What happened to Varied enemies?

[CrimsonBlaze]

That's why I enjoy RPGs: you get to go to multiple areas and come across a lot of new and different enemies that require a different tactic to take down or see old favorites with more HP and Power, forcing you to act more defensively than offensively.

 

[krazykidd]

In two relatively simplistic games that are not generally seen as combat focussed have this. Minecraft enemies die easiest when you use different tactics for each of them, and the varied AIs in Terraria need different methods to kill them. Not to mention that I've never seen a Zelda game in which all of the enemies fight exactly the same.

Ahh minecraft. teres nothing more fun than when you get the skeleton to kill it for you

For zelda, I was actually trying to stay in the realm of first person, if you didn't have varied enemies in an RTS or RPG, then you'd have a pretty shitty RTS or RPG.

Zelda is most definitely NOT a RTS or an RPG. I get your point, though. FPSs are all about engaging and taking down the enemies, so the homogeny you're describing is central to the lull we're experiencing in the genre. Truly sad. I think the Uncharted games are a little too watered down and mass marketed, but they're still engaging even when you fight a boss character on a train and empty a couple of clips into bare skin and he still doesn't go down, because the levels, the challenges and the nature of the gameplay keeps changing. The nature of FPS gameplay doesn't really change all that much. Goldeneye gave us objectives, the Rainbow Six games were more tactical and focused nearly as much on being a leader as on shooting, and Crysis 2 lets you take advantage of the skyscrapers to get around/take down your enemies, and gives you superhuman jumping, speed and strength. Most everything in between suffers from the technology making the illusion more difficult to maintain because everything around the illusion is fast approaching photorealism.

Zelda is totally an rpg what are you saying? If it's not an rpg then what is it?

 

[teh_Canape]

what about the Serious Sam Encounters remakes and Serious Sam 3? those are pretty damn varied
Hard Reset has some variety too, though not as much during a single battle, but still, you do have to use strategy on it, since there's a lot of powerful environmental hazards that you can use

 

[funguy2121]

Zelda is totally an rpg what are you saying? If it's not an rpg then what is it?

Oh, how I envy you.

It would appear that the definition of RPG is changing. If that is true, if Mass Effect, a game whose outcome depends upon the skill of the player and not on a virtual dice roll, is an RPG, then fine, Zelda can be an RPG too. If Final Fantasy is still the RPG standard, then Zelda most definitely is not an RPG and doesn't want to be.

Zelda was always considered an "action RPG," because it allowed weapons, magic and equipment upgrades and, sometimes, experience points, in addition to quite a bit of NPC interaction, without taking away the element of the player's skill in combat. The designers also decided that the combat shouldn't be insufferably boring.

 

[natster43]

Dead Island has different types of enemies. Walkers, Infected, Thugs, Rams, Floaters, Suiciders, and people with guns. Though the only strategy really needed would be "Throw shit at them until they were dead". It has already been said why there is less variety in this thread, it is due to "Realism" and budgeting.

 

[Felstaff]

I mean having to develop strategies for each enemy

I see what you mean. Take Half-Life 2, for instance; you wouldn't take down the chopper in the same way you would a barnacle. i.e. throw an explosive barrel at its tongue, then shoot the barrel, as... well, helicopters don't have tongues. Similarly, using a missile launcher to take out a single barnacle would be an inefficient use of ammunition (i.e. you'd only have a few bullets to take out the helicopter when it came, and you'd rue the day you wasted your missiles on blithering barnacles)

However, games--well, Doom Clones--in this decade at least have been more focused on weapon intensity than weapon variation. Sure, you can get shinier, more accurate machine guns/missile launchers, but otherwise they're still point 'n' shoot devices that are employed at lowering generic HP, than performing specific disabling manoeuvres. Fallout and its V.A.T.S system has attempting to rectify this by allowing you to target specific parts of the enemy's body, but still it's more likely you'll pump all projectiles into the dude's head. The variation of the enemy is a strong plus point; you'd shoot an ant's antennae to make it attack other ants instead of you, and you'd take out a Super Mutant a lot easier by crippling its minigun-totin' arm so its only weapon would be an erstwhile harmless nailboard. Splinter Cell, also, whilst not having a particularly wide variation of enemies (basically, "humans with funny accents"), has a wide variety of strategies you can employ to take them out.

FarCry and Crysis, too, have a broad range of enemies, and virtually unlimited strategic options in which you can employ. Do you run in, Jack Bauer stylee, all guns blazing? Or take the Tenchu softly-softly-catchee-monkey approach? Or a bizarre combination where you sneak in, throw a hapless Korean at the corner of an unsteady shack, allowing it to collapse on the three guys inside, switch to sniper to explode the petrol tank of an idling Land Rover, killing the driver and machine-gunner, fire a blow-dart at an escaping Korean before he can raise the alarm, shotgun the approaching kamikaze soldier before he goes ape-shit on you, all before employing super-strength and lobbing a chicken 150 yards to take out the last man standing in the guard tower...?

Endless strategies.

Add to the fact the enemies range from common garden human to holy-shit-what-the-hell-is-that-giant-thing? monsters that eat allosaurs for breakfast, then you can say you've got quite the range of things to shoot.

As for non-FPS games, you've got your God of Wars, Devil May Cries, and Arkham Asylums where strategy and tactics in how you take out your enemies are all-important, even if the enemy variety is limited (in Batman, for every strategic battle with Bane you have where you have to plan your approach and time your stun attacks, there's 1000x 'generic goon'-slappin' moments). Even then, you have goon-with-fist, goon-with-pipe, goon-with-gun, and goon-with-taser variations on a theme. That's four different enemies of the same palette that require wildly different take-down approaches.

There needs to be more Kryptonite Factors in enemies; weak points, like the bosses in House of the Dead, where you've got to shoot the exposed heart of a genetically mutated lizard-hybrid-mother-in-law monster in order to make real sweet damage. Handily, the game (as I recall) showed you a fancy diagramme with a "SHOOT HERE, EEJIT!" red circle and arrow, pointing at said exposed heart.

Ah, here we are:
http://images.wikia.com/houseofthedead/images/4/40/Hangedman_boss.jpg
"Weak Point: The, Uh, The Whole Thing I Guess? Don't Shoot The Wings!"

 

[ChupathingyX]

Reistance:
Hybrids
Leapers
Grims
Chameleons
Titans
Furies
Trollpwner Edit: Furries? OH GOD NOOOOO!
Patrol Drone
Hunter Drone
Attack Drone

Yeah, that's nice, but I'd like an explanation or video of how they play differently. I mean, Painkiller Overdose had different looking enemies, they just ran at you.

BTW, it's not "being an ass". It's demanding that someone actually give a reasoned arguement instead of insisting that their opinions change the world.

Hybrids:
They're the avergae foot soldier of the Chimera, they're ranged and have avergae health. You can tackle them however you like.

Leapers:
Smal, weak enemies that swarm you in large groups, you are required to be quick and constantly keep moving, using fast firing weapons and shotguns to destroy them quickly before they surround you. They can attack you either from the ground or from walls and ceilings.

Grims:
Similar to leapers but they are stronger, have more health and can attack from nowhere with little warning. They come out of cocoons, some of which are ready to pop and send a grim out to kill you, some of which are not. Low caliber weapons aren't going to do much, you need something that will kill them almost instantly or they will surround and kill you. The splicer weapon is extremely effective as it can cut through multiple grims and deal lots of damage.

Chameleons:
Invisible enemies that strke and kill you in one hit, no matter the difficulty. They wait in certain areas until you pass by, then they begin to charge at you, the only warning being a tremor and a shimmer in the bushes. The best weapon to use would be a shotgun because if you miss when they jump and strike you...you're dead.

Titans:
Big, hulking enemies that slowly walk towards you while firing a giant flamethrower weapon. They are barely ever faultered by weapons which means you have to give it all you've got until it's dead, if it gets within proximity it will swipe you dealing massive amounts of damage.

Furies:
Aquatic Chimera that lurk around in the water. They patrol areas with water and usually you need to swim through said water to get to your next objective, meaning you have to watch their pattern and swim when the coast (no pun intended) is clear as they will try to get you as soon as you enter the water. They cannot be killed from the surface and will devour you instantly.

Patrol drone:
Small drones that fly around and keep shooting at the player with a bullseye type weapon. To take them out you need be accurate and quick as they will outnumber you very quickly. Melee and close range weapons are not a good choice against them.

Hunter drone:
Bigger, badder version of the patrol drones, these things will fly around and look for exposed areas in your cover, which means you need to take them out fast with a strong, fast firing weapon.

Attack drone:
Even bigger than the hunters, these have shields and missiles. The machine gun will wear you down, and if you hide the missiles will seek you out. The shield needs to be destroyed first then you take it down for good. Very strong weapons or a lot of bullets are needed to destroy these.

Also, another enemy worth mentioning are the Steelheads, hybrid variants that use the Auger, a weapon which can shoot through walls. This requires you to take them out quickly as there is literally no hiding from them at all.

 

[Vkmies]

There are still alot of games with varied enemies. And the Doom 3 days still had the problem of most games not having a very colourfull roster of enemies. And I find these "what happened to"-questions very entertaining. Doom 3 was what, 6 years ago? 7? Let's look a little bit more backwards. Only the prime of the prime had the best roster of enemies. Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Kirby. Other games? Prettty much as colourful as today. I see a problem here, though, since we clearly have the technology to fix this issue.

 

[Necron_warrior]

I mean having to develop strategies for each enemy

I see what you mean. Take Half-Life 2, for instance; you wouldn't take down the chopper in the same way you would a barnacle. i.e. throw an explosive barrel at its tongue, then shoot the barrel, as... well, helicopters don't have tongues. Similarly, using a missile launcher to take out a single barnacle would be an inefficient use of ammunition (i.e. you'd only have a few bullets to take out the helicopter when it came, and you'd rue the day you wasted your missiles on blithering barnacles)

However, games--well, Doom Clones--in this decade at least have been more focused on weapon intensity than weapon variation. Sure, you can get shinier, more accurate machine guns/missile launchers, but otherwise they're still point 'n' shoot devices that are employed at lowering generic HP, than performing specific disabling manoeuvres. Fallout and its V.A.T.S system has attempting to rectify this by allowing you to target specific parts of the enemy's body, but still it's more likely you'll pump all projectiles into the dude's head. The variation of the enemy is a strong plus point; you'd shoot an ant's antennae to make it attack other ants instead of you, and you'd take out a Super Mutant a lot easier by crippling its minigun-totin' arm so its only weapon would be an erstwhile harmless nailboard. Splinter Cell, also, whilst not having a particularly wide variation of enemies (basically, "humans with funny accents"), has a wide variety of strategies you can employ to take them out.

FarCry and Crysis, too, have a broad range of enemies, and virtually unlimited strategic options in which you can employ. Do you run in, Jack Bauer stylee, all guns blazing? Or take the Tenchu softly-softly-catchee-monkey approach? Or a bizarre combination where you sneak in, throw a hapless Korean at the corner of an unsteady shack, allowing it to collapse on the three guys inside, switch to sniper to explode the petrol tank of an idling Land Rover, killing the driver and machine-gunner, fire a blow-dart at an escaping Korean before he can raise the alarm, shotgun the approaching kamikaze soldier before he goes ape-shit on you, all before employing super-strength and lobbing a chicken 150 yards to take out the last man standing in the guard tower...?

Endless strategies.

Add to the fact the enemies range from common garden human to holy-shit-what-the-hell-is-that-giant-thing? monsters that eat allosaurs for breakfast, then you can say you've got quite the range of things to shoot.

As for non-FPS games, you've got your God of Wars, Devil May Cries, and Arkham Asylums where strategy and tactics in how you take out your enemies are all-important, even if the enemy variety is limited (in Batman, for every strategic battle with Bane you have where you have to plan your approach and time your stun attacks, there's 1000x 'generic goon'-slappin' moments). Even then, you have goon-with-fist, goon-with-pipe, goon-with-gun, and goon-with-taser variations on a theme. That's four different enemies of the same palette that require wildly different take-down approaches.

There needs to be more Kryptonite Factors in enemies; weak points, like the bosses in House of the Dead, where you've got to shoot the exposed heart of a genetically mutated lizard-hybrid-mother-in-law monster in order to make real sweet damage. Handily, the game (as I recall) showed you a fancy diagramme with a "SHOOT HERE, EEJIT!" red circle and arrow, pointing at said exposed heart.

Ah, here we are:
http://images.wikia.com/houseofthedead/images/4/40/Hangedman_boss.jpg
"Weak Point: The, Uh, The Whole Thing I Guess? Don't Shoot The Wings!"

This.
You, sir, have made my monday
That House Of The Dead picture put a great smile on my face (although your mention of Hierophant did not - god I hate pirahnas)

With your farcry and crysis I'll need to play these sometime, (although I'd like my computer to not die with crysis ) the amount of tactical options sounds very nice.
http://images.wikia.com/houseofthedead/images/4/41/Hotd3guide_curien.jpg D: But wheeeere??

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

Tickers are those little ant like things that run up to you and that explode on you, games like space marine blatantly ripped this off

Except that it's the other way around. Warhammer 40k has been around for over 20 years, so the tickers are ripped off from bomb squigs, not the other way around. In fact, you could say that gears of war itself is ripped off from Warhammer 40k. Those big muscleheads you play as? Space marines. The locust? Orks. Lancer? Chainsword. And so on.

Right! Now that that's out of the way! Let's talk enemies.

Honestly, there still is some enemy variety in recent games. Bastion had quite a bit of enemy variety, so did Magicka, and so did Terraria. Or how about Bioshock and Bioshock 2? Those had quite a few different enemies.

Still, it isn't exactly a mind-blowing amount of different enemies, that all actually fight differently, and have to be fought differently. I'd like to see more of that.

surely we derailed the discussion

Also well in thought yes, in gameplay no to your post (cause space marine was the first warhammer game to be had in such a genre as far as I know)

 

[psychodynamica]

They are in the same place as imaginative settings, funky art style and many of it's former comrades. Gaming hell (A.K.A indie genre.)