What about the queer female gamers?

[Sovvolf]

Small question hear Ryuutchi, is there any answer your willing to except, I've read up to page 3 and I may need to read further but you just don't seem to accept any answer. I would try to give you an answer but from reading your post you've given me the impression that because I'm straight and mainly because I'm male, that you wont accept and answer from me or any one else in the same circumstance... now I'm not going to bother writing down an answer until I know that your not going to debunk the answer for mentioned circumstances, you seem to just be a man hater... prove me wrong.

Hell, I could bend over backwards to try and "prove" to you that I'm not a man-hater, merely irritated by ignorance, and if I said something you disagreed with that could be construed as "insulting men" (insofar as "insulting men" can cause any real harm in the context of a community that privileges men and decries female experiences) you'd blow me off as a "man-hater"
.
I respect men. However, men's experiences are, on the whole, still given primacy-- as they were in this particular issue of The Escapist. If that statement of fact, which is at the basis of everything I've said this entire thread, is man-hating, then I suppose a man-hater I'll be.

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

 

[Therumancer]

While I won't say it's never happened, I can't think of many examples outside of fantasy (oftentimes directed at men) where lesbians have attacked and raped children especially in the pre-sexual age groups.

Yet when it comes to gay men, the same cannot be said. When you hear about gay sexual assault it's inevitably involving men,

Is that because they are gay, or because they are men? I mean, when you hear about human sexual assault it's inevitably involving men. Occam's Razor and all, the simpler explanation seems to be about sex/gender and not sexual orientation.

and despite Lesbianism having been prevelent you'll notice that back in say ancient Greece you didn't have young girls being run down and captured as homosexual sex slaves the same way you had it going on with boys. This is incidently where the term "Greeking" comes from (though it doesn't nessicarly have a pedophille connotation).

Were young girls being run down and captured as heterosexual sex slaves? If so, again--the explanation is that they were male, not that they were gay.

Only to you Cheeze, you can argue semantics either way. The bottom line is that your pro-gay, I'm not. There really isn't any point to us argueing about it anymore over the internet.


All we're going to do is retread old territory and accomplish nothing while generating hundreds of responses.

 

[Sovvolf]

(insofar as "insulting men" can cause any real harm in the context of a community that privileges men and decries female experiences)

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

"Sexist" doesn't mean being so politically correct we ignore reality, which is the definition you seem to have.

In fact, your zeal for political correctness seems to have caused you to read "insofar as "insulting men" can cause any real harm" as "there's no harm in insulting men". You've confused someone saying that insulting men causes less harm and leaving the issue of just how much open with someone saying there's no harm possible.

I'm not insulted I'm trying to prove a point. That sentence was probably not intended to insult any one like not including Female Homosexuals wasn't intentionally set there to offend female homosexual, though it seems to be have interpreted as that through looking too deep into it, just like looking at that sentence and stretching it can be interpreted as an insult if I looked at it with a mind that is dead set on finding the insult. This is what I see this has, looking way too far into something harmless and twisting it until it seems harmful. Again not including female homosexuals wasn't done to insult any one and was more than likely an oversight.

 

[ryuutchi]

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

Context: you're bad at it.

Insofar as men can be insulted in a lasting, harmful way in the context of a community that privileges men's experiences over women's. To quote Cheeze_Pavilion: "It's sort of like hating someone for being rich." Sure, I can make fun of you for it, but in the end, you've still got the power and I still don't.

Guess that makes me a man-hater. Strangely, I'm okay with that. (Or I could go with the cliche: "But some of my best friends are men!")

 

[Sovvolf]

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

Context: you're bad at it.

Insofar as men can be insulted in a lasting, harmful way in the context of a community that privileges men's experiences over women's. To quote Cheeze_Pavilion: "It's sort of like hating someone for being rich." Sure, I can make fun of you for it, but in the end, you've still got the power and I still don't.

Guess that makes me a man-hater. Strangely, I'm okay with that. (Or I could go with the cliche: "But some of my best friends are men!")

I'm acting extreme to prove a point read my reply to Cheeze... I wasn't insulted by it.

 

[Alex_P]

All we're going to do is retread old territory and accomplish nothing while generating hundreds of responses.

If you're going to post the same "gay men are rapists" thing every time homosexuality comes up, the least he can do is post the exact same response every time. Y'know, for balance.

-- Alex

 

[Sovvolf]

(insofar as "insulting men" can cause any real harm in the context of a community that privileges men and decries female experiences)

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

"Sexist" doesn't mean being so politically correct we ignore reality, which is the definition you seem to have.

In fact, your zeal for political correctness seems to have caused you to read "insofar as "insulting men" can cause any real harm" as "there's no harm in insulting men". You've confused someone saying that insulting men causes less harm and leaving the issue of just how much open with someone saying there's no harm possible.

I'm not insulted I'm trying to prove a point. That sentence was probably not intended to insult any one like not including Female Homosexuals wasn't intentionally set there to offend female homosexual, though it seems to be have interpreted as that through looking too deep into it.

Yeah, but that's not looking too deep, that's mischaracterizing what was said.

Also...what's the point, really?

I guess I only saw the point, it was a failed attempt at putting Ryu on the other side. To see some one take what there doing out of context and act rashly because of it, which is what I think Ryu's as done here taken what the escapist has done and taken it out of context.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

OOOO OOOO i liked Saving Private Ryan too...

O.T. As he said, i don't really see whats to discuss, as with all the other gay gamer threads.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I'll give the same answer as I do to every girl gamer who starts a "there are girl gamers!!" threads every once in a while, get over it.

How do you get:

You're not special, you're not some kind of special minority that needs to be coddled and looked after like a 2 year old who's constantly puking and shitting everywhere, you're grown men/women who should be able to man/woman the fuck up and brush a small insult off your shoulder and continue with your life.

out of: "there are girl gamers!!"?

People are going to get in your face and be ignorant, it's a fact of life, you may not like it but hey I don't like it when I'm out in a hoody trying to keep warm but everyone gives me a wide berth because they think I'm going to mug them when I'm perhaps the nicest, respectful and likeable black guy I(and others)could know, I allow them to live in their ignorant shells, you should do the same and let it be and just play games and be happy, not going "whaaaaaaaa!!!" everytime someone doesn't give you attention and coverage or doesn't feel to include you in some way.

Why do people behave as if every act of acknowledging an issue is "whaaaaaaaa!!!"?

The simple fact that I say to everyone who complains about insults over Live and the Internet is that if you can't handle them on the Internet where you don't know the person, the person doesn't know you and they call you something which you can't take then you might as well hang yourself with the Xbox controller cord now because there are far worse people in real life that you will meet who will seek to destroy your career, to make your life hell and not give a shit and you won't be able to stand up for yourself because you're too busy complaining over something which in the grand scheme of things is insignificant. Leave the assholes to their own devices and focus on you.

Really? You honestly believe that people who complain about insults over Live (1) can't handle them as opposed to not wanting to handle them, and (2) they will be too busy complaining about Live to stop someone from destroying their career?

That's your honest opinion as opposed to YOUR complaint about these people? Isn't a bit hypocritical to get all worked up like this over what people say on the internet, when what they are saying is them getting worked up over what people say on the internet? According to your logic, won't complaining about people on The Escapist Forums leave you too busy to defend your career the same way those who complain about people on Xbox Live?

As someone has already said before me, only you Cheeze would plead semantics on this issue.
I can be semantic and pedantic when I want to be but even I know when to just take things at face value and not be so much of a dick in the process of pleading said semantics.

You always get a girl gamer at times who wants to be treated with respect and wants people to be aware that there are girl gamers too, no shit sherlock. That's what's annoying. Pretty muuh same thing here, OP wants some kind of recognition for the article not highlighting lesbian gamers, is it so hard to believe that there are in fact lesbian gamers? Or maybe we(and the majority of people who have a brain)don't give a shit cause we're too busy playing the game and beating you, whether you're lesbian, gay, black, white, green, orange, purple, somalian, jamaican, bajan, african, polish, lithuanian means fuck all, you're another gamer on the other side of the earth eating lead from my M16/Assault Rifle/*insert weapon of choice here*. Grow a frigging backbone.

1. I don't have a career, it was an example.
2. I have nothing to worry about because I don't let people push me around. Coming on here(as well with the girl gamers)and pleading your "case" won't solve anything, you might as well go bang your head against a fucking wall for all the good it will do you. But the difference between me and those people is that I deal with my problems, I let the ones go which aren't worth it and I deal with the ones that I can, that get in my way and impede my progress in my life, I'm not a doormat that you can just walk over, I used to be and it gets you nowhere. Don't confuse "doing something about it" with what the OP is doing now(the aforementioned "whaaaaaaaa!!!ing")which will solve nothing, this is one of those things that you ignore, you move on, you live a happy life playing video games, what you don't do is complain to people who don't give a toss because they have better things to worry and care about.

 

[Aqualung]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

OOOO OOOO i liked Saving Private Ryan too...

O.T. As he said, i don't really see whats to discuss, as with all the other gay gamer threads.

I'm a she, funnily enough. But I understand. Everyone here just assumes.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

As you said:

What about the gay women?

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You want people to discuss homosexual women? ...Alright, what's to discuss? That you play games, too? So does everyone else, gay, straight, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, martian, those with brown hair, those with green eyes, ones who like Saving Private Ryan and ones who found Scary Movie to be funny.

Should we start making threads for them too?

I think you missed the point. Possibly you should check the front page of this website, where the articles for this month's issue are posted? The theme this month is about gays-- but only gay men, and I found that interesting and telling.

I think that, yes, making "threads" or discussing the issues of non-white, heterosexual men within the gaming community and games in general would be quite productive. Especially if the articles were as interesting and incisive as The Escapist's official articles usually are.

To be fair you could almost find it offensive that people aren't homophobic towards you even though they are against gay men, as if gay women are just accepted, even revered, because men find them attractive.
So it's as if, you become represented by pornstars and associated with being objects of male attention, rather than a unique group of people.
Still at least no one ties you to a fence and beats you to death for being a lesbian.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Well thank you for answering my question when you re-read your comment you may realise what you've said that is sexist. I'll give you a clue it's the part were you say that there's no harm in insulting men, I'll let get back on to your paranoid rant .

Context: you're bad at it.

Insofar as men can be insulted in a lasting, harmful way in the context of a community that privileges men's experiences over women's. To quote Cheeze_Pavilion: "It's sort of like hating someone for being rich." Sure, I can make fun of you for it, but in the end, you've still got the power and I still don't.

Guess that makes me a man-hater. Strangely, I'm okay with that. (Or I could go with the cliche: "But some of my best friends are men!")

Wait, so you hate men for being the dominant members of society? Even though that's basically just a bi product of evolution? Wow, you really shouldn't be okay with being a man-hater, as if you wouldn't get completely pissed off if someone told you they were a women hater, I'm tempted to report this to be honest.

 

[henrebotha]

First of all, i'm as strait as an arrow, so maybe i just don't get it. However, most of the time, they are insults used in a generic non-targeted way. Not because of hate toward gays or women. I get called a cracker, a ******, a beaner, a nazi, a jew, a pollock, a queer, a *****, a ****, a pussy, a fag/******, a dick, a jackass, a piece of shit, and i've even been called a newt(yes for real, a newt). 98% of the time they are just colloquial insults, not directed at any of those things in particular. People just learned that they were insults.

I don't let any of them get to me in any way. And yes, some of them do pertain to me. I say, grow some skin and realize that everybody has words or phrases about them used as an insult. Get over it. Be okay with who you are.

Instead of feeling hurt or put down when somebody says "get back in the kitchen", just say right back "why? cant feed yourself?". Every insult has a retort. Every insult can be folded back on the insulter. Thats the way the world works, get used to being somebody that somebody else hates for no reason. We're all in that boat.

I don't have the patience to read through the entire thread and respond to more pressing matters, but I felt I needed to point out a flaw in your reasoning: "Get over it" and "Be okay with who you are" is a tall order when all of society is pressuring gays (among others) to not be okay with it and to change who they are.

 

[lizards]

Not sure what to say here, as I'm relatively pissed at one aspect of this week article. Homosexuality in the gaming world seems to be a more touchy subject than race or non-whiteys as they are depicted in gaming. So, now that someone decided to bring gender to the table, let's dissect it this way, your favorite female lead, who was it? Lara Croft? Did she have any romance plot in her little adventures with a handsome male? Maybe she is gay. Who else? Give me names! Jade from Beyond good and evil? Maybe she is GAY. My character [xxxxxxxxx][xxxxxxxxxxx] from Warhammer Online is gay, she is into equally unattractive female avatars who are also gay.

It's not so much about gay women being misrepresented, the articles were about homosexuality or lack-of gay protagonists. I don't see why one gender should get more attention that the other. But let's face it, homosexual males have it "harder". It's ok when Liara is making out with Missus Shephard, but it's not if Mr. Shephard tries to make out with Aidan.

In a male dominated industry, we seem more welcome to having lesbians around than gays. So yeah, in this case, Gay Males are the one who really need the attention of the community in a sense, although personally, I don't care about the sexuality of my characters as long as Master Chief doesn't start to make bad attempts at flirtation with Johnson while I'm trying to fight one of those dooods with hammers. Damn, I like those doods with hammers. HAMMMERS!

well ya those guys who protest gay rights go home to jerk to lesbians and praise god

what would they do if lesbians were gone?

I am all for gay rights.
I am atheist.

Read my first paragraph carefully, at least, trying reading it more carefully than Rhuk did.
I asked whether the sexuality of Female Leads and Protagonists were put into question?

Was Jade gay, or straight?
Was Lara Croft gay, or straight?

My point still stand, Male Homosexuals are the one that are misrepresented. I don't think homosexuality, or sexuality of video game protagonists matters when the objective is to fight evil, and teabag your opponents.

my turn: read my post carefully

that was a shot against people who protest against gays but strangly not lesbians

i support gay rights but its amazing that people can be so 2 faced