What do people actually want male gamers to be like?
- Thread starter Doclector
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How can you have ten pages of discussion on anything and come out none the wiser? Did you come into this trying not to learn or something? I mean, just from a casual glance I can see that pretty much everyone is giving you the same, IMO correct advice: don't be a dick, be kind and respectful, don't take grievances about behaviours that don't match yours so personally, listen->empathise->consider->react. Are you just waiting for someone to agree with you and validate your beliefs? I realise I'm sounding like a dick here but if you actually care about fixing the issue rather than bitching about it you're going to have to be less stubborn.Doclector said:
I really don't think "Male gamers" have to do anything.
The vast majority are reasonable people. You have to realise a lot of the running and shouting of "Male Gamers are sexist" is done by, frankly, very stupid people.
These people, simply lack the capacity for a decent argument, they lack the ability to consider a wider field, instead they simply see a small group of people, and decide that "This represents all males!" and begin their frankly deluded crusader to "Bring down the patriarchy".
Despite that fact that people around the world, regardless of race and gender, elevate themselves to whatever position they desire, they seem to believe the reason they're incapable of such is due to their gender, sexual orientation, or even race.
The majority of female gamers I know, really pretty much on equal footing with male gamers.
I play a lot of MMOs, and thus "This armour is terrible" comes up a lot, but, beyond that, most seem perfectly happy.
So, frankly, whatever it is this people are spouting, none of it seems evident in my experience.
The vast majority are reasonable people. You have to realise a lot of the running and shouting of "Male Gamers are sexist" is done by, frankly, very stupid people.
These people, simply lack the capacity for a decent argument, they lack the ability to consider a wider field, instead they simply see a small group of people, and decide that "This represents all males!" and begin their frankly deluded crusader to "Bring down the patriarchy".
Despite that fact that people around the world, regardless of race and gender, elevate themselves to whatever position they desire, they seem to believe the reason they're incapable of such is due to their gender, sexual orientation, or even race.
The majority of female gamers I know, really pretty much on equal footing with male gamers.
I play a lot of MMOs, and thus "This armour is terrible" comes up a lot, but, beyond that, most seem perfectly happy.
So, frankly, whatever it is this people are spouting, none of it seems evident in my experience.
Seriously, man. Do whatever you want, as long as you're not hurting anybody.Doclector said:
If someone surprises you by telling you that something you did that you thought was harmless hurt them, then stop doing it around *that specific person.*
There you have it. All the rules you'll ever need to live your life by. Good luck.
I'm sorry I don't have a "perfect" set of rules that will keep everybody in the world happy before you even meet them, but unfortunately that's not the way social standards of acceptable behavior work. Different groups of people want and expect different things of you. The good news is people are generally pretty decent, so as long as you correct your mistakes as you become aware of them, people on both sides of the debate (pretty much ANY debate) will learn to give you the benefit of the doubt.
FYI, this is how successful alphas become successful-- they aren't just total dickbags to everybody all the time. If they were, people would shut them down. You can assert yourself and project confidence without being a total douchebag to everybody around you. The whole alpha/nice guy thing is a false dichotomy.
Gamergate threads are NOT a good place to go for life advice right now. The entire debate is polarizing and stupid, and the clickbait doesn't help either. It's a little better here on the Escapist than elsewhere, but only because it's better moderated here than elsewhere.
Oh, and as for gamergate itself, if you think women should be allowed to play video games, you think rape and murder threats are bad, and you don't want them to stop making (insert genre of video game here,) then congradulations, you're in the middle of the road. The camp that the VAST MAJORITY of the people talking about this would be in if someone hadn't lied to them and told them that they had to pick either "team sexist" or "team censorship" back at the start of this nonsense.
Do whatever you want, and don't hurt anybody. That's it. That's all.
This is VIDEO GAMES. What rights do you have in an entertainment community besides the right to buy or not buy? They aren't required by law to include minorities in their games. If you don't like how video game businesses operate, best way to make them change is tell them why and then STOP BUYING GAMES. If profits go down enough, they will change. Problem fucking solved, but I know gamers in general are not that bright to understand basic business practices. Otherwise EA would of been dead at least a decade ago.dragonswarrior said:
No. You're mistaken. You have the "ability" to ask for desires to be fulfilled. You buy their products. You hold no shares in their company, you aren't a CEO and I'm not either. You are a customer and the relation ends there. Just because you buy something doesn't mean you have the rights to control what is in it. Gamers (sorry for sounding harsh here. not my intentions but I want to be straight forward here) need to get off their high horses and realize they aren't as important to the process of making games as they think they are. Just because you go to a movie doesn't mean you get a say in what is in it. Nor because you read a book do you get to decide who lives or dies in it. The audience itself doesn't even really know what it wants. And when the audience gets what it wants, it's not happy or satisfied.SAMAS said:
"The path to mediocrity is to follow the audience."
If someone REALLY doesn't like a game, they should sell it to Gamestop to have it sold as a used game. I hear companies really hate that policy.
Well you see I am the head of a male dominated society that's been oppressing females since the beginning of man kind, we don't have a name for it yet. 
Perhaps I should stop doing that
Perhaps I should stop doing that
People keep complaining about this unique and total form of male oppression of females, but honestly from where I'm standing on top of a pile of repressed women, I can't see any problems.FlameBoyBen said:Well you see I am the head of a male dominated society that's been oppressing females since the beginning of man kind, we don't have a name for it yet.
Perhaps I should stop doing that
*Patriarchal high-five*
OT
People want male gamers to be more like me: flawless and moustached. Sadly, there's only so much of me to go around, which is why we have all this awful inequality.
I think during times of peace or during periods of low level conflict you're allowed to enlist in specific branches of the armed forces. During actual war or large scale mobilization, the government may shuffle you into specific roles as needed. Like, say, there's a shortage of fighter pilots (there's not because nowadays there are way more people than planes) or infantry. When you get your draft card, you get sent to that specific branch. But's only if they need you right the fuck now.Bat Vader said:
Oh yeah... we all love this male privilege we all have.thaluikhain said:
http://i.imgur.com/d1rHXlN.png
No matter that 80% of suicides are male, 95% of workplace deaths are male, 76% of homicide victims are male, 50% of domestic violence victims are male but have no shelters, 90% of unsheltered homeless are male, 50% of rape victims are male but are not counted as raped in statistics (thanks feminists http://i.imgur.com/EiRQcj1.png).
But god damn all this male privilege is AWESOME!
I just would like to point out that a conversation about privilege in general, is a racist conversation.
It may be a well intended, and candy coated to sound empathetic, but at its core it is a conversation focused on differences and categorizing people by something they have no control over. Identity is a combination of a myriad of variables, gender/race/sex are only a small fraction.
Inclusivity should be a conversation about similarities, and how we are not all that different, since we are human beings after all.
It may be a well intended, and candy coated to sound empathetic, but at its core it is a conversation focused on differences and categorizing people by something they have no control over. Identity is a combination of a myriad of variables, gender/race/sex are only a small fraction.
Inclusivity should be a conversation about similarities, and how we are not all that different, since we are human beings after all.
To the contrary, lately I've actually been fairly interested in the idea of a conscription policy. It'd provide a larger recruiting base for the professional military in times of war, would help keep people fit (although I'll admit to being a hypocrite on this one, derp), would help train people in firearm safety, and would also, in my opinion, imbue people with a greater sense of civic duty and responsibility. Hell, perhaps instead of only allowing military service, we could reinstate certain programs such as the Civilian Conservation Corps, who would help maintain forests and parks, as well as aid in environmental protection, and also start some sort of civilian engineering corps, who would work with the Army Corps of Engineers to maintain and improve the damaged infrastructure of the USA.Bat Vader said:
To my knowledge, conscription systems are fairly common in Europe, where they've always had a history of conscription in wartime; however, if there are any other who've had experience dealing with a conscription-based military, I'd be interested in hearing their perspectives.
Glen Compton said:
Well there are a lot of racist/sexist/otherwise bigoted things in society. Discussions of privilege address these elements, especially since many of them are invisible to those not directly experiencing them.
It's not talking about how people are different. It's talking about how society treats people differently for unfair reasons.
I am sorry, but it still shaming people for their diversity. Talking about that IS racism.QuietlyListening said:
I warned you that it would appear to be well intended, but equality is about bringing people to the same level, not knocking people down for their "privilege."
*Looks around at the quality of the average video game* I guess game companies already follow the audience then.Ramzal said:
No I'm not mistaken. Who's gonna stop us, you? Can you point out the line in the EULA that says I can't ask for more diversity, more variety, in my video game protagonists?Ramzal said:
So I'm gonna keep asking. And I'm gonna keep mocking them every time I get yet another 30-ish white guy with brown hair, most likely closely cropped, and a five-o-clock shadow. And if you don't like it... Well, I suppose you can type angry words at me over the internet, if that makes you feel better.
We're not trying to tell them how to write their gorram stories, we just want them to put a little more thought into their protagonists, and the people whom you want to get into their shoes.
Seriously, calm the hell down. We are asking for only one thing. There is no slippery slope here. Why does this mess always happen when a minority decides it doesn't like being marginalized? You get a bunch of Chicken Littles running around saying it's the End of Western Civilization. I think the fact that it's usually not the same guys every time that keeps them from realizing how stupid it is.
I guess I would have to ask what your obsession with race or gender is? It sort of feels like a porn fetish to me.SAMAS said:
I have never been off put that the protagonist for most JRPGs are Asian dudes or women. I just immerse myself into the plot and become the character I am playing.
If I needed to relate to the main character, I would probably hate most movies, tv shows, and books I read as well. I am nothing like most of my favorite characters, but I love them for what they are, not what I see of myself in them.