Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard vs Space Marines

[duckers101]

so you guys know theres about 764 named chapters in the imperium with about 1000 space marines each i know the ultra marines have a lot more so that would pick up alot of slack but they all are limted to 1000 so asuming marines are still being trained to fill in casualtys they would all have about 900 if the chapters adhere to the codex strictly (even though we know they wont cos "they be totaly G's yall" so that makes about 100,000 space marines, thats being generious, against the trillions of guard? got so my moneys on the IG

sorry for dyslexia'ing all over this thred btw

 

[TheFinish]

The Space Marines aren't the only ones with Exterminatus capable weapons, the Navy has them too.

And lets be serious here, all this hit and run tactics stuff with the marines is well and good, but the moment you attack their homeworld they'll lose their shite and fly right into a battle they can't win. They're sentimental like that. And to the first guy to bring up Fenris, that's true, but it was also a renegade without actual, proper, Imperial support.

And this is, again, considering the Mechanicus stays neutral. If they side with anyone, then that side has an inceredible advantage in the form of maintenance, forge worlds and Titan Legions. The Marines would be completely screwed if the Mechanicus doesn't help them, because unlike guardsmen, whose weapons and ammo and tanks and things can be made in massive quantities and is easy to repair, marine tanks and weapons requires much more upkeep.

So in the end, the Marines can't win. Which was the whole point of Guilliman castrating the Legions after the Horus Heresy.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Two full pages and no one has yet posted this? Oh geez.

But, let's behonest here...
Yes, the Imperials are many, many, MAAAAANY times more then the Mariens. (Do we count the Sisters of Battle here, too?)
So what? The Space Marines have the Inquisition fleet.

"Oh look, another imperial planet revolts. Well sucks to be them, lets NUKE IT OUT OF ORBIT AND THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM WITH IT."
Numbers mean nothing if your enemy can exterminate an entire sector.

Uh...no.

The Space Marines do not command the Inquisition. The Inquisition can in theory command the Space Marines, but the Marines have no authority over the Ordos of the Inquisition.

 

[Daverson]

The guard, obviously. Even assuming that other groups they're traditionally associated with (Navy, Titans etc.) remained neutral.

Marines are swell and all, but they're a rapid reaction force, nothing more. They'd undoubtedly be able to take ground from the guard, but they wouldn't have the numbers or equipment needed to properly hold or occupy it.

'Sides, while all dem humies are arguin' 'bout hooz da boss, da boyz can come an' clobber da hool lot uv'em.

 

[warrcry13]

Space Marines would win. See, the only reason space marines are weak in anyway, is because they are so spread out. If you were to get all of the Space Marines in one location, they would win every war against any race or force. They have the best gear, arguably the most powerful weapons, and the most conviction. After the first 30 minutes of combat, the entirety of the Imperial Guard army would be running away while screaming for their mothers.

You have completely forgot about the Death Korps of Krieg haven't you? No way would the Space Break their morale.....It's impossible. Even Necrons can't make Death Korps break.

Don't forget Cadians either. THey are used to fighting much worse than space marines. You also have the Catachans. That's just to name a few. Then you got Baneblades, armor companies and other mechanized vehicles.

No, i know they exist. Its just that, you have their Space Marine counterparts that are equally as scary. The Black Templar who are more fanatical then any other legion, and fight only in melee combat, and then the Salamanders, who specialize in flame weaponry and have mastercrafted everything, then theres the Blood Angels who can cannot stop from getting close range, going into a blood lust and chain swording everything within 3 miles into a fine paste.

In the end, Space Marines are the most devastating army out there, tech wise, armor wise, and conviction wise. Every Space Marine will fight to the death. A large portion of the IG would throw their weapons to the ground and beg for the emperors mercy at the mere sight of an angry space marine. I mean, we can go by Lore, or by Board rules. Board rules, yes the IG would probably win just be overwhelming numbers, and sheer luck of the dice. But lore wise, it would be in the Space Marines favor every fight. The sight of everyone you served with exploding into red mist because of bolter rounds is enough to break the will of most IG soldiers.

It would be one of the better match ups in my opinion, but i think the Spehss Mahreenz would win. Their weapons are just..... to devastating in comparison. Even vehicle wise, the Space Marines are roughly equal. Were talking about moving lascannons with a chunk of steel and heavy bolters attached to them.

But then again, your talking to a Nurgle fan who thinks both armies would be crushed by Papa Nurgles Sweet embrace <3

Guardsmen see their friends die constantly. You won't have the vast majority of the army break. You may have sections break which you then use that hole to circle and eventually crush under the crush of Humanity. Guardsmen who stand their ground whent he hordes of demons and chaos worshipers charge them. I think they can handle superhumans. Sure some will break, but not all. IF such a conflict were to take place you can be damn sure they will have a charismatic leader to lead. Also don't forget guardsmen also utilise plasma weaponry and mounted heavy bolters.

 

[flames09]

Spak marianas over impaled gerd any dai

 

[Jay Knowles]

guardsmen only fight because if they dont win they die. If the space marines made it clear that if they would spare the survivors how many ordinary foot sloggers would turn? how many generals would take whole armies over if it meant a promotion?
the space marines wouldn't have trouble keeping hold of conquered planets, it'd just be the capturing them in the first place. To that effect, all I think the space marines would have to do is target the fanatics of a defense and bomb them from space, re. space marines have ships, imperial guard do not.

 

[Vhite]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

 

[Jay Knowles]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

the space marines are loyal to the emperor, the imperial guard are loyal to the imperium, it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that the two factions could war against each other.

captcha: snow shovel. why yes, it is cold outside isn't it...

 

[Dtox333]

Me and my brother like to use the "blender" analogy.

You stuff enough crap into the blender, it will eventually clog.

The imperial guard represent this rather nicely.

 

[Vhite]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

the space marines are loyal to the emperor, the imperial guard are loyal to the imperium, it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that the two factions could war against each other.

captcha: snow shovel. why yes, it is cold outside isn't it...

I know that emperor is now basicly just skeleton linked to machine that keeps him alive but doesnt he still rules the empire? Or his he now just a symbol and higher ranked members of IG decide what imperium wants?

 

[shintakie10]

Space Marines. As mentioned before, the Imperial Guard really have no means of defending themselves in an all-out assault vs the Space Marines. They simply are superior all the way down to their genes. And having space ship support brings the Space Marines at a, simply put, unfair disadvantage.

*EDIT*

Numbers keep popping up as an advantage to the IG. Ok, fine. They have that advantage. Is that REALLY an advantage? The technological superiority, the sheer power, strength, and, lets face it, awesomeness of the SM against insurmountable odds really makes me lean towards them. The IG can be epic at times, but, at that point where it would be IG v SM, the Empire of Man would turn their backs on the IG. Loyalty without question to the Emperor and all that.

*EDIT v2.0*

I realize that my avatar is a Necron, and Necron use... well, numbers to their advantage. My judgement still stands.

Who has more guts? The guys in the giant power armor who are literally bred for combat, with the best tech available, or the guy with the flashlight and a paper bag for armor who still goes out there to defend the Imperium?

The IG is infinitely more awesome than those wussy Space Marines because of that fact. The Guard stands against the exact same threats as the Space Marines, but they do it with only their guts and the fear of their commander shootin them if they don't follow orders in their hearts. They also win. They lose a lot in the process, but they'll send a billion men to their deaths before they give up a single inch.

 

[lcyw20]

If only standard tactics were employed, the Imperial Guard will probably win, taking very heavy losses, in a hypothetical all-out war with the Space Marines, assuming the various companies/chapters within each faction disregarded any grudge or suspicion they have for each other. There're quite a few "ifs".

Here's my beef. What is up with the infighting between the various Imperial forces?! You have books and games showing the guards, the marines, and even the Sisters of Battle fighting each other, wasting valuable manpower, resources and time that could be BETTER SPENT DEFENDING AGAINST CHAOS, ORKS, TYRANIDS, AND ELDAR!! BUT NO!!! THEY STICK INFLEXIBLY TO THEIR ORDERS, WHICH HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO EACH ORGANISATION RESPECTIVELY, OBVIOUSLY WITHOUT PRIOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THEIR RESPECTIVE LEADERS, AND REFUSE TO ADJUST AND ADAPT WHEN IT BECOMES OBVIOUS THE ORDERS ARE IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER. You all serve the same Emperor, so do it in the most logical way--i.e. stop killing fellow Imperial forces!

You know what? Forget it! They deserve to be annihilated! Such an old, tired organisation which doesn't adjust to the realities and facts should be allowed to just die. They should all be push-overs with all the infighting, so the fact that Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks not yet able to destroy them must mean the antagonists of the franchise must really suck at what they do. Honour and loyalty is one thing, but to do so without thinking it through-- well there's no other word for it-- is stupid!

 

[GenericAmerican]

Outcome one: Space marines give the guard a bloody nose. . .well more than that, they beat the guard's skull in and break every bone in it's body. ..then they realize that this is like a featherweight beating up on a sumo, and the beaten and bloody corpse of the sumo falls over and crushes the marine to death.

Or outcome two: The people in charge of the guard realize this might actually take more than sheer numbers. And just make a beeline to the Marine's respective home and recruitment worlds, and destroy them completely. Dooming the Marine's in the process.

 

[Zipa]

Depends on the situation, if its a galaxy wide war the IG would win simply through greater numbers.

In a single engagement though the space marines would and have in the past had the upper hand and won (see Kronos and the dark crusade game ) But a lot of it is down to the commander, the same chapter lost horribly and suffered massive casulities because of a incompetent force commander and a competent imperial General.

 

[Zipa]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

Both space marines and Imperial guard units have been known to turn to chaos. That would put them at odds with loyalist forces.

 

[veloper]

guardsmen only fight because if they dont win they die. If the space marines made it clear that if they would spare the survivors how many ordinary foot sloggers would turn? how many generals would take whole armies over if it meant a promotion?
the space marines wouldn't have trouble keeping hold of conquered planets, it'd just be the capturing them in the first place. To that effect, all I think the space marines would have to do is target the fanatics of a defense and bomb them from space, re. space marines have ships, imperial guard do not.

Well, loyal guardsman almost worship space marines anyway and there will be no fight, so I think for this crazy scenario we're not supposed to bring such ties into it.


We'll also have to assume the Navy is still willing to ship the Army, else the guardsmen are stuck on their worlds and won't be able to strike. Then it's just space marines taking out worlds one at a time, with fortress worlds like Cadia that are highly defensible, saved for last, or just besieged until they run out of supplies. So that won't work.
We'd also have to assume every other faction asleep, including human forces like the Inquisition, the Sisters and the Adeptus Mechanicus.

And then the guardsman just win, because there's so many more of them. An IG army vs an space marine army of equal value, should be a roughly equal battle, assuming an intelligent army composition.
Forget space marines and wimpy guardsmen for a moment, all armies put together is like a million tanks vs 1.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Well, this would never happen, UNLESS IT WAS SOME ELDAR PLOT! BURN THE XENOS!

Imperial Guard would win though. They can make the sacrifices to take the home and recruitment worlds of the Space Marines, even if they have to literally drown each of them in the bodies of the Guard. Space Marines take forever to recover from losses and have some pretty important things that can't be replaced. Imperial Guard however is easily replaced.

 

[Morti]

I know that emperor is now basicly just skeleton linked to machine that keeps him alive but doesnt he still rules the empire? Or his he now just a symbol and higher ranked members of IG decide what imperium wants?

As I understand it, he's still technically alive in the Golden Throne, but his only way he can communicate is through the Tarot Cards, psychicly charged cards through which certain individuals are able to divine His Will. (Personally, I doubt that his will is being enacted any more, or has at least been warped).

The High Lords of Terra are the current "rulers" of the Empirium, each being the highest ranking member or the twelve main organisations that make it up.

Supposedly, the High Lords uneringly enact His Divine Will, but personally, I doubt it, they're being delusional at best, self serving at worst (eg, the Emporor was a devout atheist, knowing that belief is what creates warp entities. What would he think of the Echlesiarchy?).

Theoretically, if the Emperor were to be revived (or killed off fully and allowed to reincarnate as a warp god), the High Lords could turn traitor (again, either out of delusion or self interest) and take a significant chunk of the Imperium with them you could get a situation similar to this thread. Although I doubt it would ever be as clear cut. Some Imperial Guard are just as devout as any Space Marine and there'd probably be a fair few chapters that would dismiss the 'new' Emperor as chaos trickery.

On topic: assuming that "Imperial Guard" realy means "Imperial Army sans Space Marines", the IG would win through shear weight of numbers, let alone the tactical advantages they have.

If you mean literally just the Guard versus the Marines, then marines win since the guard will be stuck planetside whilst the marines can potter about in their battle barges picking them off as they please.

 

[v3n0mat3]

Space Marines. As mentioned before, the Imperial Guard really have no means of defending themselves in an all-out assault vs the Space Marines. They simply are superior all the way down to their genes. And having space ship support brings the Space Marines at a, simply put, unfair disadvantage.

*EDIT*

Numbers keep popping up as an advantage to the IG. Ok, fine. They have that advantage. Is that REALLY an advantage? The technological superiority, the sheer power, strength, and, lets face it, awesomeness of the SM against insurmountable odds really makes me lean towards them. The IG can be epic at times, but, at that point where it would be IG v SM, the Empire of Man would turn their backs on the IG. Loyalty without question to the Emperor and all that.

*EDIT v2.0*

I realize that my avatar is a Necron, and Necron use... well, numbers to their advantage. My judgement still stands.

Who has more guts? The guys in the giant power armor who are literally bred for combat, with the best tech available, or the guy with the flashlight and a paper bag for armor who still goes out there to defend the Imperium?

The IG is infinitely more awesome than those wussy Space Marines because of that fact. The Guard stands against the exact same threats as the Space Marines, but they do it with only their guts and the fear of their commander shootin them if they don't follow orders in their hearts. They also win. They lose a lot in the process, but they'll send a billion men to their deaths before they give up a single inch.

I do realize this. Several codexes talk extensively about the bravery of the IG. Taking on seemingly insurmountable odds, etc. My judgement yet stands. The SM are no cowards and will, and have done so, take down a million before one or two of them die. There simply is no better fighting force in the Imperium.