What is being homophobic?

[101flyboy]

You don't have the right to flaunt your homophobia around. It's not protected by any law.

I would say freedom of speech kind of covers that. He may not be able to incite violence towards gays but he can damn well express his disgust towards certain displays of affection between gays.

Actually, you can be arrested for harassment in doing things like this. Going out of your way to disparage people publicly. Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from responsibility of said speech.

 

[101flyboy]

I probably won't puke or anything if I see two guys kissing as I've watched some local theater productions in my own university that features two guys kissing. A bit unnerved but not necessarily a violent reaction of "God that was awful and unnatural!" If I see two or more guys having sex then that's probably my limit.

I don't have anything against homosexuality. I just don't like seeing two guys having sex.

On a side note, my professor in experimental psychology once cited an experiment where they showed straight heterosexuals videos of homosexuals to see if they'd get aroused. Most did, the implication being that the simple act of seeing two people sex (being a voyeur) arouses people despite their own feelings or cognitions.

I do agree that the word homphobia should be reserved for people who have prejudices against the LGBT community and that people who just feel weird and doesn't do anything to infringe on a homo's (somebody said it ain't a slur that it's just short for homosexual) rights to express love is just someone who doesn't feel comfortable with seeing two or more people of the same sex do the deed.

You do not get to decide what homophobia means. Homophobia is an irrational fear of, aversion towards and/or discrimination/hatred against homosexuality/homosexuals.

You're doing the same exact thing that virtually every other poster here who has said they have issue with two guys kissing. And that is turning it into sex. There is nothing sexual regarding two guys kissing. There is absolutely no way to even see two guys having sex in such a vivid, graphic way unless you're looking at porn.

When you and others make the leap from same-sex kissing=sex, you're projecting your own insecurities and internalized issues, whatever they may be, against homosexuality, towards innocent acts such as kissing. That's what projective disgust is in a nutshell.

 

[101flyboy]

It's more about how you act I think. You can't force yourself to be okay with stuff that you don't like. Can't be done.

Oh really? Is that why several posters in this very thread have said they used to feel major discomfort and disgust against homosexuality, and now do not?

 

[101flyboy]

Dude, no. It is not normal to be disgusted by two men kissing. That's a phobia. Just like you might have a phobia of eating tomatoes, you have a phobia of gay men. Phobias aren't just born from thin air, they are based on traumas. The large majority of homophobics get their trauma from social conditioning making them think same-gender sex is evil and wrong ie homophobia is based on fear and hate. There may be a few cases where the trauma comes from somewhere else, like for example sexual molestation, but they are much rarer than the majority of homophobics who were just taught to be repulsed by homosexuality. If one has been socially conditioned into homophobia, they should grow the fuck up and start deciding for themselves what is disgusting, not what society tells you is. If you don't want to accept this then whatever but at least take a word of advice and don't share this opinion of yours with others if you don't want to look like an asshole.

It's not a phobia. I am not TERRIFIED of homosexuals, I just find discomfort in witnessing two men engage in sexually charged affection.

The tomato example was based upon the texture of tomatoes giving someone the jeebies. Then, upon seeing someone else bite into a tomato they would recollect the sensation and again have those same jeebies.

This isn't even an opinion I would just tell people out of the blue. It is the topic of the damn thread since the OP asked a question on it.

There is something wrong when you keep bringing up sex when no-one else brings it up. Are you not able to see what you're saying, do you completely lack awareness? Do you realize you're making the point everyone is trying to tell you with every single post you make?

 

[101flyboy]

snip

You're blowing things I say WAAY out of proportion.

I don't think homosexuality is wrong.

When did I say that?

Don't put words in my mouth.

You're demonizing me and playing victim again and I refuse to argue with you if you're going to do that.

Do you think homosexuality is unnatural? Yes. Do you think it's abnormal? Yes. I didn't say you find it morally wrong but you do seem to find it conceptually wrong and went as far as to say you could find sources to back that up. Now you're playing victim. Typical, typical. I'm not falling for it.

 

[101flyboy]

[Nothing shallow about it. People like different things. They are just as entitled to like what they want to like as I am entitled to dislike what I dislike.

You're entitled to dislike homosexuality, and others are entitled to label you homophobic in doing so.

 

[101flyboy]

If you are grossed out by the thought of kissing someone who is the same sex as you, you are a heterosexual.

If you feel that the sight of two men or two women kissing is something young children should not be allowed to see, but it would be okay for them to see a man and a woman kissing, you might be a homophobe.

If you feel awkward when two homosexuals display their affections for each other publicly, you're a heterosexual.

If you feel angry in that situation, or physically sick, you might be a homophobe.

If you can talk to a homosexual person without constantly thinking about their sexual orientation, you're a heterosexual.

If you don't want to be in the same room with a homosexual, possibly because you're worried about "catching the gay", you might be a homophobe.

That help?

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards and/or discrimination/hatred against homosexuality/homosexuals.

Your examples aren't quite right. Being anti-gay and being homophobic are similar but not the same things. Many aren't anti-gay but definitely homophobic.

A fair point. I'll admit, I wasn't really thinking about the distinction between those two when I wrote this.

It's OK, and totally understandable. Homophobe has become a catch phrase and reflexive for people to use as a means to label anyone who is anti-gay. But it's often misapplied, it's become too politicized, and many people don't even know what it means. Many people who are anti-gay will willingly associate with gay people, have no problem with same-sex kissing. Will open their businesses to same-sex couples. Yet think homosexuality is a sin, is wrong, is unnatural and disagree with marriage equality. They're not homophobic in the traditional "this freaks me out" sense. Being freaked out by same-sex kissing is homophobia in a nutshell. Anti-gays are often times, usually, homophobic too, but not always.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

snip

According to wikipedia "Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, and may be based on irrational fear."

Basically any kind of negative attitude against non-heterosexual people (as it includes the whole LGBT spectrum) based on the sole reason they are non-heterosexual. I see many people are confused what homophobia actually entails, so I figured I'd post the definition.

 

[101flyboy]

For the record, hatred of gay people should NOT be called "homophobia".
"Phobia" is Greek for "fear", not "hatred".

The term should be something more like "homoéchthra" "échthra"="hatred" in Greek. THAT would be hatred/enmity/animosity toward gay people.
(No, that's not an actual term AFAIK, and it's probably not even properly formatted Greek, for all I know.)
Just sayin', "phobia" doesn't mean hate, just fear, and "échthra" means hate/animosity/enmity/etc, which is what people often mean when they say "homophobia"

Most people with arachnophobia, for example are far to busy being terrified of spiders to hate them. They may "hate: spider in the sense that they clearly don't like them, but even thinking about them provokes feelings of fear, not feelings of the feelings of anger/rage/malice required for hate. Their urge to kill a spider is not because they hate it and therefore want it dead, but rather that they do not feel safe while it is alive, and therefore they want it dead.

Important distinctions, I feel.
*shrug*

Good points! That's why the term for hatred/dislike/etc. of homosexuality should be anti-gay, not homophobe. Not all homophobes are anti-gay. However I do think a large majority of anti-gays are homophobic.

I'm especially weird.

- I treat all people the same. Don't remotely care if a guy is gay, as long as I don't have to witness it.
- My best friend is slightly bi, and (I think) attracted to me to some degree.
- My quasi-girlfriend is slightly bi.
- I'm only ever attracted to women.
- Lesbians together is barely more attractive to me than whichever of the two is hotter on her own would be...unless they're both just -ridiculously- hot. Then it's AWESOME.
- Guys kissing and stuff weirds me right the hell out. Can't comfortably stand it if it's anything other than real brief.
- I think male junk is hot.

Those last two put together throw me for a loop.
I don't really know how to make sense of that.
*shrug*

Like....if there was a hermaphrodite that was outright a natural woman aside from having a penis, I'd be 100% okay with that.
Transexual guys are not any more okay with me than regular guys. I can still tell it's a guy and it weirds me right the hell out if they're doing stuff together or with a regular guy.
.
.
So in a sense, I have a sort of very specific homophobia (an irrational aversion, but NOT hate, for genetic males sexually/overly intimately interacting), but in all other aspects I either don't care or think it's great (yay lesbians and male junk?!).
.
.
.
I gave up trying to understand myself. I'm a living contradiction.
*shrug*

How old are you? You don't have to tell me your exact age but you seem young to me. Like you're finding yourself. You also are clearly an open-minded guy. You'll get over your discomfort, I'm sure. You still have to grow and understand and embrace yourself before you can completely understand and embrace what you find uncomfortable right now. It's alright. You're honest about your feelings all-around and that's the first step.

 

[101flyboy]

According to wikipedia "Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, and may be based on irrational fear."

Basically any kind of negative attitude against non-heterosexual people (as it includes the whole LGBT spectrum) based on the sole reason they are non-heterosexual. I see many people are confused what homophobia actually entails, so I figured I'd post the definition.

That's a very good description of what homophobia is. I tend to just use the websters definition or the definition that APA has regarding homophobia. This one is a lot more encompassing and detailed. So I guess making a distinction between being homophobic vs being anti-gay is redundant. In hindsight, that's pretty obvious, in fact. Being anti-gay in itself is being homophobic.

 

[101flyboy]

And evolution doesn't say you must do anything, i agree there. However nature dictates that if everyone were gay the species would go extinct and unless you assume that is what nature intended than obviously homosexuality is not a natural (as in "naturally intended") behavior.

Given that the "if everyone were gay" theory is a fallacious argument, your entire point becomes more or less void. Homosexuality is rampant in nature, causes no harm in itself, which makes it very much natural.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

And evolution doesn't say you must do anything, i agree there. However nature dictates that if everyone were gay the species would go extinct and unless you assume that is what nature intended than obviously homosexuality is not a natural (as in "naturally intended") behavior.

Given that the "if everyone were gay" theory is a fallacious argument, your entire point becomes more or less void. Homosexuality is rampant in nature, causes no harm in itself, which makes it very much natural.

As I said a few pages back -

We are pretty much going in circles for like 8 pages now and it's starting to get tedious. People are too caught up in the whole evolution and "the goal of life" (philosophers have been discussing this for millennia, but every person against homosexuality has it all figured out) as if they are some omnipotent and conscious deities that DEMAND *something* from everyone and will punish us when we don't conform. That is silly and childish. The matter of fact is that as natural creatures on this earth, everything we CAN DO is natural by way of associative logic and by your definitions "nature" has ALLOWED humans and animals to be homosexual, it doesn't even matter why. It isn't hard to debunk the "unnatural" routine, but it requires more thought than "buuuuut it doesn't make babiiieeezzz waaaah". Neither does oral sex, but you don't whine about that.

And yes, OBVIOUSLY, if EVERYONE was gay and NEVER ONCE had sex with the opposite sex we would go extinct. But that isn't the case and it never will be, it's a stupid argument.

 

[101flyboy]

Like I said forced. You can however learn that people are people and not monsters stealing souls. I´m not fond of seeing 2 men kissing, It´s not something in my interests honestly. I DO know I should not make snide remarks to -and or insult- these people, even though i don´t like what i see. It's not from being dumb and thinking that gayness is a disease that spreads, no. I just don't like to see men kissing eachother. Is that a crime? I think not. If that offends you go right ahead. I don't have to like everything. I won't like everything. It's not going to change, I can't MAKE it so that I don't not like it. that's what I meant. I don't like frigging broccoli, is that something bad too? Do we need special treatment for broccoli?

*Sigh* This sounds way too defensive. Anyway, I don't like to see them kissing. Will I act? no. Will I comment? no. Will they care I don't like it? Probably not. Will they care if I call out? yes. Will i though? no.

I don't really like condoning (not that it's mentioned). I like it or I don't. There are degrees, but condoning sounds even dumber than not liking it. "Oh sure, I give you the right to snog". Is that really something I have to do? Is that helping in any shape or form? I think it would only do damage. They're just people, they can do whatever the flip they. We shouldn't tell them how to live their lives. I make no distinction between a straight or gay man, nor women. nor black or white or whatever. I treat people the same way they treat me. If you're nice, I'll be nice. If you're a d***, I'll return the favour.
The fact that the word still exists disgusts me. Homophobic. scared of gays. To loosely quote Morgan Freeman: "You're not afraid, you're just a d***". We've evolved as a species beyond the need for petty racism and stupidity. Everyone who's homophobic, xenophobic, should look at themselves first.

To avoid other mayor stuff, I don't think Homosexuality is wrong. I don't like it, but I don't think it's wrong. It's just an opinion. Like my hate for broccoli, my devotion to cake, my fondness of gaming and my interest in drawing. And my fear for the imminent zombie/robot/vampire/evildoer uprising.

So you don't think homosexuality is wrong. You just think it's not right. Which is more or less what you're saying. You're basically saying it's OK.......... but not really OK, homosexuality, it's not *truly* OK either, but you know, live and let live. It's not morally wrong but it's also not something you accept You tolerate it.

Broccoli is not a human being. Here is the problem. The problem isn't that you tolerate homosexuality. I don't give a damn, if you find homosexuality not right. I don't care because I know you're wrong. It's not an opinion-----you're just wrong. And you're entitled to be wrong. If you think homosexuality isn't really cool, that's your choice.

The problem is that people such as yourself think you deserve some sort of pat on the back for holding a negative view of homosexuality and simply being quiet about it. And deserve a pat on the back for not believing homosexuality is acceptable yet being "tolerant" enough to not impose your view on homosexual persons. That you deserve praise. That your position is somehow entitled respect.

No. It isn't. You do not get a celebration for "tolerating" human beings. You do not get praise for being "tolerant" of something that isn't an issue AT ALL. You get nothing for that. You *do* get criticism for having to talk about how tolerant you are while stating more or less you don't like homosexuality, yet thinking you're somehow radically different than the next guy who doesn't accept it. The only difference is you're silent about your lack of acceptance. You accept the fact people engage in homosexuality, you accept same-sex couples, but you're not accepting and thus you're not entitled to any congrats for SIMPLY BEING A CIVILIZED HUMAN BEING.

That doesn't make you an extraordinarily good person. Congrats. You're civil towards gay people. You don't get a medal. Ultimately, it's the people who are truly accepting that get the praise because they aren't biased.

You say you hate the word "condoning" yet that's more or less what you're doing in this post. You condone homosexuality. You say "whatever, people are going to do it, and that's their choice, I don't care, I hope they're happy." That's not acceptance. You condone it. You're saying that, fine, people do this, and that what they're going to do, but I DON'T LIKE IT. That is tolerating something in a nutshell. You seem to want to believe you're somehow different than the rest and you're not.

It is what it is. You're tolerant of homosexuality. Good for you. It doesn't make you a monster. It doesn't make you a good person or bad person. It's not ideal, and it's not something that is going to be received positively because it isn't a positive stance. You know you don't like or truly embrace homosexuality, truly accept it, and you're seemingly OK with that and don't really care about understanding why you feel that way to become truly accepting, so don't expect too much in the way of high fives for your views. You can like what you like, but human beings aren't an opinion. They're human beings. So stop comparing the love two people of the same-sex express to food.

 

[Frozengale]

Being disgusted by male on male PDA is no different then being disgusted by male on female or female on female PDA if you ask me. Homophobia does not stem from being uncomfortable with the idea of other peoples intimate and sexual lives. I'm uncomfortable with gay people making out just like I'm uncomfortable with straight people making out. I don't like to see other people's intimate relations.

I would say homophobia stems from distrust of "The Other". It's hard to relate to homosexuals on some levels because there is a difference in their preferences that is impossible for a straight person to understand. Just like a homosexual can't fully understand a straight persons preferences for the opposite gender. It's this discrepancy that leads to thinking of them as "Other" and strange. While this thought process alone is not wrong it's when we actively try to destroy or belittle someone because of this that we get to Homophobia.

It's not wrong to be uncomfortable with the idea of gay relations, or to be comfortable with the idea of lesbian relations. It's when you actively try to discourage either of those relations that you step into the boundary of Homophobia.

 

[101flyboy]

And evolution doesn't say you must do anything, i agree there. However nature dictates that if everyone were gay the species would go extinct and unless you assume that is what nature intended than obviously homosexuality is not a natural (as in "naturally intended") behavior.

Given that the "if everyone were gay" theory is a fallacious argument, your entire point becomes more or less void. Homosexuality is rampant in nature, causes no harm in itself, which makes it very much natural.

As I said a few pages back -

We are pretty much going in circles for like 8 pages now and it's starting to get tedious. People are too caught up in the whole evolution and "the goal of life" (philosophers have been discussing this for millennia, but every person against homosexuality has it all figured out) as if they are some omnipotent and conscious deities that DEMAND *something* from everyone and will punish us when we don't conform. That is silly and childish. The matter of fact is that as natural creatures on this earth, everything we CAN DO is natural by way of associative logic and by your definitions "nature" has ALLOWED humans and animals to be homosexual, it doesn't even matter why. It isn't hard to debunk the "unnatural" routine, but it requires more thought than "buuuuut it doesn't make babiiieeezzz waaaah". Neither does oral sex, but you don't whine about that.

And yes, OBVIOUSLY, if EVERYONE was gay and NEVER ONCE had sex with the opposite sex we would go extinct. But that isn't the case and it never will be, it's a stupid argument.

Yeah, things are getting boring. It's tiring to see people more or less want to be celebrated for being a civilized human being, while holding an opinion that more or less states homosexuality isn't OK or acceptable. It is incredibly tiring and the defensiveness is pretty disgusting. But there clearly is little that can be said to get these posters to listen because they're defiant and feel like they're being attacked and are resistant to change.

I pity them, Abomination, Generals3, Tom. I pity guys like that. I really don't get it. When I get called out on shit from people whose opinion I respect, I always do my part to examine what is being said and do my part not to continue to make the same mistakes. These guys refuse to do so. That's why it's crucial to not allow the youth of today be so indoctrinated by homophobia, racism and other biases that they become completely incapable of any sort of self-awareness of how they're being perceived by those who have matured beyond such irrational concepts. It's not sad, it's just pathetic at this point.

 

[Luciella]

What about the fact no accredited organization believes homosexuality is abnormal? What about the fact something can be not the norm, and yet still be a normal part of society, biology, psychologically normal, physically normal. Homosexuality, is, in fact, normal. It's just not the norm.

There is a problem with that, im probably wrong but "normal" is the word used to describe things that are the "norm". The root comes from there you see?

Now, acceptance OF homosexuality is abnormal, yes. If you would have said that, you would have been correct. Homosexuality in society itself is NOT abnormal but societies throughout history have been anti-gay. So within, what, 10 years, that's going to change, and it's going to be homophobia that is categorically abnormal. Social norms change throughout time. But we're discussing homosexuality in itself.

Im very curious about what you just wrote there and leads me to the following questions:

Are you homosexual/bisexual?
If you are (or not) what do you really expect from society in those 10 years, that things are going to change?

To have homophobia abolished?
To have a wider variety of men/women to flirt with?
To feel like you fit in and not be bullied about it?
To marry the love of your life that happens to be the same sex?

Out of nowhere? No. It takes time. But it's time worth taking.

Dont hold your breath. It will probably not happen in your lifetime.
See how difficult is for many men to accept women in all kinds of jobs/games as equals?
And all that has been going on for what ? 50 years or so. While women are the other 50% of the population, normal, natural, as intelligent as men and the notion of their existence has been there from the beginning of human history. And yet there is no full respect/acceptance of the fact women can do whatever job/activity they want and excel on it.

Both statements are facts, and there is nothing irrelevant about what I said. In fact the second statement, that people can procreate without engaging in sexual activity, is very relevant, due to the first point, which is that people do NOT have sex to procreate.

Sex was "invented" in this world for the sole purpose of procreation. To make sure it happens, nature decided to give its rewards if you do it, which is pleasure.
Sex is the mean to an end which is procreation. The points listed in your link are just the chemical triggers that make people have sex.
Love is a trigger as well, its so plain to talk about love as a chemical but thats what it is, a trigger to look for a partner to have babies with.
Is that really difficult to understand?
As much as any homosexual couple want a baby with genetics of both, it wont happen. NEVER. Sorry.
There is nothing wrong with adopting a child or looking for a sperm or egg bank and decide wich parent will put the other cell, but thats only posible now, with science.
But "people can procreate without engaging in sexual activity" only in vitro, and only now, not 100 years ago.

Please dont hate me for what im about to say:
My uncle is an ecologist/biologist , when i asked him if homosexuality was normal. He told me that it is indeed normal, as a sure way of nature to cripple down overpopulation of one species.

 

[101flyboy]

Being disgusted by male on male PDA is no different then being disgusted by male on female or female on female PDA if you ask me. Homophobia does not stem from being uncomfortable with the idea of other peoples intimate and sexual lives. I'm uncomfortable with gay people making out just like I'm uncomfortable with straight people making out. I don't like to see other people's intimate relations.

There is a major difference, however, between your perfectly reasonable position (some people have different standards/levels of intimacy they can handle and that's OK) and the inconsistent positions that those such as the OP and a handful of others have in this thread. One is a position based on taste, and the other is based on bias.

I would say homophobia stems from distrust of "The Other". It's hard to relate to homosexuals on some levels because there is a difference in their preferences that is impossible for a straight person to understand. Just like a homosexual can't fully understand a straight persons preferences for the opposite gender. It's this discrepancy that leads to thinking of them as "Other" and strange. While this thought process alone is not wrong it's when we actively try to destroy or belittle someone because of this that we get to Homophobia.

Very good point............but there is one thing that needs to be remembered. Gay people don't make threads on forum after forum detailing how gross they think heterosexuality is. We don't go out of our way to turn our heads when an opposite-sex couple is kissing. In fact a major percentage of us have had sex with the opposite sex as we experimented and grew to find ourselves and realize that it didn't interest us. Lesbian women aren't making threads about how they are tolerant of heterosexuality, don't *really* accept it, but can act like a civilized human being because they're ever so respectful.

There is a clear double standard. It's not simply "the other" that creates homophobia. It's, flat out, a dislike/hatred/fear of what these homophobic conceive of homosexuality. There are too many straight people, as this thread attests to, that don't have these biases and at most slight discomfort given they aren't used to seeing two people of the same-sex kiss. There are too many straight people without these biases to give those with them a free pass.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

As much as any homosexual couple want a baby with genetics of both, it wont happen. NEVER. Sorry.

Actually -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_egg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sperm

And science is almost there to make it happen for humans as well.