What did you think of Man of Steel?

[generals3]

I'm Iron Man.
I'm Kevin Costner.
I'm Kevin Costner's son.
The website I write for gets press clearance.

And for a while i was hoping to be active on the same forum as Iron Man... Way to crush my dreams

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm Iron Man.
I'm Kevin Costner.
I'm Kevin Costner's son.
The website I write for gets press clearance.

And for a while i was hoping to be active on the same forum as Iron Man... Way to crush my dreams

If it makes you feel any better nothing's to say Iron Man isn't lurking around The Escapist posing as a brony

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Oh boy, and now Matt Zoller Seitz of www.rogerebert.com isn't afraid to cite SEXISM! in his Man of Steel review: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/man-of-steel-2013

He makes a fair point. I wonder what everybody else thinks on this, since it's such a hot button in The Escapist lately.

"The most striking and curious aspect of "Man of Steel" is the way it minimizes and even shuts out women. Lois is an important character, but only for how she furthers Clark/Superman's attempts to understand himself and claim his destiny; she's ultimately much less of a fully-realized, freestanding human being than the kooky, narcissistic Lois Lane played by Margot Kidder in the Reeve films, or even Kate Bosworth's Lois in "Superman Returns," a melancholy figure defined by her capacity to move on after the hero's abrupt departure from Earth. Adams' Lois is tough and smart but has no personality, only drive, and she's not as integral to the action as she seems to be on first glance; it's telling that this film gives equal or greater weight to the story of an understandably distrustful general (Chris Meloni) whose relationship with Superman lets him become the stand-in for a doubting Earth, a role filled by Lois in the 1978 film. "Man of Steel" is driven almost entirely by machismo. Ma Kent is endearing, but she's simply not as powerful a presence in the story as the doomed Jonathan, and Jor-El's birth mother vanishes from the picture after the prologue, her absence explained in a throwaway line that Crowe seems embarrassed to have to deliver. The uncharitable might notice than when a stupid question has to be asked, or a trivial remark made, it's often delivered by one of a handful of women in a room full of burly guys; they may also note that while every significant male figure in "Man of Steel" is given an option to be physically brave under horrible circumstances -- even grey-haired Pa Kent and Perry White have their moments -- females exist, for the most part, to be saved, or to have things explained to them."

 

[Sixcess]

"Man of Steel" is driven almost entirely by machismo.

With Nolan's involvement I'm not remotely surprised. The Dark Knight is probably the most obvious example of his rather iffy attitude to women, seeing as it was a total boys club - Batman, Joker, Dent, Gordon, Alfred, even the mobsters. The sole female character existed only to be argued over, placed in danger, then killed - and even her death only mattered in how the men reacted to it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

What if Superman didn't look like a human? General Zod was right throughout this movie, the only reason Superman didn't listen to him was because they happen to look like humans.

The movie could've developed better Superman's "love" for humanity. His devotion comes up when he stands-off Zod, obviously, but where is it coming from, and what makes mankind better to kriptonians in Kal's eyes? What's so different, anyway?

 

[80sboy]

Honestly, my problem with the movie was its origin story was a bit too paint my numbers, followed by bits where they went a little too far matched with the first story - yet trying to outdo it.

It's a story we already know; Superman is space Moses and we can accept that. We know he comes to earth, grows up in a farm, eventually has to come to turns with his powers and when to use them. We know all this stuff, and so did the filmmakers, and it felt like they wanted to rush through all that just to get to the fight with the Kryptonians. This is the problem with doing an origin story over and over again, it loses its flavor when the film developers don't know how to invigorate it and make it feel new again.

The Man of Steel is basically a polished updated version of Superman 1 and 2 without the heart, and I'm not suggesting the movie needed to be as whimsical and silly as those two were (be damned if they put Lex Luther in this with a wig on screaming "Teschmacher" to a ditsy damn with a major case of the gazongas). Remember that part where I said how the filmmakers went too far trying to outdo the first movie? Well the tornado scene is that part. I mean, if Clark's father's death is a major arch in the development of the protagonist's character, you need to treat it well. The first move from the 70s handled that with care; this movie tried to go with a freakin money shot of all things, as Kent Senior gets eaten by a tornado. You need a scene like that grounded in reality so it can resonate more naturally, what they did was turn that scene into the movie Twister.

...and that was just bad...really took me out of the movie.

Anyways.

As for the whole eugenics thing, it seemed tacked on and more apart of General Zod's story-arch - which come to think of it - was more interesting than Clark Kent's story. Honestly, this movie was more about General Zod than it was about Batman Superman.

 

[x0ny]

Chris Nolan turns anything he touches into gold, that's the only reason I'm checking it out this monday, I never liked superman. I saw a few episodes of the TV series back in.... '95? The one with Teri Hatcher as Lois. Didn't see the appeal.

 

[Mr. Omega]

I got back not too long ago, I'll post my own thoughts:

Spoiler: Best Scene

The Smallville/Kansas fight. Did an excellent job showing just how much stronger, faster and tougher the Kryptonians were to everyone else, and the way the speed and strength was used felt natural. A very brief clash between Supes and Zod, the colonel got a little moment and at the end, everyone knew Superman was a hero through his actions during the fight, not just because.

Spoiler: Worst Scene

The tornado. It just keeps bugging me that Pa Kent died going back to save the dog. I get the whole "I'll die for you to keep your secret" thing, but just to save the dog? Add to the whole thing that "the last thing I said to my father was 'you aren't my real dad'". It almost seemed like a parody of dramatic cliches.

Spoiler: Detail That I Liked

I liked how Zod and his crew weren't quite as powerful as Superman at first because they were wearing armor, blocking the sun's radiation. Made even better when Zod is exposed to yellow sunlight and it overloads his senses. What's more, it makes the final battle between Zod and Superman feel like a climactic battle of titans. Superman has had some experience fighting and faced great odds with the world engine, and Zod has control of the superhuman powers. The two are almost equals, but Zod has the warrior training, meaning Supes is still the underdog.

Spoiler: Detail That I Didn't Like

It just really bugged me how the film focused so damn much on the civilian death and all the destruction. Like, there's showing tragedy and loss and then there's joyfully wallowing in the misery and suffering of nameless shmucks. Just seemed a tad excessive to me, that's all.

I liked it. It had some very notable flaws but it was still enjoyable.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I got back not too long ago, I'll post my own thoughts:

Spoiler: Worst Scene

The tornado. It just keeps bugging me that Pa Kent died going back to save the dog. I get the whole "I'll die for you to keep your secret" thing, but just to save the dog? Add to the whole thing that "the last thing I said to my father was 'you aren't my real dad'". It almost seemed like a parody of dramatic cliches.

That was the worst kind of scene. Filmmakers trying too hard, I call it.
I just started wondering though...

Spoiler

Was Kent Sr. supposed to know that it was a dog trapped in the car, or did he only find out when he reached the car? Because I think a woman simply says "Timmy's trapped inside" or whatever its name was. Did Kent Sr. go thinking that there was a child inside, or did he know it was a dog all along? This just occurred to me. While I was watching the movie it seemed clear he was putting his life on the line for a dog. But thinking about it later on maybe my memory tricks me into thinking, "the movie can't have been that idiotic".

 

[Kolby Jack]

I got back not too long ago, I'll post my own thoughts:

Spoiler: Worst Scene

The tornado. It just keeps bugging me that Pa Kent died going back to save the dog. I get the whole "I'll die for you to keep your secret" thing, but just to save the dog? Add to the whole thing that "the last thing I said to my father was 'you aren't my real dad'". It almost seemed like a parody of dramatic cliches.

That was the worst kind of scene. Filmmakers trying too hard, I call it.
I just started wondering though...

Spoiler

Was Kent Sr. supposed to know that it was a dog trapped in the car, or did he only find out when he reached the car? Because I think a woman simply says "Timmy's trapped inside" or whatever its name was. Did Kent Sr. go thinking that there was a child inside, or did he know it was a dog all along? This just occurred to me. While I was watching the movie it seemed clear he was putting his life on the line for a dog. But thinking about it later on maybe my memory tricks me into thinking, "the movie can't have been that idiotic".

I think it was Martha Kent who said their dog was still trapped. She may have just figured Clark would save it, since he'd be in little danger doing so, but I dunno. I kind of agree about Jon Kent being dumb, but at the same time, it didn't seem out of character to me. They clearly established that he valued his son's life and the stability of the world over the lives a few people, even his own. Not the best scene, but I didn't cringe at it.

It seems to me that most of the elements people have issues with stemmed from this having to have been an origin story. I think the inevitable sequel will probably get a much wider positive response. But I still loved this movie.

 

[Galletea]

It was too long, too action-set-piece heavy and ultimately left me bored. I was very disappointed. Lois Lane appeared and was annoying and stupid. Henry Cavill was decent enough and Russel Crowe was pretty good, but the pacing was wrong and none of the characters really got a chance to shine.

Oh boy, and now Matt Zoller Seitz of www.rogerebert.com isn't afraid to cite SEXISM! in his Man of Steel review: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/man-of-steel-2013

He makes a fair point. I wonder what everybody else thinks on this, since it's such a hot button in The Escapist lately.

Really? Sexism? Are we forgetting the insanely strong woman that came with Zod? Lois Lane had about as much personality as everyone else in that film and his mothers were as strong as you could expect a woman faced with angry superhumans to be. The women in the film were not weak, and they weren't the only ones that got rescued. There are plenty of films to shout sexism at, I don't think this was one of them.

It is just a stupid argument. He can't really say that the lack of women being strong was the thing that really struck him. I don't believe that for a second.

 

[O maestre]

it was terrible, i felt like i was watching transformers all over again, a lot of special effects without any context what so ever. seriously it was awful. The story was similar to earth one superman, which was passable as a comic. Every single character in the movie was designed badly and did not mirror their comic counterparts at all. These things are not the greatest problem but rather that the creators opted to make a movie about Superemo vs The explosions and the lens flares. I was stunned at how badly this was pulled off. The 3D did not even kick in until the very last fight, speaking of which, I have never seen a movie with so many "last stands" and "final fights". Fuck me i still cannot believe that the old 80's movies are the only Superman movies to get it right. However I must be out of touch, because the crowd swallowed it up, cheering and laughter at the most painfully forced humor scenes, was enough for me to wish swift death or at least castration to them all. It was as if only me and my brother along with our respective girlfriends were disappointing with the movie. Sigh, my poor brother, he has been a superman fan for ages and was absolutely crushed after the movie.
I could go on for ever about how disappointing the movie was, the only twist was that the mcguffin had been changed from an object into a person.

 

[O maestre]

Chris Nolan turns anything he touches into gold, that's the only reason I'm checking it out this monday, I never liked superman. I saw a few episodes of the TV series back in.... '95? The one with Teri Hatcher as Lois. Didn't see the appeal.

I feel bad for you mn, i am not going to spoil anything but this is not anything but fools gold, besides Nolan didn't have a creative hand beyond being a producer aby selecting the crew.

 

[Anachronism]

I thought it was pretty great. It didn't have the depth of character of the Nolan Batman films or the sense of humour of the Avengers-verse films, but that didn't really bother me. I know the lack of levity bothered a lot of people, but I think this is a good tone to go for if it is leading into a Justice League movie. We already have a universe of light-hearted, wisecracking heroes, and JLA needs to do something different to justify its existence.

But to be frank, the main thing I was excited about for Man of Steel was seeing what they could do with a modern, $200 million Superman movie. I was expecting ridiculous, massive superpowered fight scenes, and they went above and beyond with this film. It's probably the biggest, explosion-iest, most spectacular superhero film ever; the final battle is even bigger than the one in the Avengers. A little more character work would have helped with the fights, giving us a stronger sense of who these people are and why they're fighting, but there was enough context for me to understand both Supes' and Zod's causes. Seriously, everything from the battle of Smallville to the final showdown between Superman and Zod was one "HOLY SHIT!" moment after another for me.

In brief: it's no Dark Knight, but it's still a damn good superhero movie.

Oh, and the scene where Clark flies for the first time? Stunning. Just brilliant.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

You can't take risks with Superman. Everyone expects the morally upright boy scout who never has to make impossible choices 'cause he's too effing powerful for the word impossible to have any meaning. Supes isn't a character that offers a challenge to audiences.

I'd personally find it pretty challenging to be some unkillable flying hero guy with an apparent moral obligation to save people. I don't know if Superman dies but if he doesn't then that would be far more challenging than almost anything I can think of.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It was too long, too action-set-piece heavy and ultimately left me bored. I was very disappointed. Lois Lane appeared and was annoying and stupid. Henry Cavill was decent enough and Russel Crowe was pretty good, but the pacing was wrong and none of the characters really got a chance to shine.

Oh boy, and now Matt Zoller Seitz of www.rogerebert.com isn't afraid to cite SEXISM! in his Man of Steel review: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/man-of-steel-2013

He makes a fair point. I wonder what everybody else thinks on this, since it's such a hot button in The Escapist lately.

Really? Sexism? Are we forgetting the insanely strong woman that came with Zod?

I didn't say I agreed with him, just that he made a fair point. This is what he had to say about the insanely strong woman that came with Zod:

(Zod's right-hand woman Fajora-Ul, Antje Traue, is a powerful presence, but she's even more desexualized than Lois; her character's main trait is a pathological hatred of men.)

And about Lois.

And what of Lois, played here by Amy Adams? Well, here's where things become really unfortunate: she's portrayed as a capable reporter, much more so than in previous screen incarnations, but I didn't detect much chemistry between her and Clark, even when you factor in the ungodly pressure they're both under. While Clark is dealing with his demons and the world's, she's uncovering a government conspiracy to hide evidence of a buried Kryptonian spacecraft, then struggling against her Daily Planet editor Perry White (Laurence Fishburne) for the right to publish the truth she can feel in her bones, even though she doesn't have all the facts to prove it. There are flirtatious moments between her and Clark, but they're few and far between, and I'm not convinced that the apocalyptic events surrounding the couple are the only reason for this.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So... any bets on whether Moviebob will love it or hate it? I'm leaning towards some enthusiastic praise of the good stuff followed by a more-in-sorrow-than-anger appraisal of the bad.

Turns out enthusiastic praise of the good and sorrowful appraisal of the bad is exactly what he went for. And sure enough heju deemed it a good movie overall.