What do DC fans like about DC?
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Doesn't seem like he's doing much good. Especially when the rise of costumed criminals in Gotham is attributed to him. Hell, the movie that clip is from shows Batman as being responsible for the Joker's creation.DudeistBelieve said:
So what? Gotham was better off with a corrupted police force and completely under control of the crime families?Agent_Z said:
As quick as Joker is getting out, he's going right back in. Even with the senseless murder it's still better than what they had before.
Fuck, tourism alone in Gotham is probably a huge industry driving their economy. All their criminals are artists, it's theater crime.
Yeah, I forgot to put the whole minority angle, thanks for that. The problem with the metaphor, is that they have these amazing abilities that can (in the worst case) cause destruction and loss of lives. True, not all mutants are bad, hell, most of them don't even have world shattering powers (I think one of them could decipher any code in the world. That could be world shattering, but I digress). But treating them like everyone is just not a very realistic possibility.mduncan50 said:
Minorities don't possess these kinds of abilities, they're just different from the majority population. Whether it's religion, customs, language, appearance, sexuality or whatever. That's why the metaphor falls flat. Alien Nation was a metaphor about minorities and it worked... I think? It's been years since I saw the show.
The whole "next step in evolution" is interesting, and there's a lot story potential in delving into it. But the problem with the "good, benevolent" mutants is that they don't (as far as I know) offer any solutions to a situation where hundreds (or millions?) have god knows what powers and they simply cannot be left unchecked. At the bare minimum, there should be a list of people and what mutant abilities they possess. That way atleast the officials could have a lead from where to start if a crime is being committed and evidence suggests that a mutant was involved. Though granted, the person could also be a meta-human, but I hope you see what I'm trying to say.
I guess the problem with me is that, though mutants with super powers saving people is a cool idea, the fact that they want to address prejudice as well, gives it a more grounded and realistic feel, which in turn sort of requires the setting to handle these comic book concepts (super powers) somewhat realistically.
Sorry if it turned into a bit of rant. It's just been bugging me for years.
Maybe I should clarify things a bit. I don't think Marvel, or superheroes, are bad. I just don't like expanded universe hero stories. I feel like Image and Dark Horse, and to a lesser extent DC, have a little bit more variety. While Marvel may have some good stuff, it's still part of a larger, ever going universe. That's why I, personally, prefer DC to Marvel. The fact that they caught the talent of Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman doesn't hurt either.mduncan50 said:
In my experience I've found that both companies are essentially identical. They both have good and bad stories, relatable and unreliable characters, stupid and smart editorial decisions, ect.
I just want to fight a little against the stereotype of DC constantly rebooting when they've done it twice (three if you count rebirth, haven't gotten a chance to read it yet). What Marvel does is far worse and more scummy to me, they put out a new number 1 and get a boost in sales and when the sales wane they cancel the book and put out a new number one with the same exact character and creative team. That's why I stopped reading Marvel, I got sick of every series ending at issue 6 and starting up again.
I just want to fight a little against the stereotype of DC constantly rebooting when they've done it twice (three if you count rebirth, haven't gotten a chance to read it yet). What Marvel does is far worse and more scummy to me, they put out a new number 1 and get a boost in sales and when the sales wane they cancel the book and put out a new number one with the same exact character and creative team. That's why I stopped reading Marvel, I got sick of every series ending at issue 6 and starting up again.
I'm an off and on again DC fan.
The biggest issue in comics is that writers change frequently. If you like a character when he's being written by one writer, you might hate exactly the same character and find their book boring a year later when someone else is writing it.
Some people are massive fans of a character or team and will buy their book regardless, for me I only buy comics if I think I'll enjoy them which means I want them to be well written. Lately the direction DC has been going and the stories it's writers have been telling have been a real turn-off for me.
These past few years, Marvel's simply been where it's at. In the entire New 52 in DC, I've maybe thought 6 comics runs were good. Azzarello Wonder Woman, Prez, Morrison's Action Comics, Demon Knights before they changed the writer and Grayson are good comics that I'd consistently buy/bought until they change/changed up the team on them.
I've got a lot of love for some DC characters and some of my favourites have been in great strorylines, but the last few years have been sub-par and I'm not going to waste my money on that.
The biggest issue in comics is that writers change frequently. If you like a character when he's being written by one writer, you might hate exactly the same character and find their book boring a year later when someone else is writing it.
Some people are massive fans of a character or team and will buy their book regardless, for me I only buy comics if I think I'll enjoy them which means I want them to be well written. Lately the direction DC has been going and the stories it's writers have been telling have been a real turn-off for me.
These past few years, Marvel's simply been where it's at. In the entire New 52 in DC, I've maybe thought 6 comics runs were good. Azzarello Wonder Woman, Prez, Morrison's Action Comics, Demon Knights before they changed the writer and Grayson are good comics that I'd consistently buy/bought until they change/changed up the team on them.
I've got a lot of love for some DC characters and some of my favourites have been in great strorylines, but the last few years have been sub-par and I'm not going to waste my money on that.
Quentin Tarintino doesn't get Superman.demoman_chaos said:
What I liked more about DC (excluding Batman) is their short or one off stories like Kingdom Come, Allstar Superman, Batman: Year One and The Killing Jokes.
I mean do people knows others one off Marvel stories other than Spiderman Reign?
Also from my time reading Marvel and DC comics I borrow from the library, I tend to have (it something I do, not every one does) to read up on the extra characters after reading the stories with Marvel comics then I do with DC.
I mean do people knows others one off Marvel stories other than Spiderman Reign?
Also from my time reading Marvel and DC comics I borrow from the library, I tend to have (it something I do, not every one does) to read up on the extra characters after reading the stories with Marvel comics then I do with DC.
For one, DC has always had the feel of modern myth. Yes the characters are fallible and had their flaws but ultimately they are heroes in and out of costume. They are exemplars and paragons, people of strong moral fibre. For many DC heroes they have their roots in earlier, more idealistic times and it shows. They speak to the best in us, of what we could be.
Another thing that makes DC appealing to me is the sense of family that is so strong within the superhero community. You can play three degrees of separation and find that you have encompassed the vast majority of DC characters from the same time period (IE not the Legion or those characters like Amethyst whose adventures are set in a different world). Everyone of note seems to know everyone else. The heroes realistically work well together because they are friends as much as they are team mates.
Another thing that makes DC appealing to me is the sense of family that is so strong within the superhero community. You can play three degrees of separation and find that you have encompassed the vast majority of DC characters from the same time period (IE not the Legion or those characters like Amethyst whose adventures are set in a different world). Everyone of note seems to know everyone else. The heroes realistically work well together because they are friends as much as they are team mates.
In terms of one shots of limited series, off the top of my head I would recommend are:Scarim Coral said:
Ares
Destroyer MAX
Dr Strange: The Oath
Fantastic Four 1234
Marvel Boy
Nextwave
Runaways vol 1
There's different tones for each. Dr Stange The Oath is quite serious and delves into his character quite a lot, while Nextwave is pure fun. If you're thinking of buying them, read some reviews and see if it's the kind of tone you like. They're not all the big
Some other decent ones that I think are okay but wouldn't necessarily recommend myself, but I know others really enjoy are:
Carnage USA
Marvel 1602
Marvel Zombies
Additionally Marvel does a lot of short arc in their ongoings that are easy to jump onto. I'd recommend Vision, which is out now as one of the best books being put out at the moment, as well as Fractions Hawkeye which ran for 20 odd issues and wound up a few days ago. Also try the first six issues of the previous Moon Knight run, the ones written by Ellis.
Lastly the recent Secret Wars event was odd because usually event tie-ins suck but Secret Wars had loads of high quality ones. I'd pick Thors, Marvel Zombies (Note, not the same as the one recommended above. This would be "Secret Wars: Marvel Zombies" or something), Siege, Weirdwold and Infinity Gauntlet as standouts.
I like the scope, the scale and the magnitude of their actions. They're larger than life and I find I'm more intrigued by the threats they face as well. The modern mythology aspect really works for me.
It's not the same with Marvel for me. It has always been the case that, though I like a lot of Marvel characters and I enjoy their stories, I can never find much interest in following their books in the long-term. Even when the writing is better, I'm just not as curious or excited to see what comes next. I'm more content with following these characters in other media.
Of course, there are exceptions in both companies, but that's the general rule for me.
It's not the same with Marvel for me. It has always been the case that, though I like a lot of Marvel characters and I enjoy their stories, I can never find much interest in following their books in the long-term. Even when the writing is better, I'm just not as curious or excited to see what comes next. I'm more content with following these characters in other media.
Of course, there are exceptions in both companies, but that's the general rule for me.
With this logic about the DC Universe, does that mean this is the reason most readers love Batman the most? Because it is the human among the Gods who can stand beside them equally in DC? Make sense to me really.mduncan50 said:
I'd say that is both the reason he has engendered so much love, as well as the reason for much of the backlash against him over the last few decades. He started out as the best of humanity, but also as a symbol that was able to stand alongside those gods. Over the past while however he has pretty much become deus ex batmana. He can beat anyone and anything based on the fact that he's the motherf'ing Batman, and he has pretty much gained the superpower of never being able to lose.SweetShark said:
I realize the OP probably has superheroes in mind. But what I appreciate about DC is that it's had room for things like Sandman, Preacher, Watchmen, Hellblazer, V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing, and some incarnations of Grendel.
I'm not exactly a loyalist fanatic, though. I read both DC and Marvel, and a lot of other things based on what's available at the library and what friends recommend at any given time. I will say that within the "superhero" continuity, what I've read of DC lately has more often given me reasons to cringe. When focusing on individual characters, with talented authors, DC often shines; when trying to do stories that cover enormous numbers of super-powered people and universe-shattering consequences, my run-ins with DC have been convoluted, preposterous affairs that fail to make the audience care.
I'm not exactly a loyalist fanatic, though. I read both DC and Marvel, and a lot of other things based on what's available at the library and what friends recommend at any given time. I will say that within the "superhero" continuity, what I've read of DC lately has more often given me reasons to cringe. When focusing on individual characters, with talented authors, DC often shines; when trying to do stories that cover enormous numbers of super-powered people and universe-shattering consequences, my run-ins with DC have been convoluted, preposterous affairs that fail to make the audience care.
I'm firmly in the 'Best Rogues Gallery' camp when it comes to why Batman is awesome. He's got interesting villains, which makes his stories very entertaining. They can often carry the load all by themselves.SweetShark said:
I think this also draws a lot of good writers and animators/artist to him, which in turn means there are a lot of good Batman stories.
From a purely DC perspective, I also think Batman has a lot more wiggle room than a lot of their 'God' heroes. Power creep has put characters like Superman in a position where it's a fight just to put them in a situation more interesting then 'Must Stop World From Going Boom,' while Batman can do stories ranging from 'End of the World' to 'Hunting Down a Hooker Murderer' to, yes, 'Mortal Standing Among Gods.'
Pretty much yeah. I've read a number of stories about Gotham's past and nothing there was ever as bad as what it is like in the present. Hell, that was even lampshade in Nolan's Dark Knight were Batman actually made things worse by inspiring the Joker and other copycat vigilantes.DudeistBelieve said:
In the real world, there's nobody like the Joker, and if he had existed, well, he would have been killed decades ago. The Joker is so ridiculously violent a character that killing him is literally the ONLY way to deal with him.
And I doubt a hell hole like Gotham would be good tourism attraction for anyone but the most suicidally stupid.