What place does melee really have in shooters?

[WaywardHaymaker]

I will stand by my blatant fanboy-ism and say that Halo does it well. Especially in Reach, where even if all you have is a tiny sliver of shields it will still take the blow from melee without damaging your actual health.

It's the deal-sealer, rather than the OMGWTFBBQ Call of Duty knife.

 

[ranger19]

I think I'll echo a bunch of sentiments here: yes, MW2 is overpowered, but yes, melee is important. Especially the way it's done in Halo: if you're good enough to sneak up behind an opponent, it's only good game design to allow your kill to be instantaneous.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Halo knows what it's doing really well. I mean, CoD gives people classes and perks and unlocks and everything which is great, but then throws everyone into a map together and hopes for the best (at least for TDM). And that's great and all, but I'm looking forward to Reach's take on things, offering classes but being much more focused on what is and is not allowed.

 

[Lordmarkus]

Team Fortress 2 did this right.

Team Fortress 2 did everything right.

Amen to that.

OT: If everyone designed the melee system like Killzone 2, with gunbut and a knife that you had to equip then I'll be a happy panda.

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

what is wrong with my lounge?

 

[RobJameson]

I actually kind of disagree, melee is never 100%, I've missed, and been missed by people PLENTY of times. Ever been in a window capping a few guys further down the map, and hear a whisper of sound behind you, whip around to find some idiot trying to knife you?

That's called a failed Melee.

I think melee is extremely important, honestly. Sometimes, reloading is the difference between life and death, sometimes you simply don't have the time for the clip. So, you smash them with the butt of your rifle. Stab them with a bayonet, or knife them. It's kind of strange to think that any combat soldier, rebel, or veteran of any kind would go into battle without some kind of backup weapon (and I don't mean a side arm). Knives are not only vital if you run out of ammo, but for utility purposes also.

A knife to the spine, or heart, is no different than a bullet to the head or chest. If it doesn't kill you, it's going to seriously take you out of your gameplan.

I think your issue, is really more of a problem with FPS' in general. A lack of serious bullet/impact physics. Ever notice how there's really very little difference in a 5.56 round versus a 7.62 in games? I would personally LOVE to see them implement actual physics to bullets. But, then you run into the 'realism' problem, where everyone bitches so much because...oh my god, I can't shoot 4 miles across the screen, and so on. Realistically, they should have to arc shots beyond what, a third of a mile? Even less?

Fix those issues, and you'd probably get more of what you're looking for. As for one-shot kills with knives? Well, if it's a 5+" blade, it's got plenty of length to pierce your heart.

Well given that you are clearly shown to be wearing ballistic body armor and helmets, which are more than knife proof, I seriously doubt you could get a lethal knife wound in Modern Warfare.

Also the knife is about 4 inches long, the knife which the SAS have used to lethal effect is about 12 inches long in total and extremely sharp and pointed. It's also clear ingame that you don't stab it with any force, especially with the way you hold your knife with a tactical knife attachment. You couldn't get any leverage on that. Although knives are given to combat forces it's mainly as a survival tool and the amount of people killed by melee in modern combat is probably a decimal percentage of the total amount if not less, where as in modern games it seems like knives get about 25-50% of the kills.

Having friends who have ex special forces as acquaintances I have been told that the only places to truly guarantee an instant kill is through the ribs and into the spine or by hitting the spine and severing the nerve. The skull is hard to get through and most soldiers wear a helmet and since modern armour covers both chest and back as well as the shoulders I don't see how you could get a lethal stab.

If we're talking in terms of pure impact energy knife blows generally give single to double digits of energy whereas a 5.56 or 7.62 10-12g bullet will impart several thousands of joules of energy, not all of it will be used in impact though as the bullet will penetrate. If you a purely speaking in terms of killing power knives are massively outclassed by pistols quite easily, given that knives often occupy the same role as a pistol in modern shooters (in MW2 a knife with commando has about the same range and far more killing power) it seems like knives are massively overhyped in their damage capabilties. Using a knife is also a messy affair, it's not the 1 second quick clean stab the game shows it to be, it requires a hell of a lot of force to get it through the flesh and even then the victim will be struggling and flailing around, they aren't pretty weapons which is why they are a last resort.

In the end, look at ARMA 2 or VBS 2, these are pieces of software used by the military to train its troops (ARMA 2 is basically a retail version of VBS 2) and there is no knife or melee involved and its an infantry simulator first and foremost, and easily the most realistic out there. Knives are not combat weapons, no matter how much Hollywood and the games developers want them to be. Assault rifles tear people up and will go through multiple bodies with ease and cause severe trauma and bleeding, they are designed to wound someone horribly so that their friends watch them die and get demoralized. Knives are pretty inefficient and when a Barret M82 .50 BMG round takes multiple shots to kill in a game, yet a knife kills instantly, it's time to question the usefulness of a knife.

 

[ALuckyChance]

I don't think melee will ever be more than a 'one hit kill' button in games that almost exclusively involve shooting. Now, a game like Xeno Clash, where there was a focus on melee, but still had guns, is a different story.

 

[Googenstien]

Melee weapons 1 shotting people ruin FPS games peroid

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

So a knife to the throat/heart/head shouldn't kill someone? Well I guess it goes with the idea of taking multiple bullets to the torso and being completely fine by hiding for five seconds.

Uhm, a soldier doesn't "knife" another person in the head. The head is one of the most protected areas of the human body and the points where a knife could actually penetrate the head without significant strength behind it are really small.

As for throat/heart, the place where FPS games took a wrong turn is making it way too easy to successfully plunge a knifeblade into these areas. In real life, it is pretty hard to actually get a knife to the throat, heart or lungs even when they are unaware of your prescense. And as for targets that know where you are and that you are coming (and are armed with firearms) you simply WON'T succeed in killing them with a knife, because you wouldn't really stand a chance.

Personally, im not against melee attacks in FPS games, but they should seriously be a lot harder to pull off than one single click with a mouse button at short range, unless you manage to sneak up on someone from behind that is.

 

[Double A]

I think you fail to realize that MW2 is an unbalanced as a ball of shit. In fact, it is a ball of shit.

Team Fortress 2 does this right.

Team Fortress 2 does everything right.

I find your lack of correct grammar disturbing.

I think you just lost me.

Valve still updates TF2. :\

Also, you needed to replace "right" with "perfectly."

Perfectly is a little presumptuous don't you think? More like "super perfect, aka Ultra KEEN."

Well, I didn't want to be pushy.

 

[Mister Awesome]

i'm fine with stuff like mw2's melee, but i like TF2's melee system a lot better because people cant sprint towards you and insta kill you

 

[SilentHunter7]

*snip*

I think shooters should take a cue from Gears of War. If someone goes to melee you, and you hit the melee button before he connects, it should start a mini-game, either through button mashing, or a QTE, where one guy tries to overpower the other.

Also, I think the one-hit tactical knife should be relegated to kills from behind, where you can sneak up on someone and slit his throat. Otherwise, you should just rifle-butt him, which would just stun him.

 

[Mataocho]

I think it would be best if melee wasn't an instant knife pull but a combination of bashing an enemy, drawing weapons, and grappling, as is employed in life. So, here's my idea, you can choose whether to immediatly charge (whilst side-stepping) and club/"thwap" the enemy, grab the enemies weapon and grapple/"wrastle", or jump around the corner with a weapon drawed, either a knife (possibly with a pistol) or the main weapon. The point would be to use all of these, for exaple: I jump around the corner, stike the enemy, then I fire my weapon or knife. Or I could jump around the corner, disarm the enemy(or just push their weapon out of the way), pull out a weapon and firing on them before your enemy can fire. However, the point is to use all of these together as seen fit for hand to hand combat, of course with your enemies using that as a rock paper scissors technique.

 

[Colodomoko]

I see your point friend, let's take for example a game like serious sam: the second encounter. Tons of ranged weapons to chose from and even with the trusty shotty's there was nothing more sadistic and fun than using the chainsaw to saw enemys in half, horizantal or vertical. Heh, imagine the screams of pain as their life bar's drained away, especialy those kamikaze while you had the invincible power-up.

So you see as impractical a melee weapon might seem in a shooter its still fun as hell.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

I don't have that many problems with melee in FPS's. I mean it's not like you don't have a gun or anything to shot people with...

But the 2-yard homing lunge that kills in one hit... Yeah that's abit overpowered. Unless of course its a specific weapon that needs to be equiped (Halo's Energy Sword). Insta-killling from behind makes sense, I mean you were able to sneak up on the person so it makes sense you would get a reward for that. But meleeing to the face means that the enemy is probably aware and ready for an attack, so naturally they'll be prepared.

And as for all-around insta-kills, yes it takes several shots for you to kill me; but you can hit someone from across the map. Melee attacks can't (or at least shouldn't) do that.