What makes Dark Souls "good"?

[AwkwardTurtle]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *Wipes away tears of laughter*

*Sigh* Oh nerd deity. That sentence made me laugh so hard.

Well...
4. It's fun, duh.

HA! I finally found a reason to quote you!

Indeed it is a fun game. I feel like a game doesn't need any other justification for existence other than the fact that someone somewhere can look another person in the face and say "It's fun" with a straight face.

 

[Sozac]

Though I haven't played much of it, so far I've enjoyed it and was the main game I was playing before my little brother nicked the HDMI cable for the 360 and now I can't use it until he fetches it back. One thing I'm hating though is the community, to quote a fellow on the front page.

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

Yeah, these (These not being Mr Somewhere... Want to clear that one up as it does seem I'm insulting you) pretentious dicks seem to fill the community. I'm sorry, I might be a little harsh there but when I go watch a review of the game or read about it, the place is filled with comments on "The game isn't hard, I found it almost too easy, you're all just pussified by modern games holding your hands all the time blah, blah... often going on for a few paragraphs and jumping through more logic holes than this tired Brit can find metaphor for" I just read them and constantly shaking my head and thinking to myself "Shut up you dick, I grew up on the SNES, I know what hard and unforgiving is... I'd rather we not go back to that time thanks".

That said, no gaming community is perfect so probably can't complain much. Maybe I've just came across the bad eggs in my travels, the majority here don't seem to be like that.

As for the game itself, I've just finished the bell tower bit and killed the demon thing in that small area where the dogs spawn, can't remember the name of it (Edit: The Capra Demon, Thanks Sozac. SO not too far into it but so far enjoyed it and I hope to play more when I can get the 360 back.

Yeah, the game is hard, I'm not going to beat around the bush on that one. Its difficult. However what I will grant this game is that its one of the few games that have true difficulty. What I mean by that is, its not artificial difficulty, its not difficult to the point that you can see the computer is blatantly cheating. A lot of games when you put them at their hardest, the computer just simply cheats, you get next to no health and they take a year to go down, can do things they shouldn't, the odds are so stacked against you, its almost unplayable.

Here, no its hard, but (as so many people have cited to the point that I'll sound like a parrot) it really is fair about it. When you die, its not cause the computer screwed you or the controls were fliniky, no its more often than not your own fault. You did something wrong, even if its something tiny or just a minor mistake, this game doesn't fuck around, its not very forgiving in the combat, screwing up can result in you being sent back to the campfire soulless.

The big exception to this is the camera and sometimes, it can be a little messy and it can result in you falling off of a high platform. However, for the most part its not too much of an hassle.

The combat is fun, its precise, its meaty, its got flow and again its consistent and fair. Admittedly there can be a little trouble with the lock on feature but mostly its not too bad.

I will admit to this though, the game is pretty poor when it comes to giving you a sense of direction. I know some have lampshaded this as them wanting to have you explore and other stuff but honestly I just think its bad game design. I'm not after hand holding but an hint on where I'm supposed to be going would be nice so I don't end up wasting my time going where I shouldn't only for me to get killed. After ringing the first bell and getting back to the starting area, I had no idea where to go from there so I went to the Catacombs and just ended up dying a lot. Wasn't until a while after that where I ended up where I am now and even so, I'm still not sure if I'm supposed to be here.

The game doesn't really lend itself well to freeroaming, I can admire the game for giving us a sense of freedom but I think I'd rather it meet us halfway.

Also, I haven't grasped the story yet, apparently its really subtle and were supposed to find it ourselfs... Which is a good take on it however it would be nice to have a little context to your actions, so far all I know is that I'm a dude that's escaped from an undead prison and I should ring some bells and kill some gargoyles. Think they went a little too extreme in one direction here and again some middle ground would be nice, give us the basics and let us delve deeper into this world if we like.

Then again, I'm not far into it and maybe it opens up later, I don't know.

Ho, what I am liking is the looting, the leveling system and the creature design, though I'll save that for another time as I'm sure I've already talked the heads off here and this tired Brit isn't getting any more awake .

I like what you have to say Sovvolf. I don't think anyone reading this, after having played the game, can deny these points.

Also, I gotta admit, that in this thread multiple times I say this game wasn't hard and that's wrong. Its just compared to certain parts which spike the difficulty to an unfair extreme the normal game is smooth, and once you get a handle on the controls and the attack patterns of old enemies that trounced you before, you can breeze through them. I also, say I think Dead Rising is harder and I still stick to that, but its not that much harder, and neither of the games are easy (unless you want it to be in dead rising's case).

Also, hate to say it, but it keeps getting bigger, but at least you get a warp power which really comes in handy. I'm at that point too were there are at least 5 directions I can go with 3 being mandatory sooner or later and 2 being optional.

 

[Burst6]

I have to say, that's actually pretty cool and all the dickish things some characters do make sense, but does that mean your character never actually wanted to relight the kiln. He never shows motivations. I mean I sort of want to relight the kiln even if I knew my guy would die, just for the self-sacrifice of a hero. However, i don't know which is worse and for whom it is worse for, when it comes to the dark times or the age of fire.

[/spoiler]

<spoiler= a bit more spoilers>

What your character wants is what you want. It's one of those games where you are your character.

I think the only motivation you would have at the start is that you're now undead. If you just stand around doing nothing, you would go insane and turn into one of those hostile hollows. It's something to do, so why not. It keeps the insanity away.

Afterwards the motivation is pretty much up to you and how you feel about what happens.

And age of fire vs age of darkness is pretty much a grey area. You don't know which one is better.

Relight the kiln and the world is ruled by Gwyndolin and the remaining lords (there are other lords out there, like Velka goddess of sin for example) until the age of fire starts to fade again. Then what's happening in the game now will happen again. Become dark lord and the lords get the same treatment the dragons got, and humans take over with you as leader.

This is one of those games that has forum topics dedicated to theories about the story.
[/spoiler]

 

[Hamish Durie]

you might die in another game due to dodgy camera or the controls messed up or sonic jumped in a completely different direction then where u wanted him to.
every death in demons souls is because of you the game is perfect your not.....and i love it

 

[Sozac]

I have to say, that's actually pretty cool and all the dickish things some characters do make sense, but does that mean your character never actually wanted to relight the kiln. He never shows motivations. I mean I sort of want to relight the kiln even if I knew my guy would die, just for the self-sacrifice of a hero. However, i don't know which is worse and for whom it is worse for, when it comes to the dark times or the age of fire.

[/spoiler]

<spoiler= a bit more spoilers>

What your character wants is what you want. It's one of those games where you are your character.

I think the only motivation you would have at the start is that you're now undead. If you just stand around doing nothing, you would go insane and turn into one of those hostile hollows. It's something to do, so why not. It keeps the insanity away.

Afterwards the motivation is pretty much up to you and how you feel about what happens.

And age of fire vs age of darkness is pretty much a grey area. You don't know which one is better.

Relight the kiln and the world is ruled by Gwyndolin and the remaining lords (there are other lords out there, like Velka goddess of sin for example) until the age of fire starts to fade again. Then what's happening in the game now will happen again. Become dark lord and the lords get the same treatment the dragons got, and humans take over with you as leader.

This is one of those games that has forum topics dedicated to theories about the story.
[/spoiler]

That's one way to do the story. I personally like that game that seriously get into lore like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. However, the way they do it in Dark Souls is pretty ingenious (intentional or not), because by giving a limited view of things it leaves more room for the imagination. Also, not saying a lot makes it so they can't contradict themselves. That being said, it would be nice to get a little motivation by the story by letting me know what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel tricked in the end for actually wanting to keep the age of fire because I don't even know what that means for me. Also, I don't understand enemies motives. Why are a Dragonslayer and an Executioner just waiting for me in the Hall of the Gods? What are they doing there? I mean a lot of these will never be explained or even acknowledged. It could have been as simple as Gwynboobs saying "Sorry about my servants." Yet, she didn't so that just leaves me confounded. They could've been a couple on their honeymoon for all I know. This is one of those things my imagination can't really think up an answer to. Even if they were servants, why would it matter that one is a Dragonslayer and one is an executioner.

 

[Burst6]

That's one way to do the story. I personally like that game that seriously get into lore like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. However, the way they do it in Dark Souls is pretty ingenious (intentional or not), because by giving a limited view of things it leaves more room for the imagination. Also, not saying a lot makes it so they can't contradict themselves. That being said, it would be nice to get a little motivation by the story by letting me know what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel tricked in the end for actually wanting to keep the age of fire because I don't even know what that means for me. Also, I don't understand enemies motives. Why are a Dragonslayer and an Executioner just waiting for me in the Hall of the Gods? What are they doing there? I mean a lot of these will never be explained or even acknowledged. It could have been as simple as Gwynboobs saying "Sorry about my servants." Yet, she didn't so that just leaves me confounded. They could've been a couple on their honeymoon for all I know. This is one of those things my imagination can't really think up an answer to. Even if they were servants, why would it matter that one is a Dragonslayer and one is an executioner.

The idea is that most things in that land have gone crazy and hollow, and that's pretty much the only reason they're still there.

Spoiler

Everything in anor londo is either hollow, or in some other monstrous form. Gwynevere is just an illusion set up by Gwyndolin because he turned into some sort of monster. The real Gwynevere ran away a long time ago. The fire keeper is also hiding her form under that armor.

The only exception to this would be the giant blacksmith. I don't know his story.

Anyway it makes sense that Ornstein and Smough would be in anor londo. Smough is an executioner, and they tend to stay close to the people they work for so they can do their job.

Ornstein, on the other hand, was one of Gwyn's four elite knights (with Artorias, Gough, and Ciaran). He's called dragonslayer because all the four knight have a fancy name, like Artorias the Abysswalker, Hawkeye Gough, and Lord's Blade Ciaran.


The game only involves two of the knights (Ornstein and Artorias), but you can get all their special rings that tell you a bit about them. Also fun fact. They wanted to make Smough a knight like his friend Ornstein, but they didn't because he kept crushing the bones of those he executed and using the dust as spice.

 

[tokae]

He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games.

Ask him in what way Super Ghouls and Ghosts held my hand! Ask him in what bloody way Battletoads held my hand!
"Old-school" games where friggin hard, but really, reeeeaaaaally good.

Anyways, back to topic.
Dark Souls just recently caught my attention. Never enjoyed the first DS but something about Dark Souls brought out the little masochist living within me. I have spent the majority of my time in the game dying, but that makes the occasional mastering of a technique and leap forwards in the game so much sweeter.. I enjoy a good challenge, sure it's overwhelming at times, but when you pull through against all odds.. There isn't much that beats that feeling.
The story in the game.. Well, if your imagination is usually working overtime, like mine, then it's really great.. But that may be because I myself fill it up..

 

[Joby Baumann]

the difficulty is such that when you beat a boss or hard foe, you feel like a total badass

 

[InvisibleMan]

I do love the game, it's probably going to be my favorite of 2011. Having said that, I admit it is kind of a "niche" game, and it will only be enjoyed by a small portion of gamers. Is it hard? Sure, but not in a frustrating way. It is hard in that it combines dexterity and problem-solving in a profound way that other games kind of just take a passing interest in. Lacks story? Of course! That is on purpose, though: it exists in a kind of "open world" that lets you fill in the blanks with your own imagination, much like a gallery. Not because it is being lazy but because it wants you to do role-playing in the deepest sense of the term.

I often compare this game with the Etrian Odyssey series on the DS. Yep, these are turn-based RPG games with no animation, but the way your characters level up and the choices you make and how the challenges make you have to re-think your decisions are very similar. And, again, those are also very "niche" games that will delight only a small portion of gamers. If this are the type of games you enjoy, Dark Souls is the best you are going to find!

 

[Ordinaryundone]

So it is as if I am a random undead who just so happens to be the Chosen Undead of legend and everyone in the world, but you seems to know what that means. While it is clear that the Chosen Undead is destined to be the new king, there is no explination why it has to be an undead. Why doesn't Dark Sun Gwyndelin claim the thrown. He is one of Gwyn's children and doesn't seem to be as evil as Gwyn. I still don't even know why Gwyn is evil. From the opening cutscene, all I remember was a bunch of future bosses got together and killed most of the dragons. Also, I don't know why the dragons were so good. They seemed pretty evil, at least the ones I run into are. Just face it, the "story" is just a huge gaping plothole.

Big spoilers ahead

Spoiler

You aren't actually the chosen undead. You're actually the Dark Lord.

A few centuries before the game started, the age of fire was going away. Humans, who are supposed to come with the age of darkness, started appearing. This scared the shit out of Gwyn, so he ordered his children to control the humans. He then went off, only taking his clothes, his sword, and a couple hundred of his knights. He used himself as fuel to relight the kiln, and keep the age of fire going for a while.

He also planned to make the dark lord, who's supposed to bring on the age of darkness, sacrifice him/herself to prevent the age of darkness by relighting the kiln again when it died out. He convinced kingseeker frampt to trick you.

At the end if you relight the kiln you get burned as fuel. If you just walk away, you claim your right as dark lord.

I have to say, that's actually pretty cool and all the dickish things some characters do make sense, but does that mean your character never actually wanted to relight the kiln. He never shows motivations. I mean I sort of want to relight the kiln even if I knew my guy would die, just for the self-sacrifice of a hero. However, i don't know which is worse and for whom it is worse for, when it comes to the dark times or the age of fire.

[/spoiler]

Spoiler: Dark Soul's theorizing

Like most things in Dark Soul's, it's never really made clear one way or the other. Even the theory that the Chosen Undead is The Dark Lord/Furtive Pygmy is delivered by a blatantly evil and self-centered character, who runs a covenant based around murdering other players for their humanity. Just like Frampt, Kaathe can't really give any proof that what he says is true, and I'm sure he has his own ulterior motives for ushering in the Age of Dark.

It's generally accepted though that the both would have good and bad consequences. Reigniting the Age of Fire would reverse most of the evil and decay that the world is going through, and despite it's current appearance its plain that some pretty awesome stuff was accomplished during the first age (just check out Anor Londo). Of course, this also means that Gwyndolin and the other "gods" get to stay in charge, and given their penchant for manipulation and how far things have fallen in their care, means that the Second Age will inevitably end and the whole process will have to start anew.

Starting Age of Dark could mean a brand new world where humans are able to make their own destiny without living in the shadow of gods, perhaps even issuing in their own Age of Fire like Gwyn and the other Lords did eons ago. However, it also means that the current state of the world will persist, and despite heroes like Solaire trying their best to fight it back it will only get worse before it gets better. Who knows if humanity will be able to survive an another age of Dark?

I do have a pet theory that the Darksign was created by Gwyn specifically to groom humanity to be able to make the choice at the end, but I don't think he specifically was ordering the continuation of the age of fire (after all, he's been all but dead for centuries). The whole "Frampt goes and suckers undead into going on a pointless quest" was likely Gwyndolin's idea; likely thinking that no one would ever be able to accomplish the mission, Darksign or no. Heck, if the game ended the first time you died most people wouldn't be able to make it out of the asylum.

 

[Prince Regent]

Gameplay is good, the world is interesting and at some point you just have to see what the next boss is going to look like.

 

[xXGeckoXx]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

It is a SOLID game. That is all I can say. It is well designed aesthetically and mechanically. The game is hard but it does not feel like it is cheating. You can always make it through and the fighting mechanics are solid and well designed. First of all it appeals to a niche; make no mistake it markets it self as a tough as nails game and If you don't like that kind of game then you have no right to complain for that is subjective but there is no false advertising. It is good because it is a challenge (like portal in a way) and because it is well designed. Beyond that whether you like it or not is from there on subjective to your taste.

 

[xXGeckoXx]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

It is a SOLID game. That is all I can say. It is well designed aesthetically and mechanically. The game is hard but it does not feel like it is cheating. You can always make it through and the fighting mechanics are solid and well designed. First of all it appeals to a niche; make no mistake it markets it self as a tough as nails game and If you don't like that kind of game then you have no right to complain for that is subjective but there is no false advertising. It is good because it is a challenge (like portal in a way) and because it is well designed. Beyond that whether you like it or not is from there on subjective to your taste.

 

[Windcaler]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

I just started playing Dark souls myself, having gotten it for christmas. Its a game I probably never would have picked up myself but now that Ive played it I can see the attraction of a very old school fantasy game. Almost as if I was playing D&D with Gary Gygax as the GM. Its that unforgiving and that intricate but in a good way.

Im not very far in the game, having just rung the first bell, so maybe it changes later on but Dark souls is a game that not just encourages planning, practice, and taking your time but requires it. I can see why some gamers wouldnt like that and if that was the standard it would be a problem IMO. However Dark souls is trying to be something different from fantasy adventure games like fable, the Elder scrolls, and Dragon age. Im ok with that, variety is the spice of life after all. If everything was a cheap copy of the popular fantasy game like First person shooters seem to be right now it would just cause stagnation. With Dragon Age you have hyper detailed story and real roleplaying (good), with Elder scrolls you have huge open world exploration (also good), and with the souls series you have hyper difficult battles that require practice and planning (another good sub genre).

Now there are a couple points I agree with. The first is the story, as far as I am in the game it seems barely there and impenetrable at the same time. I havnt been able to find out any information about the characters mentioned earlier or why I should care. All I know is because I became undead I got shipped off to an asylum, some knight guy broke me out of my cell, and my escape made me wind up...where ever the firelink shrine is. Why I couldnt just take the road back to town or go off to make a cabin in the mountains I dont know...oh wait yes I do, because then it wouldnt be a grand fantasy adventure! It still bears mention though

The thing about the walkthrough idea I disagree with though. At one point there werent any walkthroughs for the game. At all. People made them as a labor of love but they arent completely necessary either. If you dont want to watch walkthroughs thats totally fine but you need to come to terms with the idea that you have to figure it all out by yourself.

Another thing I disagree with is the idea of the game cheating. I dont know how to respond to that besides saying, what were you expecting for a game thats reknowned as unforgivingly difficult? Thats the kind of game you're choosing to play and you can either accept it and play the game or stop playing. I dont agree that the game cheats but I would say the deck is stacked against the player. As to the glitchy comment, I havnt seen any bugs or glitches except for my xbox chugging while I look over scenery but I put that on the graphics limitations of current consoles rather then the game itself.

It sounds like you dont like the game and thats fine, fun is a subjective thing. If you dont like the game you're entitled to your opinion and can not play it. However the same is true for your friend. He likes the game and he wants to keep playing it, let him enjoy it and just agree to disagree

 

[Sozac]

That's one way to do the story. I personally like that game that seriously get into lore like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. However, the way they do it in Dark Souls is pretty ingenious (intentional or not), because by giving a limited view of things it leaves more room for the imagination. Also, not saying a lot makes it so they can't contradict themselves. That being said, it would be nice to get a little motivation by the story by letting me know what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel tricked in the end for actually wanting to keep the age of fire because I don't even know what that means for me. Also, I don't understand enemies motives. Why are a Dragonslayer and an Executioner just waiting for me in the Hall of the Gods? What are they doing there? I mean a lot of these will never be explained or even acknowledged. It could have been as simple as Gwynboobs saying "Sorry about my servants." Yet, she didn't so that just leaves me confounded. They could've been a couple on their honeymoon for all I know. This is one of those things my imagination can't really think up an answer to. Even if they were servants, why would it matter that one is a Dragonslayer and one is an executioner.

The idea is that most things in that land have gone crazy and hollow, and that's pretty much the only reason they're still there.

Spoiler

Everything in anor londo is either hollow, or in some other monstrous form. Gwynevere is just an illusion set up by Gwyndolin because he turned into some sort of monster. The real Gwynevere ran away a long time ago. The fire keeper is also hiding her form under that armor.

The only exception to this would be the giant blacksmith. I don't know his story.

Anyway it makes sense that Ornstein and Smough would be in anor londo. Smough is an executioner, and they tend to stay close to the people they work for so they can do their job.

Ornstein, on the other hand, was one of Gwyn's four elite knights (with Artorias, Gough, and Ciaran). He's called dragonslayer because all the four knight have a fancy name, like Artorias the Abysswalker, Hawkeye Gough, and Lord's Blade Ciaran.


The game only involves two of the knights (Ornstein and Artorias), but you can get all their special rings that tell you a bit about them. Also fun fact. They wanted to make Smough a knight like his friend Ornstein, but they didn't because he kept crushing the bones of those he executed and using the dust as spice.

You seem really up to date on the lore which is very admirable because a lot of the wiki's might as well be strategy guides. You must play this a lot and it does seem interesting and unique, but there just isn't enough for me to get interested. I do like the setting and polytheism which is always the most interesting type of religion, so it has everything I need. I just would've liked a lot of these things explained because it makes it more immersive for me. If I don't know whats going on then my character doesn't, because he is a silent protagonist. Portal and the Half Lifes are really good at this. Even playing Portal for the first time, I wasn't surprised by the twist because of the memes that came out with its release that never died. (Fun fact: when the movie Psycho came out, newspapers had headlines saying not to spoil the movie.Which more things were like that :[ ) However, just by exploring and the overall tone I could tell something was wrong and yet I guess in Dark Souls I can be tricked into doing something I wanted to do. I don't want to be Dark Lord, but right now it's sounding like the only option because lighting the kiln sounds like failure and I didn't come all this way and am not going to get to the end just to fail.

 

[Sozac]

So it is as if I am a random undead who just so happens to be the Chosen Undead of legend and everyone in the world, but you seems to know what that means. While it is clear that the Chosen Undead is destined to be the new king, there is no explination why it has to be an undead. Why doesn't Dark Sun Gwyndelin claim the thrown. He is one of Gwyn's children and doesn't seem to be as evil as Gwyn. I still don't even know why Gwyn is evil. From the opening cutscene, all I remember was a bunch of future bosses got together and killed most of the dragons. Also, I don't know why the dragons were so good. They seemed pretty evil, at least the ones I run into are. Just face it, the "story" is just a huge gaping plothole.

Big spoilers ahead

Spoiler

You aren't actually the chosen undead. You're actually the Dark Lord.

A few centuries before the game started, the age of fire was going away. Humans, who are supposed to come with the age of darkness, started appearing. This scared the shit out of Gwyn, so he ordered his children to control the humans. He then went off, only taking his clothes, his sword, and a couple hundred of his knights. He used himself as fuel to relight the kiln, and keep the age of fire going for a while.

He also planned to make the dark lord, who's supposed to bring on the age of darkness, sacrifice him/herself to prevent the age of darkness by relighting the kiln again when it died out. He convinced kingseeker frampt to trick you.

At the end if you relight the kiln you get burned as fuel. If you just walk away, you claim your right as dark lord.

I have to say, that's actually pretty cool and all the dickish things some characters do make sense, but does that mean your character never actually wanted to relight the kiln. He never shows motivations. I mean I sort of want to relight the kiln even if I knew my guy would die, just for the self-sacrifice of a hero. However, i don't know which is worse and for whom it is worse for, when it comes to the dark times or the age of fire.

[/spoiler]

Spoiler: Dark Soul's theorizing

Like most things in Dark Soul's, it's never really made clear one way or the other. Even the theory that the Chosen Undead is The Dark Lord/Furtive Pygmy is delivered by a blatantly evil and self-centered character, who runs a covenant based around murdering other players for their humanity. Just like Frampt, Kaathe can't really give any proof that what he says is true, and I'm sure he has his own ulterior motives for ushering in the Age of Dark.

It's generally accepted though that the both would have good and bad consequences. Reigniting the Age of Fire would reverse most of the evil and decay that the world is going through, and despite it's current appearance its plain that some pretty awesome stuff was accomplished during the first age (just check out Anor Londo). Of course, this also means that Gwyndolin and the other "gods" get to stay in charge, and given their penchant for manipulation and how far things have fallen in their care, means that the Second Age will inevitably end and the whole process will have to start anew.

Starting Age of Dark could mean a brand new world where humans are able to make their own destiny without living in the shadow of gods, perhaps even issuing in their own Age of Fire like Gwyn and the other Lords did eons ago. However, it also means that the current state of the world will persist, and despite heroes like Solaire trying their best to fight it back it will only get worse before it gets better. Who knows if humanity will be able to survive an another age of Dark?

I do have a pet theory that the Darksign was created by Gwyn specifically to groom humanity to be able to make the choice at the end, but I don't think he specifically was ordering the continuation of the age of fire (after all, he's been all but dead for centuries). The whole "Frampt goes and suckers undead into going on a pointless quest" was likely Gwyndolin's idea; likely thinking that no one would ever be able to accomplish the mission, Darksign or no. Heck, if the game ended the first time you died most people wouldn't be able to make it out of the asylum.

I don't get what makes Gwyndolin evil. I get that he made an illusion of his sister because she left, but I don't know why. Also, the illusion sticks around after I kill him which is weird. However, he seems intent on me not coming into that tomb which just gives him a role as protector. I'm sure I am missing something because I wasn't searching for it. I don't ever read weapon descriptions. I know I killed Havel and I have his ring and armor, but I don't know who he is. Also, I never met onionhead again and it says he is from another land. Was that land where Demon Souls took place.

 

[Sozac]

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing separating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

The fog doors are helpful because they let you know "don't come here unless you are prepared for something big", so you can explore the rest of the area and come back if need be.

I get the gameplay aspect, but they are never given context. There are many other ways you can separate it. Also, some of them just separate new areas. It isn't always big, it just sections places off and there is no explanation why.

 

[Sozac]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

I just started playing Dark souls myself, having gotten it for christmas. Its a game I probably never would have picked up myself but now that Ive played it I can see the attraction of a very old school fantasy game. Almost as if I was playing D&D with Gary Gygax as the GM. Its that unforgiving and that intricate but in a good way.

Im not very far in the game, having just rung the first bell, so maybe it changes later on but Dark souls is a game that not just encourages planning, practice, and taking your time but requires it. I can see why some gamers wouldnt like that and if that was the standard it would be a problem IMO. However Dark souls is trying to be something different from fantasy adventure games like fable, the Elder scrolls, and Dragon age. Im ok with that, variety is the spice of life after all. If everything was a cheap copy of the popular fantasy game like First person shooters seem to be right now it would just cause stagnation. With Dragon Age you have hyper detailed story and real roleplaying (good), with Elder scrolls you have huge open world exploration (also good), and with the souls series you have hyper difficult battles that require practice and planning (another good sub genre).

Now there are a couple points I agree with. The first is the story, as far as I am in the game it seems barely there and impenetrable at the same time. I havnt been able to find out any information about the characters mentioned earlier or why I should care. All I know is because I became undead I got shipped off to an asylum, some knight guy broke me out of my cell, and my escape made me wind up...where ever the firelink shrine is. Why I couldnt just take the road back to town or go off to make a cabin in the mountains I dont know...oh wait yes I do, because then it wouldnt be a grand fantasy adventure! It still bears mention though

The thing about the walkthrough idea I disagree with though. At one point there werent any walkthroughs for the game. At all. People made them as a labor of love but they arent completely necessary either. If you dont want to watch walkthroughs thats totally fine but you need to come to terms with the idea that you have to figure it all out by yourself.

Another thing I disagree with is the idea of the game cheating. I dont know how to respond to that besides saying, what were you expecting for a game thats reknowned as unforgivingly difficult? Thats the kind of game you're choosing to play and you can either accept it and play the game or stop playing. I dont agree that the game cheats but I would say the deck is stacked against the player. As to the glitchy comment, I havnt seen any bugs or glitches except for my xbox chugging while I look over scenery but I put that on the graphics limitations of current consoles rather then the game itself.

It sounds like you dont like the game and thats fine, fun is a subjective thing. If you dont like the game you're entitled to your opinion and can not play it. However the same is true for your friend. He likes the game and he wants to keep playing it, let him enjoy it and just agree to disagree

That's a good argument, also hate to say it but I was mostly referring to Blighttown. If your game is chugging now I feel sorry for you when you get here. It is like I'm playing a flip book. When I said the game was cheating, it is mostly from anything that seems to lock on for no reason. You get so used to enemies that you learn the moves for and you can dodge. Anything that locks on is usually slow and/or strafe-able. Yet, certain moments of the game they give you enemies that you know the move is coming and you can't do anything about it because the move is an always hit move, you can't parry it, and it goes through your shield. This is like Anor Londo's Bat's jumping attack which was really stupid. I was also referring to hits that go through shields not because you have a bad shield, but because that's how the attack works. Also, enemies not being able to hit other enemies is annoying. I hated this for the gargoyles and S&O because I didn't work the other way around. I accidentally hit my allies a lot because I use the black knight's halberd and my favorite magic is chaos fireball. I almost killed my ally (who was a big help wherever you are) because whatever he had on was really weak to the chaos fireball(took out half his health). Also, the biggest grate I have is invasions which is blatantly stupid. The game teaches you to not tread into areas with tough enemies, but then it has a feature to let them invade your game no matter how overleveled. This could've been fixed with some sort of level cap that allowed players to only invade someone close to their level.