Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard vs Space Marines

[Tiger Sora]

I'm sorry, could you cry for help louder I can't hear you over the sound of all these guns.

The Imperial Legion hands down. Nothing the mahreens haz could bring this thing down when it's surrounded by the tens if not hundreds of thousands of men and women. (Before the titan blasts them into the void).

 

[Nouw]

Imperial Guards because they have the cooler memes. [http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20348346.jpg]

My favorite faction, the Imperial Guard, will come out victorious. The space marines can't handle 7 barrels of hell!

I believe it's 11 barrels of hell! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMW7j47eSaE]

 

[Jay Knowles]

I think it all depends on a number of factors
are the space marines the ones to start the war? they could conceivably just start recruiting initiates wholesale, how long would it take the imperial guard to click that that's what the sm were doing?
do the sm coordinate together?
is it just the ig they're fighting? if they dont have the mechanicus or navy on their side I'd say theyre royally screwed, good luck making if off planet and good luck maintaining/getting new weapons and armour.

 

[Slycne]

Great point, but, if put into the context of the U.S. Armed Forces I think the elite units (Ranger, Delta, SEAL, SOG, etc.) would stand a good chance if they had their own logistical resources as the Space Marines do.

Getting slightly off topic, but...

Even setting logistic issues aside, not even a slim really chance. You're taking about multiple divisions of infantry with battalions of tanks, helicopters, planes, artillery, etc all up against maybe a few thousand commandos(the Ranger being one of the larger units are only a single regiment). While special forces are traditional pulled from the best of the best, they are not super-heroes and are often misunderstood to be super-soldiers. What actually truly sets them apart from the rank and file is their specialization. They train to absurd degrees at a narrow field of scenarios: be it unconventional warfare, hostage rescue, search & destroy, etc, but you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Imperial Guard have no space ships.

Apart from the largest fleet in the Imperium.

Controlled by the Imperial Navy. Two separate entities, even though they often work together.

The IG is usually just what people say when they're referencing the entirety of the Imperium of Man, disregarding SM's.

That's how I've always seen it anyway.

If this guy is literally just talking about the droves of Guardsmen then this isn't really even a question worth asking.

You forgot about the SoBs that people don't usually consider under that umbrella.

I always just thought of them as female spess mahreens truth be told.

Well they essentially are(minus any augmentations) but do a vastly specialised and different job. While the Marines are just a general kill shit and the SoB can be this too they tend to be a lot more used against Chaos.

Basically Grey Knights without all the coolness and psykers.

Well kinda but they use a lot of fire based units which is more of their thing.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Space Marines hands down. If it came to all out war, IG would run out of men eventually.

Chances are the Space Marines would run out of bullets long before the IG ran out of men.

This is also a good point.

We have fluff and some canon of Space Marines being able to keep pace with vehicles for an extended period of time.

One Assault Marine dropping into 50 guard. It will be a mess, and it will be quick as the chainsword plus power armor and enhanced strength will power through those bodies.

It will not always be about how many guns you have.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Imperial guard would win hands down no questuions I don't fucking care how kick ass the space marines are. Step one. Surround and planatary bombard into oblivion every space marin planet, space station and fortress. Mop up survivors.

You can;'t beat that, The mary sue fanboys can shut up about how awesome the marines are. I don't give a fuck how great the Space Wolves are, a imperial fleet destroys Fenris completely. How awesome would the Ultramarines be if Maccragge gets cyclonic bombarded for a few weeks. None of the space marine chapters have strong fleets. All the fleets are the Imperial navy (which would fall under the guard as Imperium forces. Ditto for the Sister of Battle, the Adeptus mechanuicus and the Inquisiton.... On and the Navigators. You know the ones who drive the fucking ships? I think they'd fall under the Imperial Guard as well.

The space marines are powerful beyond belief but they can't stand up to something as vast as the Imperium.

Now if you wanna start saying the IG don't get the navy and all that, changes things. But the general dividing line in the fluff is Space marines and everything else.

(Granted the Gray Knights, and the Adeptus Custodes (sp) the Emperor's guards are kinda on the fence)

Also remember the IG battle tactics. "Hey we have 10 thousand marines on that planet? Send 100 million men to occuy them while we blow up the planet. They have 1 million? send 10 billion men to hold them for a few hours"

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Imperial guard would win hands down no questuions I don't fucking care how kick ass the space marines are. Step one. Surround and planatary bombard into oblivion every space marin planet, space station and fortress. Mop up survivors.

You can;'t beat that, The mary sue fanboys can shut up about how awesome the marines are. I don't give a fuck how great the Space Wolves are, a imperial fleet destroys Fenris completely. How awesome would the Ultramarines be if Maccragge gets cyclonic bombarded for a few weeks. None of the space marine chapters have strong fleets. All the fleets are the Imperial navy (which would fall under the guard as Imperium forces. Ditto for the Sister of Battle, the Adeptus mechanuicus and the Inquisiton.... On and the Navigators. You know the ones who drive the fucking ships? I think they'd fall under the Imperial Guard as well.

The space marines are powerful beyond belief but they can't stand up to something as vast as the Imperium.

Now if you wanna start saying the IG don't get the navy and all that, changes things. But the general dividing line in the fluff is Space marines and everything else.

(Granted the Gray Knights, and the Adeptus Custodes (sp) the Emperor's guards are kinda on the fence)

Step #1: Remember that the Imperial Navy is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #2: Remember that the Navis Nobilite are not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #3: Remember that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #4: Remember that the fight is between the Space Marines and the Imperial GUARD and not the rest of the forces of the Imperium.

This is what makes the entire concept sketchy at best. Who supplies these forces? Where do the other forces of the Imperium stand on this? What's going on with all the xenos and heretics while this is all going down? What time period is this all taking place in!? Too many variables not accounted for.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Step #1: Remember that the Imperial Navy is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #2: Remember that the Navis Nobilite are not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #3: Remember that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #4: Remember that the fight is between the Space Marines and the Imperial GUARD and not the rest of the forces of the Imperium.

This is what makes the entire concept sketchy at best. Who supplies these forces? Where do the other forces of the Imperium stand on this? What's going on with all the xenos and heretics while this is all going down? What time period is this all taking place in!? Too many variables not accounted for.

Point taken. I think though the OP did intend it as "All Space Marines" VS. "All the Imperium Forces" least how I'm treating it.

I don't think you can take the Navy, etc etc away from the Guards anyways, they all way to joined at the hip.

And god forbid if you toss in th Inquistion with their ability to grab whatever they want. 'I need a fleet? YOINK! I need 7 cvhapters of Sisters of Battle, 2 Titan Legion and 5 Chapter masters dancing the mazurka? YOINKITY YOINK YOINK"

 

[Pharsalus]

..you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.

No, you call them to assassinate the mayor and blow up the supply depot. By constant use of disruption and irregular warfare an elite group could run circles around a big bloated army. The Space Marines would never just stand there and let themselves be overwhelmed. Titans and a trillion men are all well and good, but what happens when the transport ships are sabotaged, the plans intercepted, the lines of communication cut? The compact nature of the Space Marines is an asset against against a force as cumbersome as the I.G..

 

[Kikyoo]

I love thinking exercises like this, but this one really degenerates quickly. Everything the space marines "take" is held by IG. All the forge worlds, all the supply lines, everything but the front line is held by IG. Without a foundation to stand on. Without those millions of people behind the space marines, they've got no firm foundation to fight a war. Take that away and the space marines are just glorified tin cans. I mean do space marines know how to fly ships? could they pilot their own craft? I suppose they can but still when they arn't it's held by IG. Space marines entrust EVERYTHING else to the IG so in an all out war they've got nothing.
So if you just have a big battle all the IG vs all the space marines all at once in one giant cluster fuck? Well IG will probably win. Space marines can do some amazing things, but in a fight like that, it doesn't play well to their strengths.

In a longer more drawn out war they run out of supplies. Sure they can take large amonts of what they need from IG, but that basicly means they have a scavenger existance. Eventually IG would stop making stuff compatible for the Space Marines to take, and then their supplies run dry and now you've got space marines with Flashlights trying to fight the IG. They will lose eventually. Unless your telling me that Space Marines know how to repair that ridiculously huge armor they have on.
BUT here is the worst part of this whole scenario. IF the Space marines did win... what then? They don't know how to be farmers, builders, workers. All they know is war. Bloody lot of good that is going to do them if they don't have those millions of people to fuel those absurdly huge fleets. Even if Space marines could win, they still lose.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Point taken. I think though the OP did intend it as "All Space Marines" VS. "All the Imperium Forces" least how I'm treating it.

I don't think you can take the Navy, etc etc away from the Guards anyways, they all way to joined at the hip.

And god forbid if you toss in th Inquistion with their ability to grab whatever they want. 'I need a fleet? YOINK! I need 7 cvhapters of Sisters of Battle, 2 Titan Legion and 5 Chapter masters dancing the mazurka? YOINKITY YOINK YOINK"

And this is the flaw of the question:

If the Imperial Guard is supposed to read "The Forces of the Imperium" then the IG win. The Mechanicus alone could defeat the Space Marines, let alone the entirety of the Imperium if it chose to declare war.

On the flip side, the Imperial Guard have no real resources that belong to themselves aside from some mechanized units and a shit load of foot soldiers. Titans belong to the Mechanicus, ships belong to the Navy, their munitions belong to the Departmento Munitorum, psykers being ruled over by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Really, the IG covers very little of the Imperium's fighting forces as a whole, which, ultimately, makes the useless without the rest of their support and easy prey for the Space Marines who are incredibly self-sufficient.

There are just too many gaps left in the question to answer it properly, this being the most glaring one.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Who has the biggest tanks?

The ones with the biggest tanks.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

I love thinking exercises like this, but this one really degenerates quickly. Everything the space marines "take" is held by IG. All the forge worlds, all the supply lines, everything but the front line is held by IG. Without a foundation to stand on. Without those millions of people behind the space marines, they've got no firm foundation to fight a war. Take that away and the space marines are just glorified tin cans. I mean do space marines know how to fly ships? could they pilot their own craft? I suppose they can but still when they arn't it's held by IG. Space marines entrust EVERYTHING else to the IG so in an all out war they've got nothing.
So if you just have a big battle all the IG vs all the space marines all at once in one giant cluster fuck? Well IG will probably win. Space marines can do some amazing things, but in a fight like that, it doesn't play well to their strengths.

In a longer more drawn out war they run out of supplies. Sure they can take large amonts of what they need from IG, but that basicly means they have a scavenger existance. Eventually IG would stop making stuff compatible for the Space Marines to take, and then their supplies run dry and now you've got space marines with Flashlights trying to fight the IG. They will lose eventually. Unless your telling me that Space Marines know how to repair that ridiculously huge armor they have on.
BUT here is the worst part of this whole scenario. IF the Space marines did win... what then? They don't know how to be farmers, builders, workers. All they know is war. Bloody lot of good that is going to do them if they don't have those millions of people to fuel those absurdly huge fleets. Even if Space marines could win, they still lose.

The IG has the same problem. They only consist of the foot soldiers and mechanized companies that the Imperium uses to invade and hold planets. They don't have spaceships(Imperial Navy), they don't have people to fix their tanks (Mechanicus), they don't have processing plants(Departmento Munitorum). The Space Marines at least have the Techmarines going for them, who are bale to repair vehicles, armour, weapons and other equipment and who could also help construct facilities to process ammunition and spare parts with chapter serfs or servitors running the places. They also have Librarians who can pilot ships through the warp as a last resort, as well as Space Marines who are trained to pilot Thunderhawks and the like. The IG just don't have those kinds of units within their department of the Imperium.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

..you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.

No, you call them to assassinate the mayor and blow up the supply depot. By constant use of disruption and irregular warfare an elite group could run circles around a big bloated army. The Space Marines would never just stand there and let themselves be overwhelmed. Titans and a trillion men are all well and good, but what happens when the transport ships are sabotaged, the plans intercepted, the lines of communication cut? The compact nature of the Space Marines is an asset against against a force as cumbersome as the I.G..

The Space Marines are too arrogant to use -camouflage-. Actual guerrilla warfare is "beneath" them.

 

[The Heik]

So my buddy and I were debating who would win in a all out war. Who would win in a galactic war all the Imperial Guard or all of the Space Marines?

As much as I'm a fan of the good ol' Adeptus Astartes, the Guard would win any straight up fight

the Imperial guard numbers in the billions and has the majority of the Imperial Navy at their beck and call, while the Astartes are at maximum only a millions brothers strong (witha good chunk of those being scouts).

Now as fantastic as marines are in comparison to your average guardsmen, they are designed for special operations. In a blitzkrieg or surgical strike they may be unmatched, but in a war of attrition they simply can't bring enough firepower or resources to deal with the sheer number of imperial guard they will face.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Well, look at the Horus Heresy.

A little less than half of the Astartes went rogue and declared War on the Imperium.
It took the remaining Legions and the Imperial Army to barely survive the attacks.

So if the remaining loyalist Astartes decide to strike out against the Imperium it doesn't seem to me that the IG stands much of a chance.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Well, look at the Horus Heresy.

A little less than half of the Astartes went rogue and declared War on the Imperium.
It took the remaining Legions and the Imperial Army to barely survive the attacks.

So if the remaining loyalist Astartes decide to strike out against the Imperium it doesn't seem to me that the IG stands much of a chance.

But but but but but!

That was much more Space Marines vs Space Marines. Nothing else was really involved. And also, back then the Space Marines were in Legions of ..... lots? of marines.

 

[Setrus]

Well...the Space Marines is the Emperor's hammer.
But the Imperial army is the anvil. (technically, I suppose the question is about Space Marines vs Imperial navy and army, aka the imperium)
...I'm pretty sure the hammer would break first.

Well, look at the Horus Heresy.

A little less than half of the Astartes went rogue and declared War on the Imperium.
It took the remaining Legions and the Imperial Army to barely survive the attacks.

So if the remaining loyalist Astartes decide to strike out against the Imperium it doesn't seem to me that the IG stands much of a chance.

But but but but but!

That was much more Space Marines vs Space Marines. Nothing else was really involved. And also, back then the Space Marines were in Legions of ..... lots? of marines.

Not true, the Space Marines back then had LOTS of soldiers under their command, what would later be the imperial guard, heck, part of the reason that the war got so bloody was that these soldiers owed their loyalty to their Space Marine masters. So the Horus Heresy was not just half of the Marines defecting, but half of the galactic army.
Which is of course why the Marines were not only divided into chapters, but the imperial army was separated from them. (though apparenlty the Ultramarines gets to keep soldiers and crap, because they're special. )

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

I would think Space marines. Space marines can Endure long periods of fighting, have better logistics, And can easily bring their spear tip into the enemies weak points. Titan Legions are the sole domain of the Mechianus, no way will they be aloud to take command of them. And space marines don?t need even a bolter, they can use their fist to crush skulls.

Anyway this has happened before Many, Many times. Fenris for example when during the plague of unbelief the heretic cardinal bucharis Flooded the space marine death world in the hopes of conquering the world.

Guard units are notorious for being weak willed, cowardly, and incompetent (officers can only keep order for a short wile). The logistics of using the Hammer of the emperor is a nightmare for something like this. If most guard units were the exception like cadians, Gaunts Ghosts, or catachans there would have been little need for the Iron Hands to carry out Culls amongst the Guard and populations.