What do DC fans like about DC?

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Fox12

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Because, for me, they have the only stories worth reading. They have Watchmen, the most sophisticated graphic novel of all time. They have The Killing Joke, and Swamp Thing, and The Sandman, and The Dark Knight Returns.'They have Batman, one of the most psychologically interesting characters ever made. They have all of Vertigo under their belt.

Where's Marvel's answer to Watchmen? Or even Sandman? Nothing they've ever written has ever come across as challenging or risky, and by extension, interesting. All they have are people in spandex having adventures each week. Which is fine. But that's not what I want to read. I want something a little different, and in order to get that I have to go to Dark Horse, or Image, or, yes, DC.
 

mduncan50

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Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.
Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.
Except he wont, or if he does, its to those who deserve it. But then I am of the mind that you kill the Emperor of the Sith, then just...DONT conquer the Galaxy. Seriously Bruce, its called free will.
But once you decide that you have the right, or even the obligation to kill the Joker, then where does is stop? How about Ra's Al Ghul? He's been having his own little mini genocides for hundreds of years. Zsasz? He pretty much lives only to murder. Killer Croc? Heck that's basically just putting down a deadly animal. Deadshot? Kills people for a living! Black Mask? He's has an army killing at his say so. At what point does it become okay just to kill anyone who poses a threat to anyone at any time? And don't get me wrong, me personally, someone kills my mother, someone rapes my sister, I would kill them without batting an eyelash or having a single restless night. But when he is actively seeking out the people breaking the law, he will stop being the Batman and will become the Punisher.
 

Saelune

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mduncan50 said:
Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.
Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.
Except he wont, or if he does, its to those who deserve it. But then I am of the mind that you kill the Emperor of the Sith, then just...DONT conquer the Galaxy. Seriously Bruce, its called free will.
But once you decide that you have the right, or even the obligation to kill the Joker, then where does is stop? How about Ra's Al Ghul? He's been having his own little mini genocides for hundreds of years. Zsasz? He pretty much lives only to murder. Killer Croc? Heck that's basically just putting down a deadly animal. Deadshot? Kills people for a living! Black Mask? He's has an army killing at his say so. At what point does it become okay just to kill anyone who poses a threat to anyone at any time? And don't get me wrong, me personally, someone kills my mother, someone rapes my sister, I would kill them without batting an eyelash or having a single restless night. But when he is actively seeking out the people breaking the law, he will stop being the Batman and will become the Punisher.
The way I see it, by Batman having an opportunity to kill the Joker, and choosing to not do it for moral high horse BS, then he is guilty for every murder the Joker commits after. Thus Batman is one of the biggest killers there. Sure, the mugger robbing a woman cause he is desperate for money isn't even close to a nihilistic killer clown, but Id rather a few muggers get undeservedly killed in place of non criminals. Still though, Id like to think Batman could actually control himself if he was less rigid with his no kill morality. Its really just a poor way to explain the real reason that he doesn't kill everyone, and why characters are so easily resurrected, which is to keep popular villains around.

And while I'm sure he has crossed the line multiple times, I ultimately don't despise the Punisher. If super villains were real, Id probably prefer him in my city than Batman.
 

mduncan50

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Fox12 said:
Because, for me, they have the only stories worth reading. They have Watchmen, the most sophisticated graphic novel of all time. They have The Killing Joke, and Swamp Thing, and The Sandman, and The Dark Knight Returns.'They have Batman, one of the most psychologically interesting characters ever made. They have all of Vertigo under their belt.

Where's Marvel's answer to Watchmen? Or even Sandman? Nothing they've ever written has ever come across as challenging or risky, and by extension, interesting. All they have are people in spandex having adventures each week. Which is fine. But that's not what I want to read. I want something a little different, and in order to get that I have to go to Dark Horse, or Image, or, yes, DC.
Kraven's Last Hunt; God Loves, Man Kills; Born Again; Marvels; Dark Phoenix Saga; Demon in a Bottle; Panther's Rage; Age of Apocalypse; Coming of Galactus; and on and on and on. Just because you haven't bothered to read them doesn't mean they don't exist. You make it very obvious from what you are saying that you have spent no time reading Marvel. You prefer DC, then prefer DC, but saying "All they have are people in spandex having adventures each week" is just laughably wrong.
 

Kolby Jack

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shrekfan246 said:
I mean, I was just referring to how thanks to Fox owning the film rights to all X-men related anything, Marvel has pushed the X-men to the side in favor of their big movie characters and has also mandated NO NEW MUTANTS in order to not give Fox any more fodder to work with. They even revised Squirrel Girl's mutant origin so Fox can't touch her. Even now, I bet they're RAGING about how successful Deadpool was.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Samtemdo8 said:
At the most basic surface level I just think the heroes are cooler and more powerful thus more exciting action would take place and its has Superman....a pure example of a Superhero. No gimmicks, nothing. I mean that is the thing about Marvel I don't like they have no Superman or Superman figure and no Captain America and Spiderman are not even close because none of them can stand center stage the sameway as Superman like this:







One of these is not like the other.


For me, it just had a more likable roster of heroes when it mattered about grabbing my attention. Marvel films have made great inroads to my heart for the broader comic incarnations of guys like Captain America, Vision, Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy and that's been nice. Thing is, I read the word 'superhero' and I instantly think of Superman.
 

Jute88

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I wouldn't count myself as neither Marvel or DC fan, purely because I don't follow comics closely, I'm more familiar with their animated versions. But if I had to pick, I'd probably rather read DC than Marvel.

First strike against Marvel is the whole Mutant prejudice. I think it's supposed to relate to teenagers (correct me if I'm way off) and how they're changing and how special they are. Okay, fine. But then you don't want anyone to supervise your group or what powers you possess? That's amazingly shortsighted. A group of people with that much power needs to be under watch.

Second strike: "We will be prejudiced towards mutants! But if you got your powers through scientific accidents, we're cool with that." What? How? What's the difference? What if there's a mutant who got a secondary power via science, what then?
 

DefunctTheory

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Gordon_4 said:
Samtemdo8 said:
At the most basic surface level I just think the heroes are cooler and more powerful thus more exciting action would take place and its has Superman....a pure example of a Superhero. No gimmicks, nothing. I mean that is the thing about Marvel I don't like they have no Superman or Superman figure and no Captain America and Spiderman are not even close because none of them can stand center stage the sameway as Superman like this:








One of these is not like the other.


For me, it just had a more likable roster of heroes when it mattered about grabbing my attention. Marvel films have made great inroads to my heart for the broader comic incarnations of guys like Captain America, Vision, Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy and that's been nice. Thing is, I read the word 'superhero' and I instantly think of Superman.
Is the different one the one from a series where Superman is, in fact, not center stage the majority of the time? Or the one where Superman has less lines of dialogue in his latest movie than Spiderman did in Captain America: Civil War?
 

Cicada 5

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DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
DC's replaced Batman at least twice and numerous stories focus on how screwed up his life is because of being Batman. Hell, the most recent "Batman got replaced" story treated his return to the cowl as a tragedy rather than a victory. As for the good guy winning, that's debatable when it comes to Batman given the Joker always treats being sent to Arkham as a vacation.
 

Cicada 5

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I liked the characters as a I grew up on JLU and the Batman and Superman TAS. I liked that the DCU has characters that can feel larger than life but at the same time feel relatable. Superman grew up as an adopted child, WW is a person who left home to see a new world, the various Blue Beetles persevere in face of adversity etc. I don't buy that one company has more relatable characters than the other. For me there's something relatable in both.


mduncan50 said:
Vausch said:
Saelune said:
mduncan50 said:
As someone that has loved both since childhood, lo those many years ago, DC and Marvel have always approached superheroes in a fundamentally different way. DC was about gods living among people while Marvel was about people with the powers of gods.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I suppose that is true. I don't remember what movie it was, but in it some guy saying why he liked Superman was because Superman was his true identity, while Clark is his alter ego, something different than a lot of heroes, like Batman or Spider-Man.

I always felt a lot of it also had to do with when each got started. When DC started, background and "reality" mattered less. It was just about beating up the bad guy. Early Marvel was similar too, but it wasn't until after WWII that Marvel found its identity, which pushed for more depth to the world.
That was Kill Bill, and it was wrong. Bill in it states that Clark is Superman's critique on the entire human race: "He's weak. He's bumbling. He's a coward". But no. That's who Clark is. That's one of the things I love about Superman: just shy of a god, but he's probably the most human of all the DC heroes. No kidding, I still well up a bit whenever I read "All Star Superman" and get to the jumper chapter.

Now Batman I agree with though. Bruce Wayne is an alter ego that Batman puts on. Bruce died that night along with his parents and Batman was born in that tragedy.

I also second the idea of DC characters being gods among men while Marvel's characters are human with godlike potential. It's a matter of scale too. I mean consider: In the MCU, so far there have been 13 films and 2 of which had a threat that was potentially world ending. And I mean literally ending. Arguably only 1 so far given the first Avengers film was more about taking over earth than wiping it out as Ultron intended. The Dark World had high stakes as well, but the threat wasn't targeted at earth. Each of the battles they've endured has been focused on THEM, the characters or a specific city or relatively small areas.

Now look at DC: The first movie in the DCEU was Man of Steel and it started with the entire Earth under threat and ended with thousands of people dead and millions if not more in damages. You have to scale it up pretty hard from there or make it so that every single movie has a threat to earth now if Superman is involved or it will feel like the stakes are low.
I'd agree with that. In Marvel comics if the world is at risk it is an Event. In DC comics, if the world is at risk, then it must be Thursday. Not sure how well that will translate for DC in the movies, as audiences may become incredulous to the fact that the world is at risk yet again, as the movies go on. I'll feel better once we can see a smaller movie from one of their big heroes. But then there's lot of things I'd like to see from DC movies at this point.
Eh, these days Marvel is just as event heavy as DC.
 

Cicada 5

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mduncan50 said:
Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
Saelune said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.
Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.
Except he wont, or if he does, its to those who deserve it. But then I am of the mind that you kill the Emperor of the Sith, then just...DONT conquer the Galaxy. Seriously Bruce, its called free will.
But once you decide that you have the right, or even the obligation to kill the Joker, then where does is stop? How about Ra's Al Ghul? He's been having his own little mini genocides for hundreds of years. Zsasz? He pretty much lives only to murder. Killer Croc? Heck that's basically just putting down a deadly animal. Deadshot? Kills people for a living! Black Mask? He's has an army killing at his say so. At what point does it become okay just to kill anyone who poses a threat to anyone at any time? And don't get me wrong, me personally, someone kills my mother, someone rapes my sister, I would kill them without batting an eyelash or having a single restless night. But when he is actively seeking out the people breaking the law, he will stop being the Batman and will become the Punisher.
This is a slipper slope fallacy as it assumes Bruce doesn't have the self awareness to know the difference between killing in self defense and pre meditated murder.

The only reason the killing/no killing debate even persists is because writers have villains with body counts that would make war criminals vomit. Scale down the gore and no one will question why the Joker hasn't gotten lethal injection. A no kill rule is fine as long as it's beneficial to people. Either make a Judge Dredd style universe or make a relatively decent world were villains aren't just complete monsters.
 

mduncan50

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Jute88 said:
I wouldn't count myself as neither Marvel or DC fan, purely because I don't follow comics closely, I'm more familiar with their animated versions. But if I had to pick, I'd probably rather read DC than Marvel.

First strike against Marvel is the whole Mutant prejudice. I think it's supposed to relate to teenagers (correct me if I'm way off) and how they're changing and how special they are. Okay, fine. But then you don't want anyone to supervise your group or what powers you possess? That's amazingly shortsighted. A group of people with that much power needs to be under watch.

Second strike: "We will be prejudiced towards mutants! But if you got your powers through scientific accidents, we're cool with that." What? How? What's the difference? What if there's a mutant who got a secondary power via science, what then?
Well then you'd be a big blue-furred Beast who funnily enough became both less hated at the time (he joined the Avengers not long after) and much more feared (because... well he's a big blue-furred beast).

You're way off on Mutant prejudice. It is both a metaphor for minorities of all strips, being hated just for being born different from the majority, as well as being the next step in human evolution. (Homo Superior) So while a meta-human may be held up as a pinnacle of human achievement or endurance, mutants are looked at as the death knell for the "normal" humans they are destined to replace. And they are not universally hated by everyone, however like in real life, there are those that are both powerful and loud enough to make things worse for them. Basically they're gay Mexicans with laser eyes or wings.

Agent_Z said:
Eh, these days Marvel is just as event heavy as DC.
Oh sure, they're both extremely even heavy, my point was just that in Marvel the events are usually the only place where the world ending threats are found, whereas in DC they're more commonplace. And I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's simply another example of the difference between the two companies and their worlds.
 

demoman_chaos

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Saelune said:
That's an interesting way to look at it. I suppose that is true. I don't remember what movie it was, but in it some guy saying why he liked Superman was because Superman was his true identity, while Clark is his alter ego, something different than a lot of heroes, like Batman or Spider-Man.
 

Saelune

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demoman_chaos said:
Saelune said:
That's an interesting way to look at it. I suppose that is true. I don't remember what movie it was, but in it some guy saying why he liked Superman was because Superman was his true identity, while Clark is his alter ego, something different than a lot of heroes, like Batman or Spider-Man.
I don't know why I remembered it visually in my head different, nor that it was from Kill Bill. Then again, I remember Vol 1 far better than 2.
 

elvor0

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Saelune said:
mduncan50 said:
As someone that has loved both since childhood, lo those many years ago, DC and Marvel have always approached superheroes in a fundamentally different way. DC was about gods living among people while Marvel was about people with the powers of gods.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I suppose that is true. I don't remember what movie it was, but in it some guy saying why he liked Superman was because Superman was his true identity, while Clark is his alter ego, something different than a lot of heroes, like Batman or Spider-Man.
It was Kill Bill, but I don't really agree with Bills view on it. Superman to me, is an extension of Clark Kent rather than Clark being an extension of Superman. It's very important to take into account that Superman is Superman because he is Clark Kent, and his persona and upbringing is what makes him Superman, and not just a super man. He may be biologically kryptonian but ultimately it's his humanity that makes him the beacon of hope he's supposed to be. Obviously he fakes himself being nervous and shy while he's Clark Kent to detract suspicion, but it's the noble attitude instilled by his Earth parents that make him who he is.

I also concur that Batman is the real persona rather than Bruce. Batman is who he is when he's alone, wheras someone like Peter Parker is still just Peter Parker when he's alone. This is really cemented by the animated series where the voice he puts on is Bruce Waynes voice, rather than putting on a Bat voice. It goes even further that in his later years he doesn't even call himself Bruce in his own head.


OT: At this time? I really don't know, the continuity is a mess, people remember things sometimes, but not others, they can remember things around certain people and have had events happen to them that are dependent on certain people being there but it never happened to them, there's a great deal of time compression. The previous continuity may have been heavy for a new reader, but at least you could just check wikipedia for history, now noone even knows what has and hasn't happened anymore.

Frankly I just stay away from the events because they're so bubbled and ultimately never have a real effect on the storylines. You'd never even know the Darkseid War was going on if you just read Batman, despite Batman being an integral character in it. Doubly weird considering it was running alongside a time when Bruce Wayne was "dead".

In general, it was the more olympian attitude to the stories, which I really enjoyed. Plus y'know, Batman, who I've been pretty enthralled with since the animated series aired. Plus Superman is one of a kind.

Ultimately it's definitely a flavour of crisps approach I'd say. I think DC does apocalyptic gods vs monsters better than Marvel, but Marvel has a much better handle on the human element, which has always been Stan Lees MO. DCs characters are supposed to be about amazing people doing amazing things, wheras Marvel was about making you connect on a human level.
 

elvor0

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DudeistBelieve said:
Which back on topic, is why I'm glad DC kinda skimps over this. Once again, Batman saves the day and doesn't kill the joker. The story goes on forever, because do we really want to see the story where Batman goes "Why am I doing this?" and he gets a girlfriend and realizes he can't put the horrible shit in his past behind him? .
It's funny you should say that. That did actually just happen. He even killed The Joker. Didn't stick and he does take up the cowl again but it did happen. It was a really enjoyable story, Jim Gordon was Batman while Bruce was on vacation.
 

Vausch

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DudeistBelieve said:
Which back on topic, is why I'm glad DC kinda skimps over this. Once again, Batman saves the day and doesn't kill the joker. The story goes on forever, because do we really want to see the story where Batman goes "Why am I doing this?" and he gets a girlfriend and realizes he can't put the horrible shit in his past behind him? I mean I'm glad he got a happy ending in The Dark Knight trilogy, but that's not Batman.
Mask of the Phantasm, dude. That was one of the best Batman movies ever. Arguably THE best.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Agent_Z said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
DC's replaced Batman at least twice and numerous stories focus on how screwed up his life is because of being Batman. Hell, the most recent "Batman got replaced" story treated his return to the cowl as a tragedy rather than a victory. As for the good guy winning, that's debatable when it comes to Batman given the Joker always treats being sent to Arkham as a vacation.
He saves the day.

Thematically, you can't just kill The Joker anyway. He's really more than just a man, he's chaos incarnate. He's the living embodiment of Batman's whole struggle of forcing a world to make sense that intrinsically does not.

Fine he kills this Joker. But Joker will come back. Maybe not the same flesh and blood man, but another person. Another gimmick. So that's the other half of it. The story doesn't end, because it can't end.

mmmm This whole post I wrote feels very pretentious to me, but I'll post it anyway.
 

Cicada 5

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DudeistBelieve said:
Agent_Z said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
DC's replaced Batman at least twice and numerous stories focus on how screwed up his life is because of being Batman. Hell, the most recent "Batman got replaced" story treated his return to the cowl as a tragedy rather than a victory. As for the good guy winning, that's debatable when it comes to Batman given the Joker always treats being sent to Arkham as a vacation.
He saves the day.

Thematically, you can't just kill The Joker anyway. He's really more than just a man, he's chaos incarnate. He's the living embodiment of Batman's whole struggle of forcing a world to make sense that intrinsically does not.

Fine he kills this Joker. But Joker will come back. Maybe not the same flesh and blood man, but another person. Another gimmick. So that's the other half of it. The story doesn't end, because it can't end.

mmmm This whole post I wrote feels very pretentious to me, but I'll post it anyway.
This just proves my point. Batman never actually wins. Even if he did kill the Joker he'd either be resurrected or be replaced by something worse. What type of fantasy is this supposed to be? Who would want to escape to a world like this?
 

DudeistBelieve

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Agent_Z said:
DudeistBelieve said:
Agent_Z said:
DudeistBelieve said:
I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?
DC's replaced Batman at least twice and numerous stories focus on how screwed up his life is because of being Batman. Hell, the most recent "Batman got replaced" story treated his return to the cowl as a tragedy rather than a victory. As for the good guy winning, that's debatable when it comes to Batman given the Joker always treats being sent to Arkham as a vacation.
He saves the day.

Thematically, you can't just kill The Joker anyway. He's really more than just a man, he's chaos incarnate. He's the living embodiment of Batman's whole struggle of forcing a world to make sense that intrinsically does not.

Fine he kills this Joker. But Joker will come back. Maybe not the same flesh and blood man, but another person. Another gimmick. So that's the other half of it. The story doesn't end, because it can't end.

mmmm This whole post I wrote feels very pretentious to me, but I'll post it anyway.
This just proves my point. Batman never actually wins. Even if he did kill the Joker he'd either be resurrected or be replaced by something worse. What type of fantasy is this supposed to be? Who would want to escape to a world like this?
Because our world is full of Jokers, but there is no Batman.