Was Mass Effect 3's really that bad? (SPOILERS)

[Pickles]

To answer:

The ending was bad.

The reaction was overblown, vitriolic, and represented the ending as being far worse than it actually was.

The rest of the game was great, and should not have been overshadowed by five minutes of silliness, even if it was the end.

Also, if you encounter a Mass Effect fanboy who says 'Indoctrination Theory is right' or 'none of my choices mattered', then ignore them. Their opinion is wrong and they have nothing worthwhile to contribute.

I think its a bit unfair to dismiss people who say the choices didn't matter. No one would deny they had an impact on the game, its just that people wanted that impact to be more than a couple of numbers on the war asset screen.

Look what they did with the rachni. If you saved the queen in the first game, you'd get strange asari coming up to you with messages from it. And then in the third game, whether or not you saved it has very little narrative effect, because if not they just write another one in anyway.

 

[The_Lost_King]

- No closure. Can you tell me what became of the various civilizations and characters? No, you cannot. That's because the ending failed to provide closure.

-
Thank you and goodnight.

Well I can tell you that. They all died. If they went to earth they can't get home, if they were at colonies or home planets they couldn't survive cut off or they perished when the world ran out of resources.

Rather than repeat myself I shall simply direct your attention to the post two places above your own.

Well now I wonder how the writers are going to explain that.

 

[Kingjackl]

To answer:

The ending was bad.

The reaction was overblown, vitriolic, and represented the ending as being far worse than it actually was.

The rest of the game was great, and should not have been overshadowed by five minutes of silliness, even if it was the end.

Also, if you encounter a Mass Effect fanboy who says 'Indoctrination Theory is right' or 'none of my choices mattered', then ignore them. Their opinion is wrong and they have nothing worthwhile to contribute.

I think its a bit unfair to dismiss people who say the choices didn't matter. No one would deny they had an impact on the game, its just that people wanted that impact to be more than a couple of numbers on the war asset screen.

Look what they did with the rachni. If you saved the queen in the first game, you'd get strange asari coming up to you with messages from it. And then in the third game, whether or not you saved it has very little narrative effect, because if not they just write another one in anyway.

I think the rachni thing was a result of them creating this whole side mission to deal with that and not wanting to exclude all the people who killed the original queen, or started with ME2. It's still affected by your choices: if you saved the original queen, she's taken by the Reapers and the army she was building becomes indoctrinated. To save her again, you have to sacrifice part of Grunt's team. It's definately less black and white than the first choice was.

Meanwhile, if you killed the queen, the Reapers get their rachni army by creating a clone. Sure, people will scream 'cop-out', but it still has an impact - if you save this one, she'll betray you, making the choice between her or Arlakh Company is a lot easier than it would be if you saved the original.

I do understand where people are coming from in regard to being disappointed by choices. I don't mind them being represented by the War Asset computer, but it would have been nice to see more of them in the final battle. I just get a bad taste in my mouth when people outright say 'the choices didn't matter'. It sounds incredibly hyperbolic and outright unjustified. On a game with a galaxy-wide scale, not every choice is going to have a huge impact on the plot, and the story always needs to progress in a fairly linear fashion. That's not unreasonable, that's to be expected.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Eh, it's your opinion if you disliked it or not.

I personally don't care for the ending, because of the fact that the choices you make in the game don't affect the ending. At all.

True, there is the "Indoctrination" theory involved. (Something about the Reapers affecting Shepherd's choices?) But to me, that makes it even worse, it's like s/he had no say in the final outcome anyway.

Or maybe that's because I don't like the idea of being a slave to one's destiny...

As much as it sucks, the indoctrination theory actually makes for a much better ending.
Even though it kind of wrecks the flow of the series, its the only way in which the ending makes any kind of sense... even if its still not enough.

Also because it seems like they kind of planned it. There are WAY too many indications that bioware were working along those lines, and I really hope that the ending was EA's fault. If I'd bookmarked the link I'd share it here but theres a lot of stuff that points towards an indoctrination ending.

Depending on how the additional ending DLC pans out, im sticking with the indoctrination theory

If you actually play though the game knowing the indoctrination theory you figure out all the holes within the theory itself making it a crackpot desperation attempt that didn't really need to be made.

 

[Erttheking]

Was the hatred for the ending unjustified?...NO!




It's an abomination if I ever saw one, the extended cut is going to have to pull a miracle to make this work.

 

[Jaeke]

snip?

There's the whole "synthetics will always kill organics so I decided to create synthetics that kill organics and use their liquified bodies to create more synthetics, so that they won't be killed by synthetics" and no... no matter how you decide to twist that around it will never sound any less stupid or nonsensical.

Then there's "you will control us but you will die and lose everything you have"

Bioware in order for something to exercise control over something else, that something has to exist and be self concious in some way shape or form.

Oh and then there's synthetis, "organic and synthetic life will be combined in a new DNA"
So... Synthetics have DNA? is that what you're saying? Genetics don't work that way, it is phisically impossible for someone or something to have synthetic or artificial components in their DNA, it always has been and it always will be.

And one thing that's bothered me for a while that no one seems to mention:

Let's say for a second that it's true that synthetics will always rebel against organics; just for the sake of argument.

If it's true then how do any of the options the catalyst gives you solve this problem?

Destroy doesn't do anything, it just delays it.

Control makes the Reapers go away, but I don't see how that stops future generations from creating new synthetics and starting everything all over again. You could say that Shepard could use the Reapers to wipe out any synthetics that threat to do so, but if it was that simple then why didn't the Reapers do that instead of wiping out organics?

Synthetis.... Oh synthetis. What exactly does merging all synthetic and organic life do to stop this problem? If I merged all the human races on Earth (Caucasian, Black, Asian...) in one race, do you think that somehow all racially related violence would just go away?
Do you think that somehow merging the 2 different DNA's will stop the quest for technologial advancement?

I'm going to stop here, I have more but I'm really not intrested in getting frustrated again.
And I probably put more thought about the ending in this post than whoever at Bioware wrote this.

Oh yeah, and that.

So yeah... I wish I could live in that world of yours but I can't :\

Sucks for me and the other %99

 

[Texas Joker 52]

I guess we're gonna be getting these threads every time another straggler catches up with the crowd. Fun times.

Anyway, yes. Yes, it really was that bad. If you want a definitive explanation of why just do a forum search or watch that one 40-minute video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs].

If you want a quick rundown, well...

- No closure. Can you tell me what became of the various civilizations and characters? No, you cannot. That's because the ending failed to provide closure.

- No accounting for choice. Even the final A, B or C choice only changes the colour of the the explosion [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA].

- Introduces new plot elements and new conflicts in the final ten minutes of the narrative. This is bad storytelling. A good story does not introduce, explain and resolve an entire arc with the final 14 lines of dialogue.

- The motivations for the Reapers given in those final 14 lines make no sense. Perhaps that was intentional, but if so why don't we get to call them out on this?

- It invalidates and contradicts much of the previous games. For example, if the Citadel was housing an active super AI all along, why the fuck did Sovereign need to go to all that trouble to switch the damn thing on?

- Finally, well... it involves a glowing child emerging out of nowhere and rewriting the plot in the final ten minutes with 14 lines of dialogue. I should not have to explain why this is crap.

...

If you're satisfied by that standard of storytelling in your games then congrats. Go play Gear of War or something (hurr hurr). Some of us were expecting something of a slightly higher standard and were thus bitterly disappointed.

Thank you and goodnight.

Very much all of this. The ending sucked. It didn't invalidate everything that came before, because overall, Mass Effect 3 is fucking awesome. It had moments of great emotion, wonderful storytelling, and excellent characterization.

Its just that all of that so starkly contrasts against the ending, making it seem even worse. It doesn't help that the ending DOES invalidate some of the lore, namely what happens to a solar system when a Mass Relay all up and explodes in it. (I'm looking at you Arrival.)

Now, I'm hoping, not much mind you, but hoping that the Extended Cut DLC helps. I doubt it, but I hope. After all, its 1.9 gigabytes of new dialogue, cutscenes and epilogue. I know a lot of those bytes are just slightly different parts that likely have to do with certain decisions, but I am mildly optimistic.

... But nothing will change the fact that seeing that kid in any form, makes me want to club baby seals.

 

[kingthrall]

Id buy the game regardless of opinion if it didnt have Origin software

 

[C2Ultima]

I know right personally the execution reminded me of Deus Ex: Human Revolution but they Deus Ex's ending were so much worse!! don't get me wrong that was an awesome game.

Yeah Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a great game, but it seems like they rushed the ending a bit.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

I really liked the game, better than ME2 (although I liked the Loyalty Missions, but I didn't like how it shoved you into Story Missions). Never played #1 because I don't have an Xbox, I dont get all gushy over RPG's and I don't play a lot of games to find the chest high wall gameplay irritating.

But all the Fan raving ruined it for me. I cant go back and play without some cluster fuck of Howler monkey screaming going off in my head of mothafuckers bitching their hearts out. I didn't care about the ending, I can't even point to an ending I ever thought was any good.

Regardless Mass effect 3 is a GREAT GAME. Endings and Fan Screaming not withstanding.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Honestly, IMO, it was amazing up until the last 10 minutes. I've managed to rationalize the ending by expanding on the ending myself using what they gave me as the basis. It's not a good ending but with a little imagination it gas become acceptable for me. Accept for the teleporting crew members from Earth to the Normandy at the end but I'll overlook that because it isn't that big of a deal.

I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the game to the point of it so far being my GOTY (although Borderlands 2 or ACIII might take over that spot). I realize that a lot of fans are annoyed that it was more action than rpg but as I've only played the latter 2 thirds of the series, this wasn't that big of a deal for me. I was pissed at first but upon further reflection, and with the help of my imagination filling in the gaps, the ending was alright.

Depending on how far you let your imagination fill in the ridiculous plot holes, the ending can be as shitty or as great as you want it to be. I realize that this wad probably not the developer's intent, but hey, if I can manage to fill in the gigantic amount of plot holes by making wild assumptions and jumping to somewhat far fetched conclusions all to save the ending for me, then so he it.

The game felt like Uncharted in space with some rpg thrown in and you essentially get to make up your own ending. That is a great game to me.

 

[OpticalJunction]

To highlight the flaws in mass effect 3's ending you need only to look at mass effect 2. It did the ending right. And it did it without making a mess of the game's lore.

 

[Kingjackl]

To answer:

The rest of the game was great, and should not have been overshadowed by five minutes of silliness, even if it was the end.

Also, if you encounter a Mass Effect fanboy who says 'Indoctrination Theory is right' or 'none of my choices mattered', then ignore them. Their opinion is wrong and they have nothing worthwhile to contribute.

Excuse however you want it, choices were irrelevant for the most part.

Reprogram/destroy the Heretics differences? All Geth surrender to the Reapers either way, plus some number bonus...
Withhold, Rael Zorah's data? they get it anyway...
Killed/Saved the council? Just cosmetic differences...

I could go on.

The geth allied with the Reapers because the Quarians attacked. That would've happened regardless. Also, destroying the heretics is one of the options that increases your chance for peace, since the Quarians end up taking fewer casualties.

It was established in the previous game that Xen found it after the trial if you didn't reveal it. She tells you in an email, all that changes is whether or not Tali's father becomes vilified and she loses her loyalty.

Cosmetic differences? Of course there were cosmetic differences, they were different people with the same job! What did you expect?

It's one thing to be disappointed with how the choices played out. That's a valid opinion. Blunt accusations that your choices don't matter is not a valid opinion, it just makes everybody look like entitled nitpickers.

 

[boag]

Ok guys, FINALLY got around to finishing Mass Effect 3 due to being a massive fan of the series and the accumulated hate the endings got. I personally chose the "Synthesis" (green) ending, so all my words are coming from that experience but, well, I didn't find it that bad. Sure it was a simple "do you want ending A, B, C?" but I didn't really care. It provided closure, which is pretty rare in AAA titles today. The only really BAD criticism I can give about it is,
A) I hate that kids face.
and
B) It reminded me too much of Final Fantasy X IMO.
Anyway I'm sure there is probably another forum with the same topic as this and if that is so, sorry, and I know I'm probably opening up a pretty close subject, but I just wanted to get this out and share perspectives with other people (not many of my friends play Mass Effect)

people seem to misunderstand the whole issue.

The hatred wasnt caused because of the ending.

No, The ending is only responsible for disappointment.


The hatred comes from Bioware, EA, a heck of a lot of Gaming Review sites calling anyone disappointed in the ending, and I quote "Whiny Entitled Homophobic Brats" and doing everything in their power to paint anyone that didnt like the ending in the colors of statement.

People that were just asking for a bit more closure got spat in the face by people they though had the same interest in videogames as they did.

Customers got told off.

Fans were mistreated.

For the unforgivable crime of "Not Appreciating Biowares Artistic Integrity"

 

[RyoScar]

I thought the ending was fine, not the best, but not terrible. I've seen worse endings. However the rest of the game is one of best i've ever played.

 

[Joccaren]

Well, how should I start...

1. Possibly the most lacking final mission I have ever played. It had a grand total of 0 atmosphere and I gave a grand total of 0 f***s about Earth thanks to that mission. The game had failed to connect me with Earth in the intro, and in the end I'm guessing it was relying on the good ol' "Oh no! Its fake Earth! Your fake home!" card to engage me. Sadly, that doesn't quite work - especially when all I see of my "Home" is a few bits of charred rubble that could be anywhere on any planet in the galaxy. It didn't feel special, it was basically just a glorified horde mode leading into a highly unsatisfying ending.
2. The Deus Ex Machina/Magic Bullet - AKA: Crucible. Yeah, they do ruin stories. There was literally no way you could not win the Reaper war thanks to this little piece of sh**. It worked off magic, and somehow solved all your problems in a way that is never really explained well. There is no satisfaction from using it - its just some gimmik the designers threw in to force you to win. It causes all your choices to mean basically nothing in the fact that they really do very little for the Crucible, and apparently change f*** all in terms of anything else - at least until the EC. This inclusion to the game severed my connection to the Reaper war, and after it was used at pretty much face value to just utterly destroy/control/synthesise the Reapers, with no chance of failing to do so, no struggle after its use - I just gave 0 f***s about the war. If that's how it ended, there's really not that much interesting about it any more. If LOTR ended with Chuck Norris coming down, roundhouse kicking Sauron's tower, which killed him forever, and caused the ring to explode, fatally wounding Frodo, whilst all of Frodo's friends were somehow on a giant owl above that Elven City, which then crashed before they partied the night out you would find it highly disappointing. That's how it felt for me in ME3.
3. No closure. I'm surprised you said it had closure, and that that was something most AAA games were missing these days. A lot of AAA games have sequel hooks sure, but even they have more closure then ME3. ME3 basically tells you "Yeah, the war is over. You stopped the Reapers. Uhmmm. Your crew are on some planet somewhere, and in 10K years this old guy will tell his kid about you". Closure [And Artistic Integrity]. You can use your imagination to create your own headcannon for what else happens, but why bother playing the story if the point is to imagine it? Its not my job to write the story, its Bioware's. If I wanted to imagine all my closure, I'd have imagined the whole damn game and had a far more satisfying experience.
4. Shepard is even more OOC than the rest of the game. Role playing Shepard is hell in ME3 - especially considering his/her attitudes are predefined towards almost everything, you just get to make one or two key choices for them. My Shepard wouldn't have just listened to the Catalyst. He wouldn't have just sat there and said "I... Don't know". He would have fought to his dying breath to give this cycle a chance, and get answers. He would have argued about the Reaper's reasons, would have refuted them, and had all options been sh** [Which they were] - he would have said no and let the fleets fight it out. The Shepard in ME3 - especially in the ending - is not mine. They're Bioware's, and this disconnected me from the character.
5. Re-using the Rannoch story arch's main theme as a cheap excuse for the entire series' main theme. Synthetics vs Organics, Created vs Creators, Man vs Machine - that was Rannoch. I've already dealt with this issue. Why bring it up again?. IMO the Reaper's motives should not have been explained. They are unknowable, Lovecraftian Horrors. Right up until ME3. I think this video sums it up pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHcuBzTCM
That's BS IMO. This disconnected me from the Reapers, as they were no longer interesting - just you're stereotypical "I'm trying to do a good thing, though my methods are extreme" bad guy.
5. The Catalyst. Bioware already tried the Child thing on Earth. Why some random child who had 30 seconds of screen time is the avatar for the Reapers boss/commander/owner/W.E is beyond me. Why the Reapers even had a boss who needed an Avatar was beyond even that. What happened to "We are each independent, a nation" and "We are without beginning and without end". Suddenly the Reapers are just some "Solution" to this kids problem's. This disconnected me from the Citadel - as it was under the control of this kid, and more than a few previous events make no sense with that in mind - it disconnected me even further from the Reapers - not only are they just generic enemies now, but they are generic henchmen enemies, like a husk is - and made me lose interest in a whole lot of things about the ME plot with what it introduced.

There are many other reasons I don't like the ending, but I CBF writing them all down now. Suffice to say - it sucked. Hard.