, ect., I would wager that most games that have more sexual themes in them also have plenty of worse violence and other features that should be of primary concern. This same sentiment can be applied to other easily offended people:
"This game has sex in it, how horrible!" Or "What if this causes people to start *gulp* forming 'relationships?'"
Yet you can literally massacre the innocent citizens of an entire virtual city?
"Yeah, but they have nipples showing in a cutscene!!!" and "We can't have people trying to propagate humanity!!!"
Stupidity has no cure...
Only as long as the game has strict warnings. And not the 'this game may have some inappropriate material' warning. I mean the 'this game has full body alien nudity' warning (I REALLY want to see Tali naked for some reason).
It annoys the hell out of me. It's because despite all the 18/M rated games out there, some people still think that video games are something only children play. And violence in video games is a battle that was lost a few years ago, so now the focus is on the other 'corrupting' aspects of video games.
A prime example is when Dragon Age: Origins was released. A politician (his name escapes me) got a hold of the fact that there's a gay sex scene in the game (Interesting to note they only mentioned the male on male scene. I guess lesbians are fine) and managed to twist it to make it sound like it's the whole point of the game, conveniently ignoring that you have to actively pursue the gay relationship if you want to see it. There are probably about 10 points at which you can say "You're getting the wrong idea, we're just friends".
Tl;dr
The battle against violence in video games is lost, anti-video game people need something else to latch on to.
A prime example is when Dragon Age: Origins was released. A politician (his name escapes me) got a hold of the fact that there's a gay sex scene in the game (Interesting to note they only mentioned the male on male scene. I guess lesbians are fine) and managed to twist it to make it sound like it's the whole point of the game, conveniently ignoring that you have to actively pursue the gay relationship if you want to see it. There are probably about 10 points at which you can say "You're getting the wrong idea, we're just friends".
Tl;dr
The battle against violence in video games is lost, anti-video game people need something else to latch on to.
I actually don't want to see sex in games since developers like Bioware can't get their textures to interact correctly.
Actually it has been proven that a teenager (or anyone) who have watched porn do actually get false expectations and standards for sex. Although children shouldn't be playing M rated games to begin with.SnipErlite said:
"Think of the children!"
Here in America, sex is considered more of a private thing (well at least in theory). On the other hand violence isn't quite so taboo. Thus a little bit of violence and nobody gets that upset. Bare tits are flashed though and all of a suddenly the game is a "moral corrupter". America's culture has been heavily influenced by the Christian faith which is a little bit lighter on violence and rather strict about sex at all.
Plus its probably a bit weirder to see to digital entities having an intimate moment than it is to see them ripping each other apart.
Here in America, sex is considered more of a private thing (well at least in theory). On the other hand violence isn't quite so taboo. Thus a little bit of violence and nobody gets that upset. Bare tits are flashed though and all of a suddenly the game is a "moral corrupter". America's culture has been heavily influenced by the Christian faith which is a little bit lighter on violence and rather strict about sex at all.
Plus its probably a bit weirder to see to digital entities having an intimate moment than it is to see them ripping each other apart.
Because - you can't for the most part (and if you wanna include the few examples, you can also include sex games). And the demonstration of violence in video games is very much a simplification of what violence actually results in.PauL o_O said:
Look up some actual nastier murder/suicide/accident victims and you'll see that no matter how violent a game may seem to you, it's nowhere close to the word 'uncensored'.
GTA for example that's referred to as one of the most violent games, what does it actually have? You shoot a guy or run him over at 150 miles an hour, red paint shows, he flies like a dummy and... that's it - awesome, loads of violence there really.. almost comes close to paintball. Even games that simulate maimed victims, guts and stuff like that, it's nowhere near as graphically represented as it would be in real life (again probably a few exceptions, but those also get marked as needing to be censored, usually a lot more so than games with some sexual content). That's not a graphical limitation, it's just 'censoring' of sorts as no one's interested in that stuff.
As for why sex is censored, it's cause if it isn't, the game gets an 18+ (or 21 depending on state) mark and the game developers lose a good chunk of their audience - and it's mostly pointless, cause people (usually) don't play games for that, while they do play games for violence (cause it's just the basic drive in most video games and something people love to do in a consequence-free environment).
Because a lot of games are made in/distributed through American companies and Americans are pansies with this sort of stuff?
I don't really get it... our medium won't evolve past what is perceived as being adolescent until we fix this problem, though.
We can't have double-standards.
I don't really get it... our medium won't evolve past what is perceived as being adolescent until we fix this problem, though.
We can't have double-standards.
I was going to say pretty much the same thing. As much as I would like to kick the crap out of all these "protect the children" cockends, the fact of the matter is that it's more likely for someone to see a sex scene and at least have a go than it would be for someone to see grinding, squishy death and subsequently feed next door's cat into a wood-chipper.voorhees123 said:
That said, I feel that sex / nudity can have it's place in games and, if I am honest, I'd like to see more...because I am a man.
Singles and Singles 2 were "erotic" without being "explicit". Sure they featured full nudity and sex but when the sex was going on, it was going on under the sheets (which rotated through 90 degrees depending on wether it was the full monty or just hand-shandy) or under-water in the jacuzzi. It was basically what most people wanted "The Sims" to be.
Overtly sexual games, which are as tacky as they are laughable, aside, certain games could benefit from it more. Although I didn't reach that point in Mass Effect before I got bored, I'd heard the hype about the hideous, kid-mind-warping sexual content that would make the entire cast of Anal Rampage collectively vomit. Then I actually heard from someone who actually played the game and explained he'd the only place he'd seen anything less gratuitous was an Amish recruitment video. Plus Yahtzee said "you only get to see around a second of bare arse anyway". I could imagine BioWare getting rather cross about all the hype being about that and not the impressive graphics, mountains of dialogue and the rest that took a lot of hard work, late hours and countless gallons of Red Bull to create.
If you're going to introduce sex into a game properly then it has to be all or nothing and I think RPG's are the best place to start. I've already mentioned Mass Effect and I understand Alpha Protocol is also dabbling with diddling but, because I have played so few modern games, I must come back to Fallout 3.
Considering that there have been a lot of accusing fingers pointed at America and their "good old fashioned values", the irony of tentatively introducing a sexual element into a game set in a retro-futurist world full of 50's "Shangri La", Googie influence is not lost on me.
Most glaringly, there are prostitutes in the game and you can even call on the "services" of one in that she sleeps next to you in the bed you've rented. There are other hints here and there including the Raider "brothel" and allusions to strip-shows in the Evergreen Mills bazaar. Oh and there's the Sexy, Naughty and All-Nighter sleepwears.
Generally speaking, this is fine I suppose and I imagine the people who put this in to be giggling behind their backs like schoolgirls who've just heard a bigger boy say the world "Willy" but it also lends an immaturity to the game - not that it's the only thing that does, but it's there. I mean this is a post-nuclear hell-on-earth in which there are creatures that want to kill / eat / bite / poison you; Super Mutants want to dump you in FEV and mutate your sorry arse (assuming they don't get peckish on the way back to Vault 87); Raider gangs that want to rob you, hump you and kill you (in that order, if you're lucky) and everything else in between.
Now I am not saying that the option to bend Sarah Lyons over a fallen Nuka Cola machine should be an option (not that I'd mind doing that once or twice) but, while the tentative, nervous suggestions and allusions were there, the ultimate but jarring "line drawn here" also hinders as much as it helps. Fair enough it wasn't in Bethesda's remit to make the night with Nova a tad more worth your 120-caps but by limiting it so much it's been left to modders to fill the void and, while I have nude-body packs and the Animated Prostitution mod installed, the latter is too much a swing in the opposite direction. It's all the jaded, sex-starved player (That'd be me) has and that's pretty sad when I think about it.
Too much would detract from the core gameplay but putting so much effort in creating a blasted, scorched, radioative hellhole with no law, order or morality only to gloss over one of the negative results whilst allowing the rest does tend to bugger the illusion somewhat. At least give us a chance to build a relationship with someone...at least Mass Effect has that option!
Turning to the "Violence : Sex" censorship ratio, I found GTA4 to be especially guilty of this. OK so you can steal all manner of vehicles and inflict V8-propelled, bumper-induced death on all manner of squishy (and largely destestable!) members of the public, which you generally can't get away with in real life unless you're really desperate for a place to stay. However, the two strip clubs (one of which boasts "LIVE NUDE!" neon signs) feature girls who start in their underwear and/or tit-tape and actually strip off the square root of fuck all! If that happened in a real life strip-club, you'd ask for your money back! Well I would. Of course you don't HAVE to go into the strip club in GTA4 but when you do, it's for the same reason you'd go into one in real life - to have a girl strip naked in front of you and wriggle on your lap for a few minutes while you convince yourself that she really likes you.
Blimey this post is so long it's turning into an article (Hey Escapist, if you want me to redo this as an article, let's talk because I need the work!)!
I think what I am saying is that, in the right setting and the right context, sex in games can be just as necessary in films and it's all down to choice. If you want sex, sex and more sex, you buy a porn DVD or get Singles 2 (which isn't really that explicit to be honest). If you want a story but crave a little bit of sauce, you get nearly any Hollywood blockbuster on DVD or...get...erm...Alpha Protocol? Mass Effect?
In research for this post-cum-magnum-frigging-opus, I looked into the "Hot Coffee" mod and realised that, while Rockstar (might have) wanted to give players the choice for adult content (or not), they didn't do it very well. DLC's are now becoming more and more popular so why not offer any "adult" (be it more nudity/sex or more ways to extract an enemy's giblets and use them for cricket practice) content as a seperate add-on? That way you have the choice of wether or not you want it in the game. It's just a thought.
Oh and as for that "protecting the children" bullshit? I'm sorry but I couldn't give two shits about your children, OK? It says "Mature" / "18" on the box because it's NOT FOR CHILDREN. Don't buy it for them!!! Seriously I know parents who will happily buy a game with a bloody great BBFC "18" roundel on it for their ten-year old kid and then they have the gall to shout and scream about the fact it has disembowelment-related achievements! I put them in the same brackets as the berks who see yet another shooting and blame the gun company rather than the bellend who actually pulled the trigger. OK it can be argued that kids get a hold of the game through "other" methods but that's still not my problem. Or anyone else's.
It's often been said that "Sex Sells" and it's true. Good or bad, slapping a set of knockers on Page 3 did wonders for The Sun's circulation I'm guessing and Jordan didn't get her vast wealth from her witty dialogue (or her singing) did she? That said, it can also be a sign of desparation. A few years back a female friend was most annoyed when her monthly biking magazine suddenly shipped with a scantily-clad woman (as well as a motorbike) on the front cover. As much as I admire the female form, I agreed with her in that it was un-necessary and tacky tinsel with the shallow aim of pulling in a few more readers and this is the biggest pitfall that game producers have to avoid if they want to make that definitive breakthrough for sex in games.
Blending it subtly into the gamplay where appropriate would be tricky but the results could potentially be groundbreaking. Sticking with current form and largely just using it as garnish to keep the nerds happy neatly buggers the dignity (if any) the game may have had and just adds fuel to the fire that gaming as a whole needs to be damping down if it ever wants to be taken seriously.
Wardy
PS Yay for insomnia...
Well frankly I don't think America is ready for it, with those ass holes on Fox blowing up the Mass Effect scene for fucks sakes. Japan is so ahead of the curb.
Besides, with all the free porn out there on the internet, I really don't think a kid would get a game for the sex, I mean who pays 70$ for a porno?
Besides, with all the free porn out there on the internet, I really don't think a kid would get a game for the sex, I mean who pays 70$ for a porno?
Violence is just cooler than sex and you can appeal to a bigger audience. Besides sex is only fun when you are...well actually HAVING sex not watching your avatar on screen do it. Anyways, I wouldn't want to see sex in any of the games I play. If you want to see sex in games than I'm sure you can find plenty of erotic games.
Sex and erotism is simply hard to do in a computer game.
An ingame Kiss that doesn't look like crap is a hard task to do. Just recently watched the Starcraft 2 - Behind the scenes DVD where they mentioned:"It's hard to do a good kissing scene in real life, it's impossible to do it in CGI."
Edit:
In my opinion stuff like we see in Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins looks incredible awkward and isn't erotic in the slightest.
An ingame Kiss that doesn't look like crap is a hard task to do. Just recently watched the Starcraft 2 - Behind the scenes DVD where they mentioned:"It's hard to do a good kissing scene in real life, it's impossible to do it in CGI."
Edit:
In my opinion stuff like we see in Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins looks incredible awkward and isn't erotic in the slightest.