Was Mass Effect 3's really that bad? (SPOILERS)

[woodaba]

Thing is, the Deus Ex endings were absolutely perfect, thematically. Sure, the ending-tron 2000 was lame, but the endings themselves were all pretty much perfect. The same cannot be said of ME3.

Yes, Adam talking vaguely over stock footage of a glacier 4 different times is so much better than the ending we got from Mass Effect.

Like I said, excecution? Weak. Eidos Montreal clearly ran out of budget/time. BUT, unlike the Mass Effect endings, the endings are thematically consistent with the rest of the plot, make perfect sense, provide a satisfactory closure to the story of Adam Jensen, all while tying things into the next game in the canon. Mass Effect 3's endings cannot claim any of these things.

 

[immortalfrieza]

[snip]

Don't forget that any of the endings also mean that there will never be a sequel, prequel maybe, but no sequels. Even if Bioware had planned to give closure in future games there's no realistic way to continue the series, Commander Shepard as the MC or not.

Wait... how is "no more sequels" a bad thing?

I'm all for developers bringing their trilogies to a decisive end instead of stringing it along for endless sequels.

Sequels in the same universe is what I'm talking about. I wouldn't want a sequel just being the same story all over again, but there's plenty in the ME universe that could build more stories off of.

That said, they've dropped some very heavy hints that they'll be making more ME games. Exactly what form they will take is a complete mystery to me though.

That was my point, there's really no way they could make more ME games unless they were prequels with how ME3 ended.

Captcha:in limbo

No captcha, the people responsible for the ME3 ending won't get off that easily.

 

[Lachlan Bone]

personaly I found that the game is a much better experience if you were to believe in the indoctrination theory (link if you don't know what this is and generally good video here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI) as if the indoctrination theory is correct than this ending would immediately jump from "OMFG this is the worst thing in gaming I've seen this year" to "a 3rd place contender to one of the greatest endings I've seen these couple of years", maybe even better than Arkham city's.... MAYBE.

 

[Jaeke]

snip?

There's the whole "synthetics will always kill organics so I decided to create synthetics that kill organics and use their liquified bodies to create more synthetics, so that they won't be killed by synthetics" and no... no matter how you decide to twist that around it will never sound any less stupid or nonsensical.

Then there's "you will control us but you will die and lose everything you have"

Bioware in order for something to exercise control over something else, that something has to exist and be self concious in some way shape or form.

Oh and then there's synthetis, "organic and synthetic life will be combined in a new DNA"
So... Synthetics have DNA? is that what you're saying? Genetics don't work that way, it is phisically impossible for someone or something to have synthetic or artificial components in their DNA, it always has been and it always will be.

And one thing that's bothered me for a while that no one seems to mention:

Let's say for a second that it's true that synthetics will always rebel against organics; just for the sake of argument.

If it's true then how do any of the options the catalyst gives you solve this problem?

Destroy doesn't do anything, it just delays it.

Control makes the Reapers go away, but I don't see how that stops future generations from creating new synthetics and starting everything all over again. You could say that Shepard could use the Reapers to wipe out any synthetics that threat to do so, but if it was that simple then why didn't the Reapers do that instead of wiping out organics?

Synthetis.... Oh synthetis. What exactly does merging all synthetic and organic life do to stop this problem? If I merged all the human races on Earth (Caucasian, Black, Asian...) in one race, do you think that somehow all racially related violence would just go away?
Do you think that somehow merging the 2 different DNA's will stop the quest for technologial advancement?

I'm going to stop here, I have more but I'm really not intrested in getting frustrated again.
And I probably put more thought about the ending in this post than whoever at Bioware wrote this.

Oh yeah, and that.

So yeah... I wish I could live in that world of yours but I can't :\

Sucks for me and the other %99

What world of mine? What are you saying?

Not you, I meant the OP. My bad.

 

[-Dragmire-]

I guess we're gonna be getting these threads every time another straggler catches up with the crowd. Fun times.

Anyway, yes. Yes, it really was that bad. If you want a definitive explanation of why just do a forum search or watch that one 40-minute video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs].

I prefer Smudboy's literary critique of it, though the length of his Bookends of Destruction 5 video critique may turn off some people(the last video is an hour and a half long). He also gets nit picky in some areas but overall his critique is the most comprehensive and detailed view on the topic I've seen.

 

[Misterian]

I got spoiled into knowing the ending long before I got to play the game.

I understand the ire that alot of people here have about the ending, as I felt the same way about OP:INTERVIEWS from watching KND.

But then I learned about a lovely little concept called fanon discontinuity: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanonDiscontinuity

I wish no disrespect toward Bioware, but if anyone brings up ME3's ending, I'm just gonna stick my fingers in my ears and sing "lalala! only Reapers destroyed! lalala! mass relays unharmed! et centra."

the Epilogue that came after the credits was a nice touch though.

 

[natster43]

Well the last 10 minutes negated any choice you made previously, introduces a god like entity, was full of plot holes, and in at least 2 of the endings possibly lead to every alien/human on earth or in orbit around earth dying. Not to mention the fact that it also ended up destroying all the Mass Relays, which when that happens in 2 ended up destroying the system it is in. So yeah the ending was bad, but not nearly as bad as the internet made it out to be in my opinion.

 

[TheCommanders]

It's weird, I've seen a lot of these threads popping up lately, asking if the ME3 ending was as bad as everyone claimed. Perhaps there are some who didn't find it as terrible and think that the reaction was purely an emotional one. So let me say this:

Shortly after playing it, I very much hated it on an emotional level. A few days later, having calmed down a bit, I decided to do some analysis and research (because as a student of game design, I felt I should be able to compile a list of logical reasons why I thought something was terrible, in order to never replicate it) and after that I hated the ending (taken literally) on an intellectual level. It's not thematically consistent with the game, has huge gaping contradictions with established lore and canon, and was not satisfying as a conclusion.

I do really like the indoctrination theory, and honestly, if the Extended Cut proves it to be non-canon I think I'll stick with it anyway, because it's the only way I can reconcile the endings into anything resembling coherence.

 

[ecoho]

Before somebody comes in going ""the decisions you make completely shape the experience" and "your choices drive powerful outcomes""

I got that though out the game though, I don't see any false advertising, that advertising didn't mention the ending.

The ending was alright, could have been great, just poorly executed.

you just took the words right out of my mouth. all the ending needed was a little text before the credits like they did in dragon age and the game would have been perfect.

 

[Khazoth]

This discussion totally isn't a pointless and utter waste of time for two completely radical sides to tell the other side how infantile and stupid the other is.

 

[Kingjackl]

The geth allied with the Reapers because the Quarians attacked. That would've happened regardless. Also, destroying the heretics is one of the options that increases your chance for peace, since the Quarians end up taking fewer casualties.

It was established in the previous game that Xen found it after the trial if you didn't reveal it. She tells you in an email, all that changes is whether or not Tali's father becomes vilified and she loses her loyalty.

Cosmetic differences? Of course there were cosmetic differences, they were different people with the same job! What did you expect?

It's one thing to be disappointed with how the choices played out. That's a valid opinion. Blunt accusations that your choices don't matter is not a valid opinion, it just makes everybody look like entitled nitpickers.

The Quarians start a war because they found Rael's data regardless of what you did (aka your tough choice is pointless), a war that forces the Geth to ally themselves with the Reapers, which renders your other choice pointless, as i like to call it the double cop out.

Why people even vote for president/prime minister then? It's still the same job right? Because they expect different people to go about their jobs in different ways...

It's OK to be cool with the way the choices are represented in ME3, it's your personal choice and i won't argue that, but to say that previous choices shaped the story in meaningfull ways? That's an outright lie.

The exception to the rule? offing Wrex on Virmire, that one really gives a whole new light and consequences to the genophage arc.

Yes, we can all agree that the Tuchanka arc was a great example of player choices affecting the game in regard to who was ruling the krogan, if Eve was stabilising them and if chosing to cure the genophage is the right idea or not. More stuff like that would have been great, but few other missions warranted that kind of attention.

Also, the choice with Rael'Zorah's data was meaningful, just in a different way to what you were expecting. Submitting it exonerates Tali from the treason charges, but at the cost of implicating her father and turning him into a war criminal. She'll lose her loyalty, be less likely to survive the suicide mission, but if she does survive, she'll be an admiral and becomes one of the supporting factors in the bid for peace. It didn't directly affect the quarian-geth war, that was just the background for the trial conflict.

As for the Council, they do go about the job in different ways - new council won't support you for reinduction into the Spectres in ME2 unless Anderson is leading them. New salarian councillor is more accepting of the genophage cure, while the old one gives you a larger reward for saving him from Kai Leng. Similarly, the old council will give you the Destiny Acension as part of the war effort to compensate for the Alliance ships you lost saving them. These are examples of the new and old council going about the job differently. Admittedly it's not a radical difference, but it's still a difference.

The story of the Mass Effect games always progressed in a linear fashion regardless of the choices you make. These choices aren't meant to change the entire structure of the plot and no one should expect them to - the game would simply be too big, with too many possibilities to account for and a higher likelihood for things to get rushed over or simply bugged. Some people saved the Council, some people sacrificed them. Some people destroyed the heretics, some people rewrote them. Did that change the story? Not really. Does it affect how we roleplay our characters? Yes it does.

 

[kellhounds]

It was awful because the missions on Earth rendered most your decisions throughout the trilogy meaningless, they were all the same ending with diffident colored magic fixy laser blast, and some how this game made saving all organic life rather unremarkable.

 

[michael87cn]

=================There are spoilers below, for ME3.====================


I think the indoctrination theory is at least partially correct. The ending of ME3 is clearly a dream sequence of some kind. So, it is a pretty original ending to a story.

1) Build up a lot of preamble about a big war to be fought against an alien race

2) Charge into an exciting battle

3) Break the mold and cliche ending with a twist; fight off the reapers in your own mind and make the right choice

I do think that the endings could have at least had different outcomes even though they were all dream sequences once Shepard was hit by the beam anyway. I also think that they should have not ended it at Shepard taking a gasping breath, but showed the results of all your labors.

Ah well. These things happen in entertainment.