Warren Spector: "Adolescent sexuality?"

[Elate]

Y'know what I'm fed up of? Mildly successful developers telling us what we should and shouldn't have and how we should and shouldn't enjoy our games.

I like ultraviolence in some of my games, because it's just that, ridiculous over the top violence. Just like porn is ridiculous over the top sex. If I wanted realistic games, there are plenty I could also choose from like heavy rain or Arma, if I wanted realistic porn, I could go watch the hundreds of amateur videos.

 

[Rawne1980]

I call this "Bob Geldof Syndrome".

They did something good quite a while ago and think that when they speak, the masses listen.

(Of course "good" is quite subjective depending on if you like the music of Boomtown Rats ..... or Peaches Geldof).

 

[Grygor]

The policies of his company does not constitute an invalidation of his opinion. Is everyone who works for the US Government responsible for the opinions of it's congress? This isn't a man who sets company policy. He's not giving money to them to support their policy. He in no way represents himself as anything other than a project employee. He's doing his job and being artistic to the extent he is permitted. He's making money doing art. That isn't an easy thing to do, and it's not some kind of dirty thing, regardless of it's source. It does not sully his opinion or make it null and void. You're holding him responsible for supporting something he has no control over, and has made no clear gesture of support to other than employment with them.

I have every right to hold him accountable for the actions of his employer. He does not need to work for them. Period.

And it's not merely because they pay him. He has professed a strong "knowledge and passion for Disney". He, by all appearances, willing sold his development studio to Disney. This is a job he is doing because he specifically wants to do this job.

Furthermore, in the very same interview that spawned this thread, he claimed that the very reason he left Eidos was because he disagreed with the direction they were taking. In other words, by his own admission, he does not work for people whose behavior he disapproves of.

Ergo, his working on Mickey Mouse games for Disney constitutes a tacit approval of their business practices.

 

[Zaik]

You know, if anyone here had posted a thread more or less stating the same stuff he says, they'd be mocked for being one of those "stop liking what I don't like" crybabies and shortly fade into the abyss of the 3rd page to never be seen again unless someone necros it to mock them again.

Why is this guy not subject to similar responses?

 

[Condiments]

Not games...

Media.

learn2saw

Hostel much?

Watch any anime? Ever? (j/k, just the vast majority).

Ever read any of Craig Shaw's horror short stories?

Not a games industry problem... a human culture problem.

Scapegoating makes the masses feel better for a while, but the expression of fetishistic violence will use any media available, games could vanish from existence tomorrow and all these problems would still persist.

If we don't play it, we'll watch it, draw it, write it, read it, talk it, hear it, sing it...

So lay off the games or any other single method of expression and take a look at the real source... ourselves and our desire to express these things.

So, you're protesting against the generalized view of videogames as ultra violence simulators by generalizing the tendencies towards violence in both media and human culture in its entirety? Cute.

While its true our media is often an expression of inner selves as a culture, I think its all too easy to simply whitewash the breadth of sheer violence in videogames through the explanation "it's human culture". If games are an expression of ourselves, we ourselves are accountable for the image that is projected by this industry. I, however, believe the problem with videogames and violence may go much deeper, maybe to the core of what makes videogames operate.

I mean, why are developers repeatably failing to create meaningful interaction in games without resulting to excessive violence? There are great examples, but they ultimately remain exceptions in our industry. While we may simply throw our industries failed attempts to generate meaning at the feet of 'culture' and our lust for violence, but the vast disproportion of violence in videogames compared to other mediums is staggering. If the medium is a reflection of vidoegame culture, what does that say about us? Or is it a failure of medium to express anything meaningful?

You should watch this if you're interested by what I've just said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSBn77_h_6Q&list=PL44284B7F254B4024&index=13&feature=plpp_video

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

What you're looking at here is the complaint of an artist that other artists or consumerists are negatively impacting the respectability and artistic value and integrity of his medium.

Exactly that.

He's not blasting anyone. He's not saying these things shouldn't be "allowed". He's simply expressing that it's not productive and he'd love to see his contemporaries move beyond it.

And the term 'adolescent sexuality' is actually quite accurate. There is a phenomenon in adolescents while making the transition to adult culture and experience-of which sexuality is a part- where they tend to overcompensate for previous inexperience or lack of awareness with a hyper-awareness and a still decidedly juvenile take on what is supposed to be less of voyeuristic achievement-fest and more of an interpersonal culture of relational exploration. See the prototypical stereotype of certain fraternities turning sexual acts into an achievement system or other 'games' that mature adults rightfully look down on as an insensitive and immature handling of something that is an expression of intimacy with another human being.

What games was he referring to in particular? What game provoked such a response?

 

[lacktheknack]

What you're looking at here is the complaint of an artist that other artists or consumerists are negatively impacting the respectability and artistic value and integrity of his medium.

Exactly that.

He's not blasting anyone. He's not saying these things shouldn't be "allowed". He's simply expressing that it's not productive and he'd love to see his contemporaries move beyond it.

And the term 'adolescent sexuality' is actually quite accurate. There is a phenomenon in adolescents while making the transition to adult culture and experience-of which sexuality is a part- where they tend to overcompensate for previous inexperience or lack of awareness with a hyper-awareness and a still decidedly juvenile take on what is supposed to be less of voyeuristic achievement-fest and more of an interpersonal culture of relational exploration. See the prototypical stereotype of certain fraternities turning sexual acts into an achievement system or other 'games' that mature adults rightfully look down on as an insensitive and immature handling of something that is an expression of intimacy with another human being.

What games was he referring to in particular? What game provoked such a response?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-14-warren-spector-the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=european-daily

You should read sources, they give you answers.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

What you're looking at here is the complaint of an artist that other artists or consumerists are negatively impacting the respectability and artistic value and integrity of his medium.

Exactly that.

He's not blasting anyone. He's not saying these things shouldn't be "allowed". He's simply expressing that it's not productive and he'd love to see his contemporaries move beyond it.

And the term 'adolescent sexuality' is actually quite accurate. There is a phenomenon in adolescents while making the transition to adult culture and experience-of which sexuality is a part- where they tend to overcompensate for previous inexperience or lack of awareness with a hyper-awareness and a still decidedly juvenile take on what is supposed to be less of voyeuristic achievement-fest and more of an interpersonal culture of relational exploration. See the prototypical stereotype of certain fraternities turning sexual acts into an achievement system or other 'games' that mature adults rightfully look down on as an insensitive and immature handling of something that is an expression of intimacy with another human being.

What games was he referring to in particular? What game provoked such a response?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-14-warren-spector-the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=european-daily

You should read sources, they give you answers.

I do. I was aware of the Hitman Trailer, but someone also auggested that the Tomb Raider trailer had pertinence as well. This is what frustrated me.

 

[lacktheknack]

What you're looking at here is the complaint of an artist that other artists or consumerists are negatively impacting the respectability and artistic value and integrity of his medium.

Exactly that.

He's not blasting anyone. He's not saying these things shouldn't be "allowed". He's simply expressing that it's not productive and he'd love to see his contemporaries move beyond it.

And the term 'adolescent sexuality' is actually quite accurate. There is a phenomenon in adolescents while making the transition to adult culture and experience-of which sexuality is a part- where they tend to overcompensate for previous inexperience or lack of awareness with a hyper-awareness and a still decidedly juvenile take on what is supposed to be less of voyeuristic achievement-fest and more of an interpersonal culture of relational exploration. See the prototypical stereotype of certain fraternities turning sexual acts into an achievement system or other 'games' that mature adults rightfully look down on as an insensitive and immature handling of something that is an expression of intimacy with another human being.

What games was he referring to in particular? What game provoked such a response?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-14-warren-spector-the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=european-daily

You should read sources, they give you answers.

I do. I was aware of the Hitman Trailer, but someone also auggested that the Tomb Raider trailer had pertinence as well. This is what frustrated me.

Well, Tomb Raider WAS the most brutally violent demo on display, and it ticked off a lot of people.

 

[Morti]

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop-warren-spector-6382680

Am I the only one who interpreted that link as "Only Ultraviolence can stop Warren Spector!"

Poor UV, he never did get along well with the other supers...

 

[balanovich]

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop-warren-spector-6382680

Where did his statement stem from? What provoked it? It's irritating.

What's wrong with it?The guy doesn't like violence, big deal.
Why are you so easily irritated?

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I think soemone is jealous because he can not sell his Micky Mouse game to as many people....

Yeah, what he needs to do is plop Mickey Mouse into a generic Call of Duty ripoff and have him, I don't know... gun down a bunch of Jews or something.

Or maybe go back to when there was a good Micky mouse game(genesis days) instead of making a crappy forgettable gimmicky
waggle game.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Not to be a dick, but why should we care about Mr. Spector?

Looking at his wikipedia, it seems the last noteworthy title he worked on was Deus Ex was back in 2000...

I guess you would rather listen to some stuffed shirt in a marketing department trying to sell you the latest violent game. Or some game "journalist" who is terrible at games and is very naive when it comes to the industry but has an English qualification from a university. Or some spotty hormonal 13 year old on a forum who is really angry because some adult might take away his constitutional right to act out his rage in games.

He is an industry veteran who has worked at the highest levels in the creative aspects and production of games. He is also an educator.