Wait, Why the Hell is That Considered "Legendary?"

[PurpleSky]

Starcraft 2 a million times over to me.But you already know that

 

[emeraldrafael]

This is something I've been pondering for a while now. Why are some things considered ground breaking when they really aren't all that great?

Now, I know that a lot of it has to do with whatever is popular at the time and you'll only see a certain demographic heavily praising something for being good, so don't count things that are just popular with teens like Twilight or Justin Bieber (no one worth their measure can ever call that shit legendary), but I'm talking about things where everyone seems to think it's the greatest thing ever.

For example; I personally didn't like the movie Avatar. Yet, while I didn't enjoy it as much as a lot of people, I can easily say that it indeed is a good movie considering the astounding use of 3D and the amazing special effects. Or someone may say that the Beatles aren't good in their opinion, but you can't for a second deny that they changed the music industry and heavily influenced practically everyone after them.

But then there are things that I just don't get.

Like the White Stripes for instance. I've seen so many critics and fans alike calling them "genre defining" or "legendary." But why though? They're a good band, yeah and I have some of their stuff, but "legendary?" No. Or even The Catcher in the Rye, which is considered to be the greatest piece of literature of the last 100 years, yet when I read it, I was annoyed, bored and just outright pissed off that it is held so highly amongst literate types. Can someone explain to me why these things are so heavily praised?

So my question, Escapist, is do you ever feel the same way about heavily praised movies, games, music or even books?

With respects to this, Catcher in the Rye is "legendary becuase at the time of its writing, it was culturally ground breaking and wnet against the norm of society. Nowadays, in our era of free expression and saying what we want, no one really sees it for what it is. Like Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. That was huge when it came out, but now, its just something you look at and say that couldnt happen.


As to the original question. Halo. I hate that people say it redefined shooting, or that its the greatest shooter out there. Its a shooter game, and generic at that, becuase Space Marines v. Aliens has been done. ALOT. I'm pretty sure thats the point of the Alien series. Its an oka game, but not the god of the industry people make it out to be.

 

[Ashhearth]

I wholeheartedly agree with Julian on this one but I think the reason people acclaim things as legendary is because they haven't seen/listened to the original stuff that actually was legendary. In the case of music, so few people actually listen to pop, hip-hop and newer rock but the older better music has just fallen by the wayside. I mean how many people do you know that consistently listen to Guns and Roses, Journey, Kansas etc, etc.

 

[instantbenz]

People are like drugged monkeys and are very easily entertained by random coloured lights.

Like ZOMG I totally LOL'D @ UR avatar!!11!!111oneeleven

... Okay, did I do that right?

My example of overhyped anything is Apple products ... inferior to PC plus those who like such products insist that you can do everything better on them. iSlaves sicken me.

 

[Julianking93]

Pro tip: the extent to which you enjoy something has no bearing whatsoever on how influential, boundary pushing, or innovative it was.

Things become "legendary" because they advance an art form, not because they are necessarily "good" form a pop-culure point of view.

ex: Ulysses is practically unreadable to the general population, but that doesn't mean it isn't an all-time great piece of literature.

-m

Yes, I understand that and I'm not forcing my opinion upon anyone. I know the difference between things that are "good" in my own personal opinion and things that truly change and are influential for their time.

Take what I said about Avatar before. I didn't like it but I can tell how truly groundbreaking it is due to its use of effects and 3D. It will influence many to do the same.

However, calling everything someone likes "legendary" or "ground breaking" just because a lot of people like it does not make it so.

This is why I use the White Stripes as my example. I know many people who like/love them. I myself love their music and am a big fan of Jack White but to say he's a "musical genius" or a "visionary for the musical world" is just out right ridiculous.

That stuff is popular. Not legendary. They never revolutionized anything, they never changed the face of music. That's people's personal opinion. It's no different than the obsession with Twilight right now. Do really think that will change anything? No. Will Justin Bieber change the face of music? Of course not! It's people's personal opinion in the heat of the moment getting in the way of true judgment.

 

[the Dept of Science]

The Detroit garage scene EXPLODED into popular culture because of Jack White. Without him you wouldn't have The Strokes, the Black Keys, The Hives, Franz Ferdinand, etc--the list goes on. Listen to the album Elephant from front to back and tell me it doesn't change your freaking life.

Maybe this is missing the point, but those other bands come from New York, Ohio, Sweden and Scotland respectively, nothing directly to do with Detroit. The Strokes were gaining interest at about the same time as the White Stripes. I always thought that the White Stripes were praised because they brought raw blues back (something unheard of since the 60s pretty much) and because they were the first to mix blues with punk.

I'm amazed there isn't a Kinks rip off band from the 90s.

Belle and Sebastian.
Although, Belle and Sebastian are awesome IMO. Possibly the best 60s styled pop act since the 60s. I'd even say their earlier albums are in the same league.

I've seen the Godfather twice and still don't really get it. It didn't really elicit any emotions in me or give me anything interesting to think about.
I was probably a bit old when I read the Catcher in the Rye. I can imagine a lot of people really empathising with Holden, but having left that sortof age, I just saw him as whiny and dull.

I think for most of these things, the legendaryness comes from being influential rather than really enjoyable. You could argue that being influential is far more of a challenge than being enjoyable, because I can name tonnes of things which I enjoy but would be reluctant to say were good.

 

[Aglynugga]

Will Justin Bieber change the face of music? Of course not! It's people's personal opinion in the heat of the moment getting in the way of true judgment.

Yeah...about that...Justin Bieber changed how people can become insanely and instantly popular to a degree where if someone doesn't grab that person right then and there, they risk losing millions of dollars to someone else.
We will see many more Justin biebers than we will see Jack Whites. Being influential doesn't see to have much to do with ability or skill or talent, it really seems to be a case of being in the right place at the right time.

 

[Matt_LRR]

Pro tip: the extent to which you enjoy something has no bearing whatsoever on how influential, boundary pushing, or innovative it was.

Things become "legendary" because they advance an art form, not because they are necessarily "good" form a pop-culure point of view.

ex: Ulysses is practically unreadable to the general population, but that doesn't mean it isn't an all-time great piece of literature.

-m

Yes, I understand that and I'm not forcing my opinion upon anyone. I know the difference between things that are "good" in my own personal opinion and things that truly change and are influential for their time.

Take what I said about Avatar before. I didn't like it but I can tell how truly groundbreaking it is due to its use of effects and 3D. It will influence many to do the same.

However, calling everything someone likes "legendary" or "ground breaking" just because a lot of people like it does not make it so.

This is why I use the White Stripes as my example. I know many people who like/love them. I myself love their music and am a big fan of Jack White but to say he's a "musical genius" or a "visionary for the musical world" is just out right ridiculous.

That stuff is popular. Not legendary. They never revolutionized anything, they never changed the face of music. That's people's personal opinion. It's no different than the obsession with Twilight right now. Do really think that will change anything? No. Will Justin Bieber change the face of music? Of course not! It's people's personal opinion in the heat of the moment getting in the way of true judgment.

Umm... previously in this very thread people have described how the white stripes are largely responsible for the explosion of an entire subgenre of music into the mainstream.

You're talking about aband that became big and high-profile because of it's contribution to the musical scene, its innovation, and it's role in the development of the face of modern music.

Avatar is almost certainly going to be hugely influential to the industry at large, and pushed the bleeding edge of filmmaking technology beyond what anyone has ever done before.

These are things that are popular, yes, but their popularity is not a case of people elevating them undeservedly.

basically, you chose really bad examples.

-m

 

[Macheteswordgun]

People are like drugged monkeys and are very easily entertained by random coloured lights.

*was playing with strobe light* huh?

 

[Julianking93]

Yeah...about that...Justin Bieber changed how people can become insanely and instantly popular to a degree where if someone doesn't grab that person right then and there, they risk losing millions of dollars to someone else.
We will see many more Justin biebers than we will see Jack Whites. Being influential doesn't see to have much to do with ability or skill or talent, it really seems to be a case of being in the right place at the right time.

That's not being influential, that's just how things work.

Of course we'll see more Justin Biebers, because that's all he is. Just a blank slate of a teen idol that can be copy/pasted every year that record execs know will make money and drive little teens crazy.

Bieber hasn't changed shit. It's always been like that.

 

[Kragg]

The Detroit garage scene EXPLODED into popular culture because of Jack White. Without him you wouldn't have The Strokes, the Black Keys, The Hives, Franz Ferdinand, etc--the list goes on.

....that's a good thing? I fucking hate those bands.

And I own their Elephant album. It's good, yes, but life altering? Really? I was more moved by the most recent An Cafe album.

you used the exact same argument in your opening post and now its not good enough?

 

[Julianking93]

Umm... previously in this very thread people have described how the white stripes are largely responsible for the explosion of an entire subgenre of music into the mainstream.

You're talking about aband that became big and high-profile because of it's contribution to the musical scene, its innovation, and it's role in the development of the face of modern music.

Avatar is almost certainly going to be hugely influential to the industry at large, and pushed the bleeding edge of filmmaking technology beyond what anyone has ever done before.

These are things that are popular, yes, but their popularity is not a case of people elevating them undeservedly.

basically, you chose really bad examples.

-m

What subgenre have they started? Did I miss out on some huge explosion of good music? If I did, where the hell is it?

And what innovation and change did they bring exactly? I'm asking this legitimately without any sarcasm if you couldn't tell because I really want to know.

And how is Avatar a bad example of something that will be truly influential?

 

[Matt_LRR]

Umm... previously in this very thread people have described how the white stripes are largely responsible for the explosion of an entire subgenre of music into the mainstream.

You're talking about aband that became big and high-profile because of it's contribution to the musical scene, its innovation, and it's role in the development of the face of modern music.

Avatar is almost certainly going to be hugely influential to the industry at large, and pushed the bleeding edge of filmmaking technology beyond what anyone has ever done before.

These are things that are popular, yes, but their popularity is not a case of people elevating them undeservedly.

basically, you chose really bad examples.

-m

What subgenre have they started? Did I miss out on some huge explosion of good music? If I did, where the hell is it?

And what innovation and change did they bring exactly? I'm asking this legitimately without any sarcasm if you couldn't tell because I really want to know.

And how is Avatar a bad example of something that will be truly influential?

If you don't recognize why the White Stripes are important to rock today then you aren't really paying attention to music. I mean, I'm sorry to be a dick about this, but that's pretty much what you're broadcasting.

The Detroit garage scene EXPLODED into popular culture because of Jack White. Without him you wouldn't have The Strokes, the Black Keys, The Hives, Franz Ferdinand, etc--the list goes on. Listen to the album Elephant from front to back and tell me it doesn't change your freaking life.

edit: There's a lot of anti-music snob sentiment in this thread. And sure, I understand--but you have to realize that these people live music. They read about it, talk about it, listen to new things all the time.

Consider the possibility that there are people who just plain know a whole lot about music and that might make them and their opinions difficult to approach.

And I said Avater was a bad example of something that is undeservedly called legendary, because it was revolutionary, and likely to be heavily influential.

edit: in retrospect, I misread what you were saying about avatar. You and I are on the same page there.


-m

 

[TylerC]

You say that the someone cannot deny that The Beatles are legendary because they changed music and heavily influenced many bands, and then you say The White Stripes aren't? The White Stripes haven't influenced music as a whole on the scale The Beatles did but I mean come on.

Jack White is one of the greatest guitarists of all time, and has a truly distinctive sound, but I guess that's all up for debate..

People say The Lord of The Flies is legendary, but I thought it was one of the worst books I've ever read. All in all, I guess something being "Legendary," is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Gindil]

Halo: Combat Evolved was a great game. I thought someone had made anoother Goldeneye. but then after halo 2, the serie's bright gold medallions crumbled into ash to me.

This, so much. If you weren't a gamer back when Halo came out you wouldn't understand. Even if you went back and played it now it seems generic. Its only generic because it defined every fps to come out after it. Things that are considered legendary have this affect, it literally redefines everything that comes after it in the genre.

If you hated video games, it would be meaningless to you even people who liked fps didn't like halo at the time. But you can't deny that its weapon system and gameplay have been copy pasta'd to death.

That's stretching it for Halo. Let's remember that it came out in a time when nothing seemed to stop the PS2 titan that was forming. Also, people were clamoring for a good game on a launch console. If history is anything, the launch is the most important time.

But for the love of mike, when you get to the Flood as your main enemy, that game wore off faster than a two-bit hooker on a high.

Right when I had to go through tw- FOUR levels of fighting with no break, I persevered but it wore on me.

Then came Halo 2... I beat the game in ONE day. Launch day, 8 hours. And left on the worst cliffhanger ever.

The thing with Halo, all of the elements were around in some form on PC. It just happened to hit the console market at all great time. I doubt it's truly legendary but it still remains a popular game.

 

[Julianking93]

And I said Avater was a bad example of something that is undeservedly called legendary, because it was revolutionary, and likely to be heavily influential.

edit: in retrospect, I misread what you were saying about avatar. You and I are on the same page there.


-m

Oh yeah, that quote. Yes yes, they may have inspired a few crappy bands to become famous but I'd think that's more of record companies looking for more bands in that area and that style rather than being truly influential to the masses.

And yes, I thought we were on the same page with Avatar. Just making sure.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

Anything written by Tolkien, being a huge fan of Fantasy fiction, I just can't get my head around why this man is considered a legend

 

[Matt_LRR]

Oh yeah, that quote. Yes yes, they may have inspired a few crappy bands to become famous but I'd think that's more of record companies looking for more bands in that area and that style rather than being truly influential to the masses.

Comments like that make this an impossible discussion to actually have. Hell, I don't like the white stripes, and I think Jack White is a tool, but I can see how their work has influenced the industry despite personal distate for them or for the genre.

Simply brushing that aside by saying "sure they may have influnenced people, but they influenced crappy people so I reject your claim" pakes this whole discussion pointless.

-m

 

[Julianking93]

Oh yeah, that quote. Yes yes, they may have inspired a few crappy bands to become famous but I'd think that's more of record companies looking for more bands in that area and that style rather than being truly influential to the masses.

Comments like that make this an impossible discussion to actually have. Hell, I don't like the white stripes, and I think Jack White is a tool, but I can see how their work has influenced the industry despite personal distate for them or for the genre.

Simply brushing that aside by saying "sure they may have influnenced people, but they influenced crappy people so I reject your claim" pakes this whole discussion pointless.

-m

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying those bands suck, therefore you're wrong, (I just kinda threw in my own personal opinion on those bands for...well whatever reason) I'm saying that the White Stripes were popular at the time which lead to record companies going out and finding bands that sounded similar because that's what people wanted to listen to.

It's the same when you get any popular band. Look how many boy bands popped up in the 90s due to the success of one. Does that make them influential? Maybe. Does that make them legendary? Hell no. Just because they're popular in one place at one time doesn't make them a legend.

Think of how many bands in the similar style of the Rolling Stones came out at the time of their success yet went nowhere. The same can be applied to any successful band.