War crimes: A quick hypothetical

[Froggy Slayer]

the whole thing is a moot point- either they have nukes like us, in which case they can drop them from orbit at their leisure, or they don't, in which case we can use ours in a show of force to convince them to leave/surrender.

They don't want to use nukes; they want to replace us as the main civilised species on Earth and would prefer a world that isn't radioactive. They also have good point defence systems on their ships.

So what? do they have radio? Communication? An alphabet? I consider these factors to be far more important than their point defense network, which could probably fail anyway if every nuke in the US was launched up at them at the same time, only needing a single hit in all likeliness.

Oh yeah, they have communications and an alphabet and radio and shit, some communications more advanced than ours. The transport ships are staying quite far away from Earth and quite spread out, though, so I doubt that the nukes could reach them reliably.

 

[Squilookle]

OK, that's something, I suppose. Did they bring their whole population Independence Day style, or just the overflow?

 

[Froggy Slayer]

Some more info. Mating is a much less personal affair for them; they simply wish to have as much 'new meat' for the war machine as possible. The species breeds fast. Around 20 eggs in each clutch, with a gestation period of 2 months. The hatchling grows to adulthood in about 3 years. Average lifespan is around 50 years until expiration by old age. Their society is racist to other species; they see the Earth and other planets that are similar to their homeworld as their birthright, and see any civilised species that lives on these planets, such as us, to be an inconvenience.

 

[6urk17s]

Wouldn't the moon nazis take care of that for us?

OT: What ship types are in their invasion fleet then? By what means did they arrive(FTL, sleeper ships, stargate, e.t.c.) here and are they human like or monsterish?

 

[Agow95]

if a superior species travelled for about a hundred years at the speed of light to reach our planet for some inane reason that meant they couldn't just go to one without nuclear weapons then I imagine it wouldn't matter what we did these bastards are determined to profit and we will die.

 

[Squilookle]

What's the biggest problem that forced them to move- lack of space, food, a spreading disease, or is their homeworld doing reasonably fine, and they're purely expanding for the hell of it?

 

[Jegsimmons]

If an alien species that was at a similar technological level to us invaded, except this species has no concept of morality, and therefore believes that ANYTHING is permitted in a war, should we still hold to the Geneva convention and avoid enacting war crimes upon them?

Nope.

mostly because the geneva 'rules' them selves are filled with holes.

but if aliens came here to start shit. fuck em.


"EAT ANTHRAX *****!!!"
*smashes bottle of toxic anthrax over an alien*

 

[emeraldrafael]

Ive always been under the impression there's no point in controlling what happens in war and the geneva convention itself and what was passed from it is pointless since in most cases, the people who commit the acts specifically labelled as "DO NOT DO" are the ones who are doing it and just dont want retaliation from a more powerful enemy in the form they've been initiating.

... So no, it shouldnt be upheld. And i dont think world leaders will look at it the same way when the species as a whole are being threatened with extinction. Not that the lesson would stick if/when we survive and go into our next war of course over something trivial.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

Wouldn't the moon nazis take care of that for us?

OT: What ship types are in their invasion fleet then? By what means did they arrive(FTL, sleeper ships, stargate, e.t.c.) here and are they human like or monsterish?

Only MASSIVE transports with point defence, but they have some large in-atmosphere craft that utilise anti-gravity tech to make them floating fortresses. They have limited FTL; they can't fire FTL projectiles or anything like that, and it still took them quite some time to get here. In appearance, imagine a humanoid tardigrade.

What's the biggest problem that forced them to move- lack of space, food, a spreading disease, or is their homeworld doing reasonably fine, and they're purely expanding for the hell of it?

Lack of space on their homeworld plus a huge breeding rate. They don't have much in the way of terraforming, either, which is why they need a world similar to a more pristine version of their homeworld. Ours will suffice.

 

[Manji187]

First off, how the hell did they get here if they are at our level?

As for rights, since they aren't recognizing civilians I say fuck em. Capet bomb their asses with napalm and chemical weapons.

Similar technological level. They have FTL transport craft and some fancy stuff, but nothing that they can use to just steamroller Earth.

Wat? Faster than light travel is definitely not "similar" to what we (human beings) currently have. If they (aliens) have FTL travel they are way more advanced and are bound to have other WAAAAAAAAY fancier stuff.

Or do you mean to say that while they have FTL drives, they sport Kevlar body armor and fire bullets? That's just ridiculous.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

If it means the difference between death or survival, then fuck the rules. I don't give a fuck what some treaty that some politician signed, there is no such thing as a clean fight when it comes to survival situations.

 

[II Scarecrow II]

Ok, I shit you not, I had about two pages worth of philosophical bullshit about war, war crimes and colonisation. Reading over it, I realised I was talking crap. An alien race advanced enough to travel to earth to colonise it will use everything in their power to wipe out the indigenous life if it is required and humanity would be fighting for its very survival. Despite what most sci-fi movies, tv series and books like to portray, it would most likely be a horribly one sided battle, and if Day Z has taught me anything, when it comes to surviving, you will do ANYTHING in your power to survive another day. If that requires us to utilise chemical and nuclear weapons and target their civilian population, I am sure as hell the powers that be will do it and I very much doubt that ANYONE will complain about war crimes until well after the fact.


And I can also assure you that if they wanted Earth and humanity was going to lose, the survivng government and armed forces would not hesitate to implement a Scorched Earth-style strategy as a final fuck you to the invaders. Humans as a race are a highly xenophobic species, which has seen us come into conflict with several relatively advanced races and still abounds as racism today. Somehow I think that if we can't get over skin colour differences of people from the same planet, how do you think we will react to something from an entirely different solar system?

It's different, kill it with fire.

 

[Ledan]

Since they are attacking our homeworld I think we can use whatever means to push them back. If we ever get to their homeworld, we should think about how far we will go.

 

[Squilookle]

OK, now all that's out of the way, here's the million dollar question- If we revealed that our astronomy research has identified several planets out there that could harbour life similar to ours, and offer to provide such information, along with food and supplies for their journey, in exchange for them showing us how to develop FTL technology, what would their response be?

 

[Froggy Slayer]

OK, now all that's out of the way, here's the million dollar question- If we revealed that our astronomy research has identified several planets out there that could harbour life similar to ours, and offer to provide such information, along with food and supplies for their journey, in exchange for them showing us how to develop FTL technology, what would their response be?

Ooh, this is a tough one, actually. I've already said that they're an incredibly racist species, even more so than the humans, but they're also desperate. I'd say that they might want to take us up on the offer, but I think that they'd be leery. And they'd probably be keep a close eye on us. Anyway, if they give us FTL tech, how do they know that we won't go for the same planets as we informed them about? Anyway, at the rate that they breed, they'd probably be back after about 100 years. But it is a good way to keep them away for the time being.

Wat? Faster than light travel is definitely not "similar" to what we (human beings) currently have. If they (aliens) have FTL travel they are way more advanced and are bound to have other WAAAAAAAAY fancier stuff.

Or do you mean to say that while they have FTL drives, they sport Kevlar body armor and fire bullets? That's just ridiculous.

No, you misunderstand. Technology isn't a linear scale. Anyway, they are slightly ahead of us, maybe by about 100 years. Nothing that'll let them instantly take over, but a bit of an advantage on the tech front.

 

[II Scarecrow II]

Wouldn't the moon nazis take care of that for us?

OT: What ship types are in their invasion fleet then? By what means did they arrive(FTL, sleeper ships, stargate, e.t.c.) here and are they human like or monsterish?

Only MASSIVE transports with point defence, but they have some large in-atmosphere craft that utilise anti-gravity tech to make them floating fortresses. They have limited FTL; they can't fire FTL projectiles or anything like that, and it still took them quite some time to get here. In appearance, imagine a humanoid tardigrade.

What's the biggest problem that forced them to move- lack of space, food, a spreading disease, or is their homeworld doing reasonably fine, and they're purely expanding for the hell of it?

Lack of space on their homeworld plus a huge breeding rate. They don't have much in the way of terraforming, either, which is why they need a world similar to a more pristine version of their homeworld. Ours will suffice.

I'd imagine you are doing this as research for a piece of sci-fi writing, and I agree with what other people have said. An alien society capable of not only understanding, but controlling relativistic space travel would likely have a vast grasp of physics and quantum physics that can be utilised offensively and we can't even comprehend let alone defend against it.

Perhaps a more suited method of transportation, if you would like them on a "relatively equal" field in terms of technology, would be generation ships or cryogenic transport. It is a method of transport that humanity itself is close to and possibly already developing, so it reduces the potential intelligence of the aliens down to a more equal field that allows you to utilise more conventional warfare and give the humans (presumably the protagonists) a fighting chance.

That said, the best you could get out of a plot like that is something akin to Halo or Starship Troopers, with a bit of colonisation and xenophobic sub text, and human patriotism. But since I don't wish to tell you how to write a story, the answer to your question is that humanity would do anything and everything in its power to survive, including commiting war crimes and using chemical and biological weapons.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

Wouldn't the moon nazis take care of that for us?

OT: What ship types are in their invasion fleet then? By what means did they arrive(FTL, sleeper ships, stargate, e.t.c.) here and are they human like or monsterish?

Only MASSIVE transports with point defence, but they have some large in-atmosphere craft that utilise anti-gravity tech to make them floating fortresses. They have limited FTL; they can't fire FTL projectiles or anything like that, and it still took them quite some time to get here. In appearance, imagine a humanoid tardigrade.

What's the biggest problem that forced them to move- lack of space, food, a spreading disease, or is their homeworld doing reasonably fine, and they're purely expanding for the hell of it?

Lack of space on their homeworld plus a huge breeding rate. They don't have much in the way of terraforming, either, which is why they need a world similar to a more pristine version of their homeworld. Ours will suffice.

I'd imagine you are doing this as research for a piece of sci-fi writing, and I agree with what other people have said. An alien society capable of not only understanding, but controlling relativistic space travel would likely have a vast grasp of physics and quantum physics that can be utilised offensively and we can't even comprehend let alone defend against it.

Perhaps a more suited method of transportation, if you would like them on a "relatively equal" field in terms of technology, would be generation ships or cryogenic transport. It is a method of transport that humanity itself is close to and possibly already developing, so it reduces the potential intelligence of the aliens down to a more equal field that allows you to utilise more conventional warfare and give the humans (presumably the protagonists) a fighting chance.

That said, the best you could get out of a plot like that is something akin to Halo or Starship Troopers, with a bit of colonisation and xenophobic sub text, and human patriotism. But since I don't wish to tell you how to write a story, the answer to your question is that humanity would do anything and everything in its power to survive, including commiting war crimes and using chemical and biological weapons.

Well, if not FTL, I am doing these as essentially human sized intelligent tardigrades. I'm pretty sure that tardigrades can essentially put themselves in stasis for extended periods of time. And before you say that they can live in more extreme environments than us, they can survive, but not thrive. Seeing as they're essentially dead when they're doing the 'surviving' thing.

And no, I'm not doing this for a sci-fi writing thing, I'm just interested.

 

[Squilookle]

They probably wouldn't worry about us going for the same planet, as they have ships up and running whereas we first have to understand FTL and we don't even have any ships built yet. Nevertheless, if necessary, we'll add the sweetener of revealing how we were able to see so far into space in the first place, so they can find their own future spots.

We will also need to warn them of our Scorched Earth policy. Make it understood that it may be possible to trade with us in the future, but any further attack on Earth that looks to be successful will be met with a worldwide Nuclear Fallout, rendering the planet useless to anyone.

In the meantime, invite any ambassadors or reserachers they may have -there's bound to be a few no matter how racist they are- down to Earth to understand us better. In particular, teach them about how we use contraception and recycling, renewable energy, terraforming theory, etc. Have this information all part-in-parcel of the whole 'what humans are like' package, so it doesn't seen forced or suggestive.

At the conclusion of negotiations, all alien prisoners are to be returned, in good health, no matter what happened to human captives/casualties.

And that, I think, is how I'd handle it.

 

[Manji187]

Wat? Faster than light travel is definitely not "similar" to what we (human beings) currently have. If they (aliens) have FTL travel they are way more advanced and are bound to have other WAAAAAAAAY fancier stuff.

Or do you mean to say that while they have FTL drives, they sport Kevlar body armor and fire bullets? That's just ridiculous.

No, you misunderstand. Technology isn't a linear scale. Anyway, they are slightly ahead of us, maybe by about 100 years. Nothing that'll let them instantly take over, but a bit of an advantage on the tech front.

That's right, technology tends to go exponential. Which means that if they have 100 human years on us (and are from 2112, one could say), who knows what they are capable of. In 1912 there was no civil aviation, no computers, no atom bomb, no Large Hadron Colliders.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indestinguishable from magic (Arthur C. Clarke). To the 1912 man, our planes (from 2012) are magic, our computers are magic, our weapons are magic. What I am getting at is this: even with a hundred year gap, humanity will fall to the aliens like the New World fell to the conquistadors. While not being "steamrolled", the reality won't be far from it.

If they had a 20-30 year advantage I might buy the "similar" part.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

They probably wouldn't worry about us going for the same planet, as they have ships up and running whereas we first have to understand FTL and we don't even have any ships built yet. Nevertheless, if necessary, we'll add the sweetener of revealing how we were able to see so far into space in the first place, so they can find their own future spots.

We will also need to warn them of our Scorched Earth policy. Make it understood that it may be possible to trade with us in the future, but any further attack on Earth that looks to be successful will be met with a worldwide Nuclear Fallout, rendering the planet useless to anyone.

In the meantime, invite any ambassadors or reserachers they may have -there's bound to be a few no matter how racist they are- down to Earth to understand us better. In particular, teach them about how we use contraception and recycling, renewable energy, terraforming theory, etc. Have this information all part-in-parcel of the whole 'what humans are like' package, so it doesn't seen forced or suggestive.

At the conclusion of negotiations, all alien prisoners are to be returned, in good health, no matter what happened to human captives/casualties.

And that, I think, is how I'd handle it.

Seems pretty good. You might want to be careful though, concepts like contraception might induce culture shock in a species like this.