War in Iraq the Game - will it be made?

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MagnumJoe

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Darkside360 said:
Um where have you been? Our job is done. We already handed most of the fighting over to the new Iraqi army.

The mission was to go into Iraq, free the people, topple Saddam's regime, and find any WMD's they have.

WMD's were not found due to poor intelligence BUT we still freed the people, removed Saddam, flushed terrorist cells like Al Qaeda out, and helped them establish a working government with free elections.

I call that a victory. The Iraq war was inevitable, Saddam was bound to be overthrown but it was better to have been us than some crazy mob that would just replace Saddam with another just like him.
Dude, you are brainwashed.

I advice you to get out of USA and come to any middle eastern country, and you will know that none of this is true. We all know here it's still a swamp in Iraq. Your news, is different than ours.

You are a victim of CNN, FOX, CBS, and NBC. Watch something else.
 

thiosk

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I anticipate a thrilling metagame where players compete to see who can build the biggest naked prisoner pyramid
 

MagnumJoe

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Bretty said:
The Strategic Aims were to construct a military pressence in Iraq to be able to bolster support for both the Arabian and Kuwaiti oil supplies --- I think they did this?
Oh my God no these weren't the strategic aims! These are the aims which came up later to fake a strategic victory!

The main aim of the war on Iraq, were 3:

1- Overthrow Saddam
2- End Al-Qaeda
3- WMD

3 didn't exist, 2 didn't end, and 1 is just a facade, as there are many worse dictators around the world.

And not only that, a new problem arose after the invasion: civil war! And mark my words: you will see what happens when the US army goes out of Iraq.

Do you think the Iraqi army has loyalty towards a president who spent all his life in the USA then brought down with a parachute to rule Iraq? Do you think they will forget about race and sects? You are so wrong! Iraq needs someone like Saddam, and by the way, Saddam, was no outcast. Saddam is as brutal as the rest of Iraqis. You people don't know the history of the land, nor the area!

It's simple to say, that we, people who live in the middle east, think like me! Because we know better than you the people and the history! This is an American frail dream! Even if it was for noble intentions, it will NEVER be realized.

All you know is some figures and numbers and calculations. But we know the people! The variable you are ignoring. We know the core that will never change.
 

MagnumJoe

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Darkside360 said:
MagnumJoe said:
Darkside360 said:
Um where have you been? Our job is done. We already handed most of the fighting over to the new Iraqi army.

The mission was to go into Iraq, free the people, topple Saddam's regime, and find any WMD's they have.

WMD's were not found due to poor intelligence BUT we still freed the people, removed Saddam, flushed terrorist cells like Al Qaeda out, and helped them establish a working government with free elections.

I call that a victory. The Iraq war was inevitable, Saddam was bound to be overthrown but it was better to have been us than some crazy mob that would just replace Saddam with another just like him.
Dude, you are brainwashed.

I advice you to get out of USA and come to any middle eastern country, and you will know that none of this is true. We all know here it's still a swamp in Iraq. Your news, is different than ours.

You are a victim of CNN, FOX, CBS, and NBC. Watch something else.
Yeah I'll watch Arab news networks and listen to them constantly bash the USA and say how evil we are.

Seriously you just discredited your arguments by calling me brainwashed. The only brainwashing I see is you thinking the US is evil and out for oil. You are the one who needs to open their eyes.
By the way, about oil, i got this info from americans, not from arabic news agencies.

And i think USA is evil, not because news. No, but because of the direct political and economical impact they have on us, making us in the ditch! Something you will never hear about! Nor see in the news! Rarely you might read it in a book! But The USA's agenda is working as magic here, controlling all aspects of life. You just don't know the darkness we are living in because of USA!

I am calling you brainwashed, because you say exactly the things Bush said. This is enough for me.
 

MagnumJoe

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Darkside360 said:
MagnumJoe said:
Darkside360 said:
MagnumJoe said:
Darkside360 said:
Um where have you been? Our job is done. We already handed most of the fighting over to the new Iraqi army.

The mission was to go into Iraq, free the people, topple Saddam's regime, and find any WMD's they have.

WMD's were not found due to poor intelligence BUT we still freed the people, removed Saddam, flushed terrorist cells like Al Qaeda out, and helped them establish a working government with free elections.

I call that a victory. The Iraq war was inevitable, Saddam was bound to be overthrown but it was better to have been us than some crazy mob that would just replace Saddam with another just like him.
Dude, you are brainwashed.

I advice you to get out of USA and come to any middle eastern country, and you will know that none of this is true. We all know here it's still a swamp in Iraq. Your news, is different than ours.

You are a victim of CNN, FOX, CBS, and NBC. Watch something else.
Yeah I'll watch Arab news networks and listen to them constantly bash the USA and say how evil we are.

Seriously you just discredited your arguments by calling me brainwashed. The only brainwashing I see is you thinking the US is evil and out for oil. You are the one who needs to open their eyes.
By the way, about oil, i got this info from americans, not from arabic news agencies.

I am calling you brainwashed, because you say exactly the things Bush said. This is enough for me.
I'm sorry were you listening to the FAR left who thinks it was for oil? I can tell you gas is still on the rise. Energy costs are still up.
I don't listen to anyone except Iraqi people. Because i got contacts there.

Don't ever listen to politicians.
 

KaZZaP

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Wait wasn't COD4 about the war in Iraq? Sure there was some Russians thrown in the works but still.
 

MagnumJoe

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Darkside360 said:
Does that person speak for the whole country? I think not.
No but things are so obvious that you don't need to speak to the whole country. Like oil pipe lines. This is no secret.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well to be honest with you, it's not a "War" it's a police action. In War you go in to kill people and break things. In general we do not do that in Iraq, we have our troops mostly riding around in hummers trying to maintain the peace while getting ambushed and killed. We do indeed retaliate with devestating effect in such situations, but even when we do, it results in the "enemy" whining to the media and doing more damage than they could have with weapons.

In general we simply don't fight wars like World War II anymore, we've simply lost the American spirit.

Think of it this way, when I talk about going down there and basically wiping the place out, people start screaming about the poor civilians and how even the insurgents have families and such. The anti-war crowd also has free access to say pretty much whatever they want, while the pro-war crowd (and military) is carefully kept quiet for a number of reasons.

In World War II we were smart enough NOT to embed reporters in our military units (a bid deal was made about this during this war), and we pretty much put a gag on anti-war media. There WAS a lot of anti-war sentiment, even while going on a LOT of people believed in isolationism even after Pearl Harbour. Those people simply had the rug pulled ou from under them and were not given a platform.

In addition we proceeded to demonize the Nazis in every way imaginable. That way our boys hated the enemy so much they were beyond caring if they have wives, or family, or whatever else. There is a whole section dedicated to World War II propaganda in the Smithsonian.

Trust me, things like the "human flesh lampshades" got going for a reason. Both before and afterwards (to justify our actions).

During World War II our troops lined up women, children, and the elderly and gunned them down ruthlessly. Why? Because of something called the "Vulkssturm" which pretty much demonstrated why in a REAL war there are no civilians. We also bombed their factories (full of civilians) out of existance to cripple ther infrastructure. We targeted things like food, water, and medical supplies to deprive the enemy of these things. Pressure on the civilians? Well if enough die or suffer the idea is that they will start to pressure their leadership (if all goes well) to do whatever the enemy wants so they can go back to living fairly normally. Especially if while your targeting them you bombard them with messages about how you just want their society to change, and will leave them alone if they do what you want.

That said, even today the Nazis are seen as being evil enough where in a FPS you can kick open the door of a church where a bunch of Nazis are hiding out, and kill everyone, and there is no real question about this. Do the same thing to a bunch of Iraqis in a Mosque and there are questions because really we haven't produced any pro-war propaganda.

Games like "Army Of Two" have gone here and have gotten criticism because we haven't been smart enough to really use emergency powers.

See if Bush had half a brain he would have basically declared martial law so he could use emergency powers while things were still "hot" from 9/11 and Afghanistan refusing to give us Bin Ladin. The first thing he should have done was pretty much put a gag on the media. Allow them to collect information, but not to broadcast anything that isn't pro-war until say a decade after the cessation of hostilities (this is why for example we know about American "atrocities" during WW II, but they aren't well known or popularized, pretty much we did everything that 'only the bad guys' do. That is why things like hard interrogation ARE standard operating procedure even if not acknowleged). Then he should have kicked the goverment into overdrive producing information about how evil Muslims are, how nice we had been for ignoring this so long, and taking the absolute worst things that they have ever done, extend them a bit, and then present them all together as a collage of what our enemy is like.

Then once this was done he would have forgotten "Shock and Awe" and simply went in and leveled any cities we could find with artillery and bombs, pumped poison gas over the ruins, and then sent in the armor and artillery to chase down the survivors and fleeing refugees for a bit of two-fisted American justice (ie having them dig their own graves before shooting them).

Groups like the "Hitler Youth" didn't just disappear, think about that when it comes to the techniques used during World War II.

Of course don't get me wrong here, Bush was a greedy bastage which is why he didn't do this. The entire purpose behind "winning the peace" was so that he could reach into the goverment's pockets and pay money out to the private sector for various contracts. Rebuilding, security, etc... all of that stuff was given to buddies of him and Cheney, no doubt in exchange for some nice kickbacks (ie we get you the contract and you secretly give us a percentage of the money back later as a thank you).

This is of course one of the big reasons why this turned into a police action. That and the general attitude that if we can somehow reform The Middle East, we can convince them to sell us oil exclusively should an East Vs. West war break out. Then we'll have the people of the region to defend their oil (which would be going to us and our allies) without having to put our own boots on the ground to try and defend it, when those soldiers would be needed elsewhere.

Really there IS some justification for not fighting the war the way it should have gone (similar to WW II), but I'm increasingly dissatisfied with the outcome especially seeing as this plan seems to have failed, and we should be looking at defanging/declawing the region at least before pulling out.

Basically we can't produce WW II style games because on one hand you have the anti-war movement going strong because of a lack of information control/propaganda. On the other hand if we're hoping these guys will become allies for a later conflict (uh-huh, yeah right, this failed utterly) producing "Muslim Killa: The Game" isn't going to go over too well.

Besides we "won" World War II, other conflicts since then have been police actions that we lost because in general we weren't simply moving to eliminate our enemy and/or the threat they pose and move on. We were trying to impose a degree of stability that we approve of.

>>>----Therumancer--->
 

MagnumJoe

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Darkside360 said:
MagnumJoe said:
Darkside360 said:
Does that person speak for the whole country? I think not.
No but things are so obvious that you don't need to speak to the whole country. Like oil pipe lines. This is no secret.
And you think that those are ours? No.
Dude........
Bottom line........

It's no secret, to the 300 million Arabs what USA is doing in Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, KSA, Jordan, etc...! It's no secret! USA is sucking our blood! In every way! It's no freaking secret! It's NO freaking secret! You don't know it, but believe it or not, 300 million people know it. That's why we hate your freaking government. But we don't hate you, because we know you don't know! And we know that if you knew, you will make a revolution! But US government is doing a damn good job in keeping you asleep! But mind you, that the ignorant of us, hate the whole country!

You don't know what are the US embassy's powers in Egypt. You don't know how USA influence capturing Egyptian citizens for antagonizing US actions! From them was a friend of mine! 2 Actually!

You don't know the total control over banks and assets! You don't know that they force deals on the Egyptian government to keep the country in debt, and in need of USA all the time! They force our corrupt government to sell assets to their puppet businessmen!

You don't know how they enforce the corrupt sick regime of Mubarak in Egypt, to keep the country in hindrance and ignorance!

You don't know anything! Seriously, you don't know what your government is doing! You have NO idea! You have ABSOLUTELY no idea! And here in Egypt, it's no secret! It's announced everywhere! Everything i said is known to everyone! From the poor illiterate, to the conspiring corrupt official! It's even written in the newspapers! Every freaking deal, or transaction made, is announced, while we cry and get angry with no use! And we can't do anything about it, or we will get sucked in a jail and tortured!

The same applies to many other Arab countries!

Everyone knows what is happening! Except American people!
 

Bretty

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Jul 15, 2008
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MagnumJoe said:
Bretty said:
The Strategic Aims were to construct a military pressence in Iraq to be able to bolster support for both the Arabian and Kuwaiti oil supplies --- I think they did this?
Oh my God no these weren't the strategic aims! These are the aims which came up later to fake a strategic victory!

The main aim of the war on Iraq, were 3:

1- Overthrow Saddam
2- End Al-Qaeda
3- WMD

3 didn't exist, 2 didn't end, and 1 is just a facade, as there are many worse dictators around the world.

And not only that, a new problem arose after the invasion: civil war! And mark my words: you will see what happens when the US army goes out of Iraq.

Do you think the Iraqi army has loyalty towards a president who spent all his life in the USA then brought down with a parachute to rule Iraq? Do you think they will forget about race and sects? You are so wrong! Iraq needs someone like Saddam, and by the way, Saddam, was no outcast. Saddam is as brutal as the rest of Iraqis. You people don't know the history of the land, nor the area!

It's simple to say, that we, people who live in the middle east, think like me! Because we know better than you the people and the history! This is an American frail dream! Even if it was for noble intentions, it will NEVER be realized.

All you know is some figures and numbers and calculations. But we know the people! The variable you are ignoring. We know the core that will never change.
There is a huge difference between what they said the war was about and what it actually was about.

"1- Overthrow Saddam
2- End Al-Qaeda
3- WMD"

1- They dont care who is in charge of Iraq as long as they can keep their assets in Country
2- Really? Last time I checked Al-Qaeda has nothing to do with Iraq? They only came in after the invasion to insight more violence (most Iraqi's dont like Al-Qaeda, hence the tribal uprissing against them in the East of Iraq). So you are just wrong here.
3- Again this was the reason given but even the military didn't believe it. Iraq had gotten rid of the WMDs but couldn't say anything at risk of gaining Iranian ire. Now they still broke UN protocals with chemical weapons and mustard gas etc... these were still exceptable for an invasion. They also kept long range SCUDs which, in the UN restrictions, were not meant to be there (I have pictures of friends standing next to them).

Iraq is only country because the British said so... dictators are all that will succede in that part of the world but what does that say about people from the middle east? So I agree with this caviate, trying to make the lives of Iraq's better is hardly a bad thing, misguided maybe, but a bad thing?

And I have to think that most of this Terrorism issue is caused purely because poverty is so rife in these Middle Eastern NAtions that a religious teacher preaching violence is actually heard rather than abused...
 

Devildoc

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Mar 26, 2009
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Eh, stuff like CoD4 and the upcoming MW2 is pretty close to home.. as an Iraq war vet I started getting that panic mode alertness and some pretty vivid memories from playing CoD4.. my body was reacting to it in a way I normally don't react to a game.. I think if a purely accurate Iraq war game came out with really detailed good graphics (on a level of crysis or KZ2, etc) and real battles I might not be able to play it. Especially the battle of Al Nasiriyah, where I was actually a combat medic in, and some horrible things went wrong such as an army convoy went the wrong way and wound up straight in the middle of hostile controlled territory, you all heard about Jessica Lynch and such.. yeah that was that battle. We lost 18 Marines and while you think that body count isn't that high it really hits home when they're people you know. It's been 5 years since I've been in Iraq and I think it's still just a little too soon to have an accurate portrayal of the Iraq war.

Stuff in Iraq was a bit different man.. you'd have the Iraq army regulars fake a retreat, and come behind you in civilian clothes and fire at you, etc. You couldn't be safe judging by a lack of uniform, fucking cowards. House to house fighting etc.

I have to say urban warfare takes a toll.. I feel uncomfortable in alleys and am always checking windows when I go down streets on foot.