Well I won't be buying the new Tomb Raider...

[Elamdri]

what im garnering from everyone is that she is... raped? thats kind of a sick attempt to get us to feel sorry. could anyone link me to an article that says this?

She's not raped. She gets stranded on some island with a bunch of like modern day pirates or something of that nature, one of them captures her and of course what's going to happen to a pretty young girl lost in the middle of no-where captured by captain Mclustalot? He's going to try and rape her. However, I think she gets a gun or something and shoots him before he can do it.

 

[Smeatza]

I've only played one Tomb Raider game, Angel of Darkness.
I will never buy one again.

OT: Just seems like a poor choice of words on Rosenburg's part.

 

[Ryotknife]

i will admit that i like her new look, but the rape thing....yea poor plot choice.

 

[lacktheknack]

I've only played one Tomb Raider game, Angel of Darkness.
I will never buy one again.

This breaks my heart. You got the only bad one of the bunch (OK, "Chronicles" was less than stellar, but nowhere near the abysmal pit of abysmality that is "Angel of Darkness"). You should go to gog.com and get the three-pack. It has the original, the second (most popular) one, and the third (best of the series) one for ten bucks.

I'm actually penning a review of the first one right now (I finished it yesterday).

 

[Elamdri]

Snip

*Reads OP* I can see where you're going with this- *reads the part about rape* ... what??

*Reads article, and comes to see this.*

And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her.

...... What?!

Ppft- .. wow, I am speechless. I know they're trying to make the game realistic and have some dark elements in it- but rape? ... My god no, why of all things. Never has a game (to my knowledge) has successfully impacted us with rape and making it work with the main or side character. All it does is just throws things off, or makes us disgusted. Remember when Duke Nukem: Forever tried to stun us with the aliens raping women? .. That wasn't close to being meaningful, it was utterly wrong and sickening. SO yeah I ... uh.. *shakes head*

I've dealt with rape in real life, friends I cared about and even a girl I dated was raped. It didn't help them mature not one bit. It traumatized them and made it hard for them to ever get into dating or even being themselves again. Gosh, sorry for the ranting but rape? Really... don't do this to us, I already played 2 games trying to shove rape in our faces and make us admire the plot more but it only screws everything up. Probably won't even get this game and yeah- I know the article said the bad guys will 'try' to rape her but still.. come on.

So rape is something we can never talk about or portray in media? I'm sure that's going to do a fat lot of good for society. I can understand you getting upset about a game like Duke Nukem handling rape, but that's Duke Nukem. They're not doing it to express a point, they're doing it to be crass. Nothing from what I have read gives any real evidence that this is going to be done in a way that is distasteful. Perhaps you should reserve judgement until the game actually comes out.

Personally, I think if handled well it could be an important story element. Our society never talks about rape and for most men, rape is something we never really have to think about or be afraid of. It's not like that for women. It's a very real danger and we're so damn afraid of it that we marginalize it. I think that's the real despicable thing: To be so afraid of rape that we can't talk about it like adults and say "This is evil and needs to be stopped and here is why."

 

[Smeatza]

I've only played one Tomb Raider game, Angel of Darkness.
I will never buy one again.

This breaks my heart. You got the only bad one of the bunch (OK, "Chronicles" was less than stellar, but nowhere near the abysmal pit of abysmality that is "Angel of Darkness"). You should go to gog.com and get the three-pack. It has the original, the second (most popular) one, and the third (best of the series) one for ten bucks.

I'm actually penning a review of the first one right now (I finished it yesterday).

To be honest I do have a hand-me-down Tomb Raider 2 sat on my shelf that I've never played. And I did recently set up my PS2 again......

 

[Voulan]

Seriously though, Lara does fight back. And she never just gives up, but keeps going. The story isn't so much about how she becomes strong, but about how her strength develops even further. Your true character comes out in a desperate situation, and Lara sure seems to have elements of her original strong self there. The reveal trailer is testament to that - how many people would willingly throw themselves over a huge gap to reach the other side?

what im garnering from everyone is that she is... raped? thats kind of a sick attempt to get us to feel sorry. could anyone link me to an article that says this?

She isn't raped, in fact, it barely gets close. The hype surrounding the issue is the fact that she is a female character placed in a vulnerable situation, and the article links a brief moment of suggested danger and over blows it to show how poor females in gaming are represented that her changing moment is based on sexuality. Bear in mind, before you form an opinion on this, that the scene shows no sexual act at all, and ends with Lara kneeing him, biting his ear off and then shooting him. This is literally only a few seconds, and only one of Lara's defining moments. The article wants us to base the whole game on this one moment, near the beginning of the game, and forgets that Lara gets progressively stronger throughout the game and then ends up completely badass.

EDIT: Also, this is the only suggested reference to rape in the whole game. It never occurs again. As the said in their statement, rape and sexuality is not a theme of the game. No one else attempts anything.

 

[Vault101]

Am I just overreacting? Or is it a valid point? What do you all think?

I am a female

and I like this new direction

why?

because to feel attatched to a charachter we have to relate to their struggles and triumphs, in thsi case lara croft is going through some serious shit

shes not "waif fu"ing her way through bad guys with her large breats showing...shes struglling

its compelling

your over thinking this, the issues surrounding women can be flame bait because there are so many veiws but its fucking stupid, you can't get hung up on every little thing because then NOTHING gets accomplished

its not just mysogany but people who are too easyly offended due to THEIR SPECIFIC veiws, its two sides of the coin

 

[Vault101]

snip.

its not rape

the guy gets touchy feely for a couple of second but she escapses...no one is raped,

in that situation thats a possability,

like those guy s calling cat woman a ***** in Arkham city...they are criminals, I wouldbt surprised if they said MUCH worse things than that

 

[Sylveria]

Am I getting it right that pointing out any feminine feature of a woman is sexist now to someone?

Lara was criticised about having large breasts and now people are calling it sexist to remove what was called an over sexualised character trait.

Why not give every character ever (male, female, whatever) massive tits. You can't complain if everyone has a huge pair of jubblies.

Obligatory

They Other M'd her. Apparently developers have decided our 'strong female leads' had to start off as simpering, abused cowards who needed to be protected and directed by big strong men till they got their action-legs. I'm terrified of what'll happen if they make a Half-life prequel about Alex.

Also, reading comments, boy it concerns me that no one cared about Laura until she was shown as weak and vulnerable.

 

[Elamdri]

"And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her. "She is literally turned into a cornered animal," Rosenberg said. "It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die."

Right. I suppose my first impression [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.377759-My-thoughts-of-Tomb-Raider-Crossroads#14747377] was an accurate impression. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.377759-My-thoughts-of-Tomb-Raider-Crossroads?page=2#14748323]

Passing on this with a vengeance. I'm not interested in seeing one of the few truly empowered heroines in gaming be put through a traumatizing trial of fire in some deluded attempt to legitimize her.

There's nothing terribly "empowering" about the original Lara. You make this game sound like it's going to be hours of torture porn. Did it occur to you that perhaps they're highlighting some of the most suspenseful parts in the trailer to build interest? The entire game is not going to be hours and hours of Lara beaten within an inch of her life.

This is a different type of story than the other Tomb Raiders, and I think people are just going to have to realize that. In this game Lara is not going to start out being a badass. AND THAT'S FINE. Look at some of the screens. It's clear that eventually she's going to be the hero that you want her to be. But without showing her at her weakest at the beginning, you aren't going to be able to see how strong she is at the end of the game. It's a very simple story mechanic. If she started the game out as a take-no prisoners, hardcore ***** with an attitude, then there would be nowhere for her to grow.

 

[lacktheknack]

I've only played one Tomb Raider game, Angel of Darkness.
I will never buy one again.

This breaks my heart. You got the only bad one of the bunch (OK, "Chronicles" was less than stellar, but nowhere near the abysmal pit of abysmality that is "Angel of Darkness"). You should go to gog.com and get the three-pack. It has the original, the second (most popular) one, and the third (best of the series) one for ten bucks.

I'm actually penning a review of the first one right now (I finished it yesterday).

To be honest I do have a hand-me-down Tomb Raider 2 sat on my shelf that I've never played. And I did recently set up my PS2 again......

Go try it. It's considered to be the "best" of the series (although I prefer 3 myself).

 

[Elamdri]

Am I getting it right that pointing out any feminine feature of a woman is sexist now to someone?

Lara was criticised about having large breasts and now people are calling it sexist to remove what was called an over sexualised character trait.

Why not give every character ever (male, female, whatever) massive tits. You can't complain if everyone has a huge pair of jubblies.

Obligatory

They Other M'd her. Apparently developers have decided our 'strong female leads' had to start off as simpering, abused cowards who needed to be protected and directed by big strong men till they got their action-legs. I'm terrified of what'll happen if they make a Half-life prequel about Alex.

No, they didn't "Other M" her. For starters: This isn't about her being protected by a bunch of big, burly space marines. She's pretty much on her own. What they mean by "protect her" is "keep her alive". You the player are going to have to provide her survival skills.

Also, unlike "Other M" this is a reboot. There is a difference between saying "Samus should not have gone catatonic during that fight" and saying "Lara shouldn't be helpless" because while Samus has an established backstory during Other M, in this new Tomb Raider, Lara's backstory has been Retconned. So at the start she isn't a hero, she's just a normal person in a bad situation and the character looks to be behaving pretty normally under those circumstances.

 

[Vault101]

snip.

its NOT sexualisation

all it is, is an "implication" for two seconds...no rape happens

and it MAKES PERFECT SENSE IN CONTEXT AND THE TONE OF THE STORY

I hate to use caps...but god

But I do agree with you. I feel like this whole thing is a step backwards. Laura was an awesome badass that didn't need a reason to go adventuring, so what if she also had huge boobs and a great ass? I feel like some people just want to create problems where there really aren't any.

charahcters can be badas..but to connect with them it helps to feel their struggles

being a sex object is not the same as a badass...and its annoying then they have zero flaws and the personality of a stick

 

[Vault101]

They Other M'd her. Apparently developers have decided our 'strong female leads' had to start off as simpering, abused cowards who needed to be protected and directed by big strong men till they got their action-legs. I'm terrified of what'll happen if they make a Half-life prequel about Alex.

Also, reading comments, boy it concerns me that no one cared about Laura until she was shown as weak and vulnerable.

havign a female charachter with her only notable trait being her breats who goes through baddies without a scratch isnt any better

this isnt the same...its clear this is her origin story, about her path to becoming the badass we know she is

and shes gonna get a few cuts and bruises along the way

 

[Tanis]

You see this guy:

Gatts
Complete badass
Raped as a child

Sure, it's from a work of fiction, but a good writer can use ANYTHING to improve/expand/explain a character.

Any implied/actual 'bad stuff' can be used to further a story/character positively as long as the writer(s) are good at what they do.

 

[RN7]

I'm not buying it because it's uncharted: mammory edition. If I want to play Uncharted, I'm not going to play the new tomb raider. I don't see any real difference here between the two games. It's like choosing between a bunch of modern-warfare shooters. They may have different stories and available tools, but it will all boil down to shooting guys. There's not enough variation or innovation to make me want to play this game.

The fact that they turned one of gaming's stronger female protagonists into a pathetic wimp that has to be broken down and fucked over to become a badass again is just icing on the cake.

 

[Voulan]

Even so, I fear they're not showing everything on the trailer. You didn't expect rape in Duke Nukem: Forever .. no one could had actually. But it's there, and it's not even a shock factor to motivate us playing it's just disgusting overall. And yeah, if she gets away from the rape good- but I heard some talk that she uses the moment of being raped to escape the bad guy. I hope that isn't true, I really hope not....

She gets away from the rape. Lara automatically fights back in the scene, and the guy gets angry instead of aroused and attempts to kill her. If you fail the scene, she gets killed, not raped. Seriously, rape doesn't even come into the game other than this small, implied danger interaction.

Besides, Crystal Dynamics released a statement about that, so it's definitely not a factor for her progression. It's not the rape, but her having to hurt and kill another human that is the focus of the scene. Honestly, the article takes the scene completely out of context.

I'm not buying it because it's uncharted: mammory edition. If I want to play Uncharted, I'm not going to play the new tomb raider. I don't see any real difference here between the two games. It's like choosing between a bunch of modern-warfare shooters. They may have different stories and available tools, but it will all boil down to shooting guys. There's not enough variation or innovation to make me want to play this game.

Having played both series, you couldn't be more wrong. They're both fantastic, and their stories go in completely different directions. Just because the core concept (exploring tombs) is the same, it doesn't make the games similar in the same respect. But to each their own, I won't start another Uncharted Vs. Tomb Raider debate. Don't buy it if you won't.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

This, thank you.

I have to constantly explain to writers and roleplayers that rape NEVER helps. It BREAKS characters, and in the event it "strengthens" them, it happens decades after the fact at which point it doesn't merit mentioning.
Which means, the only time rape as a backstory works is when it's never mentioned.

EDIT:

To be honest, rape is a huge issue with me. I've dealt with it, and to see producers use it to make Tomb Raider 'stronger' is just ... wrong overall. Rape as I stated- does not make people stronger and hardcore. It utterly crushes them, weakens their stability in thinking and causes a lot of social problems if not self harm. And trust me, I have seen people talk about rape and it usually ends up with people saying:

"So killing people is fine in games? Why is rape so bad when you're killing people?"

Just because killing people isn't good, doesn't mean we should include another bad element like rape in it. Two wrongs don't make a right after all, plus trying to justify rape usually doesn't look right on that person's end unless he/she explains the reality of it rather then what is worse between killing and rape. And yeah I should wait for the game to come out, but certain things do put people off especially if they've had to face such things in real life. And just to bring it back up- they can possibly pull off the rape but I feel like they're just forcing it there to make the game darker, like we're supposed to appreciate what Tomb Raider goes through. Ugh.

Lara isn't a human, she's a hero. I don't get why people don't understand this. Heroes are not realistic in any which way. This formula stems from a time when hero literally meant you were semi-divine because a God had sex with your mother. By no means does a hero using the heroic formula - like Lara Croft - get bogged down by realism.

I'll try and give an example:

So there's this franchise called Warhammer 40,000. Within it are these guys called the Space Marines who are literally the paragons and saviours of humanity. Everything about them is super human from their physique to their ability to survive almost anything because of extra organs to chewing through metal because they can secrete acid from their teeth. Their normal day is saving humanity from utter destruction from every horror the galaxy can throw at them from elitist elves to death robots to literal demons from another dimension. All in all, very super human, very much heroes following the heroic formula.

Within the same universe is a guy called Commissar Ibram Gaunt. Supposedly he's a regular guy who went to a combat school to learn how to inspire the soldiers underneath him and fight like an expert. You know what Gaunt does on a regular day? Pretty much everything a Space Marine does. While his adventures are narrowed to only fighting said extra-dimensional demons, he often times finds himself in similar scenarios. It's gotten so far that he's even fought a traitor Space Marine toe-to-toe and was holding his own - the Space Marine supposedly being able to crush a normal human like a human would crush an ant.

But that's the great thing about fictitious heroes: they aren't normal. Things that would break us make them stronger. It tempers them into the badasses we know and love instead of having them be crippled emotionally and having to go through a ten year rehab phase before being moderately more self-confident. This applies just as much to men as it does to women. Bringing this back to Lara, rape is one of the things that will help temper her into the hero she becomes and will most likely be the breaking point - if I know my story progression - as there really isn't a higher step in a person's mind as to what could cause her to finally shove life back after it kicks her to the ground X amount of times. While it's nice to go "well, if this were actually realistic...", we all know this isn't realistic, but rather the tale of a hero coming to be a hero using a specific formula started over three and a half thousand years ago. She's supposed to be better than us, else the story wouldn't be interesting and overcoming something with such ease that it's literally impossible is just that formula coming to bear.

 

[Zydrate]

The problem with your stance is that this whole design seems to be based around making her realistic.
You make some fair points, but I disagree for this very simple matter.