What do you Define as "Cheap"?

[TurtleBlob]

Please read the entire post - I do come around to sanity in the end (or not, it's a matter of opinion)

I hate when people think that, "oh it's ok, I'm having fun, and so you don't have any right to stop me".

This is arrogant and selfish. Lame tactics only serve to artificially increase your score based not on skill but on the developer´s mistakes. It's an empty pleasure, or should be, if you have any higher brain function at all. And then people say that, "yeah sure just go ahead and be lame too, use whatever asshole tactic you can".

How is this not simply exasperating the problem?

I for one don't want to play a game where the only useful weapon is the grenade launcher or the rocket launcher or whatever. "Oh, so that's your point, just stop playing this game if it sucks so hard" say the assholes, "let us keep on abusing it and *having fun*".

So now the plan is for me to stop using the product in favor of the abusers?

D'ya see where this is going - here the abusers say that they have as much right as anyone else to play as they like, and they do.

This is not a solvable argument, at all.

If the developer makes this big a mistake, in the case of martyrdom they made it twice(Just kidding, it's not quite that bad, just annoying). They either have to patch it or see customers move on for better balanced games. In the case of some developers they don't care, they already have your money.

 

[Communist partisan]

2 words: My mom.

 

[DerangedBeing]

the Jab Locks that anyone with a Rapid A can do.

Those are actually really easy to get out of

If someone lets you out of a Jab Lock early, consider yourself lucky. I only referenced the Rapid A Wall Jab Lock in that conversation you quoted, but there's actually a hell of a lot of them that people can do, usually just by using a Walking Jab Fake. Some people are working on trying to make them infinite, even on stages without walls (I'm pretty sure a wall would allow most to infinite freely. I've definitely seen this happen with the Lazer Lock and with Metaknight and Pikachu).

 

[Woodsey]

Your Mum. Ho ho.

Seriously: I define cheap as the people who use glitches in their favour.

 

[DerangedBeing]

Please read the entire post - I do come around to sanity in the end (or not, it's a matter of opinion)

I hate when people think that, "oh it's ok, I'm having fun, and so you don't have any right to stop me".

This is arrogant and selfish. Lame tactics only serve to artificially increase your score based not on skill but on the developer´s mistakes. It's an empty pleasure, or should be, if you have any higher brain function at all. And then people say that, "yeah sure just go ahead and be lame too, use whatever asshole tactic you can".

How is this not simply exasperating the problem?

I for one don't want to play a game where the only useful weapon is the grenade launcher or the rocket launcher or whatever. "Oh, so that's your point, just stop playing this game if it sucks so hard" say the assholes, "let us keep on abusing it and *having fun*".

So now the plan is for me to stop using the product in favor of the abusers?

D'ya see where this is going - here the abusers say that they have as much right as anyone else to play as they like, and they do.

This is not a solvable argument, at all.

If the developer makes this big a mistake, in the case of martyrdom they made it twice(Just kidding, it's not quite that bad, just annoying). They either have to patch it or see customers move on for better balanced games. In the case of some developers they don't care, they already have your money.

That was my first Bolding. Yay, I did it ight my first try.

Anyway, you don't seem like you've left sanity at all. You describe Over-Centralization, which is one of the worst problems a compeditive game can have (such as in Marvel vs Capcom 2, where your ONLY option when playing compeditively is to use characters with Infinites and to get the first hit in before your enemy does), and then how it negatively impacts those that want to play and haven't been absorbed into the "Wining is the only thing that matters" mindset.

 

[orangebandguy]

The TF2 Engineer. I mean it's just standing round next to a super gun with aimbot.

I just don't like playing him really. But demos are always ready to obliiterate him so it's all balanced.

 

[Uszi]

Cheap for me is usually a way of playing where one player monopolizes the fun and makes the game shitty for others, usually breaking it in some way.

Some examples immediately come to mind:

1. Warsong gulch teams that rape in the first 5 minutes, score 2 flag caps, and run around with the flag for another hour farming kills.

2. Organized teams in Headquarters in any CoD game, that are winning by a margin of a couple hundred points, who coordinate their dogs/helicopters/etc, and again campu around the last headquarters without capping it, letting the game go on for-ever just so they can farm kills.

3. Paying money online for in-game items, ala Diablo 2.


I think if players who aren't using some sort of exploitative mechanic have no reasonable means of counter-acting the exploitative behavavior of the "Cheap" people, then it is cheap. Not cheap is anything that players are doing that there already exists ways around it, i.e. using stealth Characters in DotA or Eddie Gordo in Tekken, or Akimbo Shotguns in MW2.

 

[BNguyen]

On Modern Warfare or any multiplayer shooter that has a grenade launcher and those rookies who use it only in order to get kills

 

[Red Right Hand]

i´d define cheap as:

1. overpowered/ too powerful.
2. able to execute extremely long unfair combos.
3. has a 1 hit KO move.

i have a character in fighting games for each of those:

1. Snake from SSBB.
2. Meta Knight from SSBB (honorable mention goes to Reapermon from Digimon Rumble Arena).
3. Paul from Tekken (not a 1-hit KO, but it takes you down to 1% health. and when i used to play it, i didnt know how to block, so my friend killed me a second later.)

Nah man, Kirby and Pikachu from SSB, the original. That fucking block move that Kirby had still gives me nightmares. Fuckin Kirby...

 

[Conqueror Kenny]

I think this [http://shoryuken.com/?p=1145] write up at Shoryken.com says it better than I possibly could. Simply replace the words "Fair/Unfair" with "Not cheep/Cheep."
Basically as long as you are playing by the rules (AKA The game's code) then almost nothing is cheep. However if not all players have the option to either chose those characters or exploit the same tactic then it is cheep.
People are always quick to say that Sagat and Seth (huh?) are cheep, but the people picking them aren't cheep, if you have got something against it, why don't you just pick those characters? Nobody is stopping you, and you have had the option since paying for the game.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I would define cheap as:
cheap - adj:
1) Using a strategy/item that has no known countermeasure
2) Exploitation of errors, bugs, or outright cheating

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

The noob tube (grenade launcher) in COD4.

"Dur, I could aim at your head/body with my ironsights and shoot there, but I'd rather aim roughly at your feet and launch an explosive."

I only let it go for players under level 15. Hey, we were all new once, right?

Were it not for the bling perk I'd almost never use the launcher. As it stands, I use the launcher until I unlock the shotgun, then red dot/silencer. Then it's just the red dot until I unlock FMJ.

 

[Dimbo_Sama]

just anything that makes the game un-even. Like. Eddie/Christy from Tekken.

too easy to pwn with them.

In like, an FPS it doesn't matter, everyone has the same chance as everyone else but in fighting games characters like that piss me off and there's ALWAYS one!

The annoying thing about Tekken is the best character is Yoshimitsu but he's impossible to know how to use.

 

[redjarman]

The reason I stopped playing GOW2.
EVERYBODY spamming punch/shotgun to the face combo. It was a mix of annoyance at getting killed so much, and boredom at the lack of variety. I wouldn't mind it so much it the shotgun wasn't a freakin default weapon.

 

[blood77]

I think cheap is best defined as "A strategy that will garantee a quick and decisive victory while giving your opponent no chance of success, no matter what his/her level of skill is."

When I first read the subject line of this thread I thought you were going to be talking about cheap games

 

[Jared]

Anything generally under £20 for me is cheap.

Or, anything thats high value been sold for low price, thats cheap! Although gotta watch for the quality on those

 

[TPiddy]

Anything without a real weakness that renders other options moot simply because it is always the best choice. Anything that can't be defended against. Such as sticking a frag grenade to a wall in GOW2 since it blows anyone up the instant they get in range, can be hidden behind door frames and can't be escaped.

This has to be one of the best answers I've seen for this question... though I will argue the frag grenade because there are ways to get around that. If you can see them, you can shoot them to detonate them, or throw a grenade / smoke of your own to set it off.

 

[Katana314]

in response to hypothetical fact: I think in most shooters, shooting other people is considered cheap. I mean, how else are you going to kill them? Knifing is moot. Grenades are slow. It can't be defended against.

I make a personal note of exploiting mechanisms considered "Cheap" as much as possible until a game is patched, or a later revision of the game addresses the issue. I don't think it should fall upon the community to redesign a game. The fact that people so often must attempt to means developers are not balancing the game well enough.