Depressing story with a bunch of psycho's for supporting characters.
Seriously, every major non player's team member (and a few team members) are just batshit insane, you can spend the whole game trying to improve peoples lot, mending bridges and extending peace and friendship like its the 1960's and what happens? Anders blows up a chantry, the archmage goes bloodmage XL on you, not even the templars your helping him fight YOU and Meredith is high on some dodad you found at the start of the game and starts slinging magic around like fireworks on the 4th of july. The less said about merril's quest the better. THERE IS NO SANITY IN THIS DAMN CITY.
In my opinion, DA2 fixed the biggest problem with DA: O: The combat. It was finally fun and engaging. With this, came a lot of other changes, that left me feeling that despite great improvement to my only real criticism towards DA: O (Was still engaging, as the tactical aspect was new and original for me), the other changes made it a game, that as a whole, was less than DA: O.
The story was fun, but lacked an overall focus. It was great to hear my character talk, but with that came a sever limitation on the dialogue options. Forging a story, where my character became an important figure in the history of the universe was cool, but it ended up feeling like it wasn't MY character anymore (Hawke still feels like 'Shepherd' to me. Biowares character, not mine). Changing the equipment system to encourage player to actually play the game is a good idea, but what we got was useless armour pickup (Why not make sure only armour related to Hawke's class drops from enemies?) and a sense of detachment from the companion charters, since we can't dress them up.
I like DA2. I love it, in fact. But I think the fact that I've gone through each origin story of DA: O enough times to know them by heart, and finished the game at least twice (including the expansion), while I've only finished DA2 once, and still haven't gotten back to finish my second play-through (3rd Act), is a testament to which of them I prefer. (I still love the DA2 combat. Hopefully DA3 will be more like DA: O, with DA2 combat)
Other than the fact that the story is kind of meh and the dungeons are recycled it's a perfectly fine game.
Actually now i've said that i think that's it's problem it's not a terrible game. And it's not an awesome game it's just average which is about the worst thing you can say about any game really.
The "II" attached a high-degree of expectation that it was a direct follow-up to Dragon Age: Origins, but it wasn't.
A great many things were different: new region completely different from Ferelden, new characters with minimal references or cameos to old ones, faster-paced battles, focused in one smaller area and its outlying regions rather than sprawling across a large world, a faster-paced battle system better suited for consoles, a character-based story that revolves around Hawke's life rather than "save the world" epic, and so on.
The developers made it clear that Dragon Age II was going to be very different in many ways, and I accepted that. I played it, and to me, Dragon Age II isn't ACTUALLY "Dragon Age II." It's not a direct sequel to Origins, but rather a whole new game that takes place in the same world and has only references to Origins. In the end, I was fine with that. I really enjoyed the game. It's not as good as Origins, but I still consider it to be an incredibly solid release.
If the developers had called it something along the lines of "Dragon Age: Champion" and made it abundantly clear that it was an ancillary sequel, not a direct sequel, I think that they could have avoided a good bit of grief. I doubt EA would have let them though. Direct sequels sell better and are marketed easier.
Other than that, the only problems I had with the game were, as you said, the bugs and the recycled environments, but there are plenty of other games with those problems that are considered good releases, so I don't see how those are deal-breakers for Dragon Age II.
My one beef other than what you mentioned above is that the combat is too, well fast. I know the combat was slow in the first one but it's like going from snail speed to hyper drive. A little moderation in that department would have been nice. Maybe even the option of an auto attack (just the option would have been nice).
I also disliked the way all of the characters wore the same clothes over a 10 year time period. It is a little thing but it bugged me for the whole game, I mean come on after 10 years of dungeon crawling you need to change your shirt Isabella. And no I am not talking about changing armour but maybe one or two outfits that are unlockable for completing certain objectives in the game would not have been too hard to put in. Not too mention making companion gear easier to obtain instead of going from merchant to merchant.
The specialisations seem lacking to me too (but this is a problem that the first one had) I mean I would have like to follow a quest chain to enhance my specialisation and give it some back story, instead of "oh I levelled up now I am a Templar"
There are other things I did not like, but like these they are all minor. DA2 was great but just needed some polish. Infact the addition of the 2 in the titel kind of shows it was not polished and was kind of rushed out.
1. Fenris, the guy who escaped from a J-RPG and wouldn't stop grunting and moaning about how bad he had it with the mages (my PC was a mage).
2. Playing as a mage using blood magic and the templars turning a blind eye to my skillz (note the 'Z'). All blood mages are also evil. Come on. My DA:O mage used blood magic, was a nice guy, fought for the little people, saved Ferelden and donated his fortune to that division of the chantry that turn little orphans into hardcore maker-extremists-douche, he was a nice guy for a blood mage!
3. I didn't like Isabella as a character.
4. I didn't like how the Elves look in this one.
5. Mummy was an annoying spoiled brat, and Uncle Gamlem (<3) deserved better than that twerp for a sister.
6.
Losing your bro/sis is annoying for a lot of reasons. First, there's a penury of characters that can act as a healer. Sorry, me no likey Anders. Seconds, did I say how Anders is annoying in this one too?
7. Waves! Feel the wave, Taste the wave? Salty.
8. Assassins of any variation. How to sneak with plate armor on, and one-shot mages for dummies 3.5th edition!
9.
So a jerk goes al-quaida on me, and I'm like, well time to go USA USA on him, but apparently it's end-game, and I need a healer, so I can't go USA USA on him, and I have to be like Canada, so I hug, forgive, and go be a hero with my healer in tow. Get it? I tried not to spoil anything, but the idea of losing a key party member links to issue #6. There's a penury of characters. I already lost one healer, now you want to take the other even if I don't like him much?
10. The ending. I wish it didn't end on such a massive cliffhanger. I mean I enjoy how each Act can stand on its own, but the ending? Come on.
11. Some codex states clearly that mages cannot teleport and using such abilities. Guess what? All the enemies mages, every single one of them, whether they are blood mages or elemental ones, can teleport.
12. Lots of other consistencies.
13. The combat is fun, I'll give it that. It's stylish, or tries to be, but I felt DA:O's combat pacing was decent and the animation were way more realistic compared to DA2.
14. Ha, how could I forget the re-used dungeons, caves and mansion? I have yet to play any other game that pulled this BS.
(liked)
1. Varric
2. Varric
3. Varric
4. Varric
5. Isabella's booty
6. Varric
7. Varric
8. Varric
9. Varric
10. Story. I enjoyed watching Hawke go from spoiled rich kid gone poor to rich-kid-now-a-hero. His losses, his gains etc ... etc ....
11. Sarcastic Hawke is a funny guy.
12. Aveline is an awesome character as well.
Edit: WTF is that New Vice ad? Comeon, that's disgusting to look at.
It wasn't an awful game. It was OK. At times it looked like it was going to make the jump to 'good', and for some people may have actually made it. But after the expectations set for it with DA:O, OK or almost good wasn't good enough. Honestly, if I had played it a year after release with no expectations set for it, I would have been surprised at the quality of DA:2 as well.
In the end, what DA:2 lacked was polish. Adding a few wrinkles to the story, some new settings details that gave sense of depth to the world, maybe a new tweak or two to character building, and you would have had a winner.
I liked Dragon Age 2 in many ways more than Dragon Age: Origins. Especially considering the massively small amount of time spent on making the game compared to Dragon Age: Origins. Everyone needs to lighten up.
1. Fenris, the guy who escaped from a J-RPG and wouldn't stop grunting and moaning about how bad he had it with the mages (my PC was a mage).
2. Playing as a mage using blood magic and the templars turning a blind eye to my skillz (note the 'Z'). All blood mages are also evil. Come on. My DA:O mage used blood magic, was a nice guy, fought for the little people, saved Ferelden and donated his fortune to that division of the chantry that turn little orphans into hardcore maker-extremists-douche, he was a nice guy for a blood mage!
3. I didn't like Isabella as a character.
4. I didn't like how the Elves look in this one.
5. Mummy was an annoying spoiled brat, and Uncle Gamlem (<3) deserved better than that twerp for a sister.
6.
Losing your bro/sis is annoying for a lot of reasons. First, there's a penury of characters that can act as a healer. Sorry, me no likey Anders. Seconds, did I say how Anders is annoying in this one too?
7. Waves! Feel the wave, Taste the wave? Salty.
8. Assassins of any variation. How to sneak with plate armor on, and one-shot mages for dummies 3.5th edition!
9.
So a jerk goes al-quaida on me, and I'm like, well time to go USA USA on him, but apparently it's end-game, and I need a healer, so I can't go USA USA on him, and I have to be like Canada, so I hug, forgive, and go be a hero with my healer in tow. Get it? I tried not to spoil anything, but the idea of losing a key party member links to issue #6. There's a penury of characters. I already lost one healer, now you want to take the other even if I don't like him much?
10. The ending. I wish it didn't end on such a massive cliffhanger. I mean I enjoy how each Act can stand on its own, but the ending? Come on.
(liked)
1. Varric
2. Varric
3. Varric
4. Varric
5. Isabella's booty
6. Varric
7. Varric
8. Varric
9. Varric
10. Story. I enjoyed watching Hawke go from spoiled rich kid gone poor to rich-kid-now-a-hero. His losses, his gains etc ... etc ....
Edit: WTF is that New Vice ad? Comeon, that's disgusting to look at.
I massively agree with point 9. When the event in question happened, I had to act completely out of character because I relied so heavily on that person in question. It happened in both my playthroughs.
I'd argue it was an improvement on Origins in virtually every regard, with the exceptions of overall polish and level design.
Isabela alone makes it my favourite BioWare game to date. Her rapport with Aveline perfectly describes why I would consider it one of the most finely written games in many a year.
Kirkwall is a huge magic power eldritch machine for creating a demon-entry point on a mass scale.
The whole thing IS inevitable, that's the whole point and theme of it. You get shoehorned into the spiral of madness and conflict because the city itself does that.
I liked the new combat but I hated the story. I do not give a crap about hawke I want my Warden and I want to be doing something epic to save the world not think of ways to make money and buy a house.
Nothing else. Bioware fans are really whiny for some reason.
Mostly, the complaint seems to be that Dragon Age 2 wasn't Dragon Age Origins. The loud minority of complainers don't seem to understand that the 2 at the end of the name means it's an entirely different game. If they wanted more Dragon Age Origins, then they should buy the DLC for that game.
Just like that very stupid thread about "will you forgive Bioware" thread about Mass Effect 3. There's nothing to forgive. It's just more fanboy moaning that Bioware might have had the audacity to change something between two different games.
Seriously folks, MOST games change significantly between installments. Get over it. If you like Origins more than 2, then play more Origins and stop whining about it.
My problem with what you said is that you make it seem like all change is good, and no change is bad. I understand changes happen, and sometimes the changes are really good. I can think of plenty of games that incorporated changes that improved the game overall.
Unfortunately, DA2 isn't one of them.
Here are some things that I mean.
Combat flowed better. And was more responsive. Good change.
But this game is not free of clunkiness. Can't tell you how many times one of my characters died because Anders was stuck in a flashy 3 second long auto-attack animation that prevented him from doing anything else.
You now had a fully voiced character. Good.
Except now, dialogue options were much more limited, and you were stuck as a human. Bad.
Loot was more convenient to categorize. Good.
Except any loot you get that is not for what class you are playing, is almost completely useless. And, except for weapons, you cannot gear out your party. Or in Varric's case, couldn't be geared out at all. Bad.
Party members bantered more often. Good.
Every party member was extremely limited in role, and unable to gain a specialization. Terrible.
(Example: I rolled a Tank Hawke, meaning Aveline's role as a tank was unnecessary. Time to give her a two handed weapon and focus on dealing damag-Wait, she requires a point in two-handed weapons? hokay, let me just go over to her skill tree and put a point in two handed we-
>No two-handed weapon talents.)
These are just some examples. I also didn't like the meandering transparent story. Abrupt unsatisfying cliffhanger ending. Enemy spam wave combat. I could go on and on. The entire game stunk of being rushed. It was painfully obvious. Right down to the soundtrack. And the whole game suffered for it, beginning to end.
The bottom line here is that, I didn't like Dragon Age 2 not because it was different. But because it was not a good game, and not a good sequel, and not very fun to play.
That is my opinion. If Bioware wants to keep this "direction" with Dragon Age. Then I just hope they take their time with DA3. DA2 would've been a lot easier for me to accept if it wasn't so rushed.
My apologies if there are spoilers, though I did try to be a bit mysterious with them...
The very first issue I had with the game was the change in visual style. I found the change in look for a number of things was a step back...particularly the dark spawn. This is probably personal taste, and I'll agree it isn't a massive issue, but to me it looked worse than Origins.
The story was...well, I can't even figure out if there was a coherent enough story. At various points, as a player, you get to decide some 'key' points in the game that at the end turn out to be completely pointless. I did my utmost at one point to negate something which threatened to spill out during the game, and right at the end the very people I was trying to protect ended up fucking me over. What was the point? After all the effort I took to play the game that way, there was no payoff.
The dialogue was, in parts, funny - particularly from the followers. The only playthrough I made was through Male Hawke, and I rarely found his quips funny. Many of the options such as "Goody goody", "Funny" and "Angry" didn't really sound "Good goody", "Funny" and "Angry". They seemed kind of redundant to me.
The world was pretty boring too. Over the various arcs of the "Hawke Story" you go to the same places over and over and the quests are copy and pasted in one way or another.
Another thing that somewhat gets my goat, is that the game in some cases, for other people, completely ignored the Origin save that they carried over to DA2. There was a complete lack of continuity.
At the end of the game there are a few lines uttered which made me think "What? what the hell does that have to do with anything? What are you talking about and why should I care?" and the game finished.
It was by no means a bad game, but for me it was certainly a very unenjoyable one.
The closer I got to finishing the game the more I wanted it to end because of how monotonous and bored I was getting. The very last boss fights really annoyed me something chronic.
I dont get the hate either.. it was very similar to DA1 and I like the combat a bit more. Things against it is that it was on the short side and is a DLC ripoff fest.
1. They re-use old DA:O armors, which wouldn't be a bad thing except the entire design of the game changed. The frequency at which they re-use old armors is astounding.
2. There are almost NO new armors. It's pretty much self-explanitory.
3. The Companion armor pieces/system is bad. It is simply just a bad design choice, probably due to the 1.5 years they spent rushing this game out the door.
4. The Companion locations. This wasn't bad, just not good. Probably due to the fact that some were fairly far apart, and there were loading screens everywhere. It was just a hassle to have to go around the entire city when they could very well just be in one location.
5. The loading times and screens. The frequency and length of the loading screen was ridiculous. When you have enough time to do 100 sit-ups during a loading screen, that's a bit too long. Also (and this is an entirely personal and subjective point) I hated how the loading screen filled in asymmetrically. I really did.
6. The characters. I didn't mind most of them, but two got my attention: Fenris and Hawke's brother. Fenris was a whining, sniveling, brooding, moronic, dumbass who by the end of the game I wanted to kill and was glad he switched sides. Fenris has ZERO character development despite doing several quests for him. The brother is slightly better, but only because he is supposed to be your brother. Even then, he shared many of the same god-awful traits (like being a moron, being a whiny *****, etc). Some characters were good (like Varric) but those two make me wish I could just kill them.
7. The setting. The setting was not done well. At all. Maybe because every ten feet there was a loading screen, or maybe because the areas were so small, but the city lacked variety.
8. The story. The story was ok. There were a few plot holes (that I don't remember), but most people were expecting something on the scale of DA:O, which was a epic and awesome (if not a little slow at times). DA2 was the opposite. Slow most of the time, and epic and awesome only a scant few times during the game. Also, why in the hell don't we explore the Primeval thaig? Your brother/sister is gone, you have nothing else to do, go freaking explore the most ancient thing you have ever witnessed. I literally stopped playing for a few hours because I could not comprehend why you wouldn't want to explore those single most archaeologically important find in the last century.
9. The choice. The new ME-style system was simple, yet it proivded a massive flaw: you couldn't be as grey-area as DA:O. This is a bad thing. The grey-areas in DA:O lead to "what do I do? " moments, but not in DA2. In DA2 the system was mired in the friendship/rivalry system and the distinct lack of any real, consequential choice. None of the choices end up mattering, and the game suffers.
10. The twists. Sure, when that guy blew up that thing, it was awesome, but at the end of the game, the siding-with-the-mages twist is complete and utter bullsh*t. There is no way around it. None. It was stupid. It made me stupider for watching it. It killed any attachment any player (even mage players) felt towards the circle mages, and was a complete slap in the face. Was that the point? Probably. But it was stupid as hell.
That's it. Through a means of severely lacking in the new armor department, of not providing a new and exciting story, and having some of the worst characters in all of gaming history, DA2 failed. Not to the critics, who were happy as hell to give this game higher marks than it deserved.
My problem with what you said is that you make it seem like all change is good, and no change is bad. I understand changes happen, and sometimes the changes are really good. I can think of plenty of games that incorporated changes that improved the game overall.
No, not all change is good. I preferred being able to choose my race. But it wasn't THAT big of a deal.
Tohuvabohu said:
Loot was more convenient to categorize. Good.
Except any loot you get that is not for what class you are playing, is almost completely useless. And, except for weapons, you cannot gear out your party. Or in Varric's case, couldn't be geared out at all. Bad.
I'll agree with the bit about finding items you couldn't use. Would it really have been that hard to put in something that adjusts the item drops based on your class?
However, I disagree about the equipping the party. You had jewelery. That's four item slots that I constantly had to check on all party members to make sure that everyone was updated. It was often pointless and usually tedious.
I was VERY happy with the armor thing - not having to go through every single piece of armor was nice - I just wish they would stop giving my mage awesome suits of full plate.
Oh, and not making the item sets for Hawke ugly would have been nice too. **sigh**
Anyway....
None of the above were deal breakers. The game was fun and engaging. The story was unique (how many times do you really want to save the world?) and the dialogue allowed enough room to craft a consistent and interesting personality for my Hawke.
And the gameplay itself was far more fun (for me) than Dragon Age Origins. I have problems going back, because I like how DA2 feels.
You say the game wasn't fun. My response is that, if a company other than Bioware had produced this game under a different title, then you would have enjoyed it. I am of the opinion that you and others like you felt the game was worse than it was BECAUSE it had Dragon Age written on it. I might be wrong. It is entirely possible. But, in most cases, I think that is the reason people didn't like the gameplay.
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