What's with the extreme Nintendo Hate?

[devotedsniper]

Give me a Skies of Arcadia 2 and then i might consider a Wii U for that (till an emulator comes about), other than that I don't like motion controls, the screen on the controller and the fact that when the other 2 next gen consoles come out the third party support will likely drop to the level that the original Wii has.

Either way i'll stick to my pc, I only have a cheap old 360 for Forza.

You're not going to see an emulator for the Wii U anytime soon. The Wii was running on hardware similar to the Gamecube, hence why it was easy to emulate: single-core CPU, low level GPU, small amounts of RAM, etc.

The Wii U's internals are completely different. It is notoriously difficult, if not downright impossible, to emulate multi-core CPUs and high-level GPUs within a PC mainframe, and that's what you'd have to do to emulate a Wii U. As well ad that, you'd need to emulate the 2GB of RAM, which in emulation terms would mean a shit-ton more than 2GB: you'd need RAM for the Wii U emulation, RAM for the extra tools and widgets running behind the emulation to make it all work (as well as for save states, resolution bumps, etc), and RAM to spare to go to the OS and other PC functions ticking away in the background. Then you'd need to break down the exact way the Wii U's custom hardware operates and runs games, and try and trick a computer into running the same way on completely different hardware.

And then you'd have to try and find a way to make up for the lack of a Gamepad.

Not happening.

Never said it would be happening soon, just saying that i would rather buy the game and run it on an emulator rather than owning the console itself considering that's pretty much the only game i'd be interested in, and i doubt that will ever come out anyway. The rest of the titles i'm either not interested in, got bored of (zelda's, mario, etc.) or i can buy on pc/console.

This is the biggest issue with the Wii/Wii U for me at least, i've either lost interest in the series or there just isn't anything that i want. I don't hate Nintendo though, i have had many of their consoles/handhelds i'm just not a blind fanboy like some.

 

[Mid Boss]

There's two reasons to hate Nintendo.

1: They are holding a game that you want made simply because they just don't damn well feel like making it/localizing it/releasing it. Nintendo of America has an arrogance problem right now where they release what they feel like, when they feel like it, because they don't need your money.

2: Nintendo is more focused on casual and kiddy games. If you are a basement dwelling virgin for life then being a "really real real true gamer" is the only thing making you feel good about yourself. So when there's a company out there bringing all these moms, dads, grandpas, and chicks onto the scene and making them think they're... lol... "gamers". You lose your feeling of being "special" which causes insecurity, when then leads to ragingly lashing out at the company and the casuals. This logic applies to any company that tries to reach out to broader demographics in any way.

 

[Winterfel]

Well I'm always going to own every generations Nintendo.
Because guess what sometimes one likes to play some good local multiplayer with some friends and having a selection greater than fighting games or some other fighting games might actually be a good thing.

 

[Nomanslander]

Well, if you don't like the opinions people have on this site. Maybe this isn't the site for you to hang around on. Now I'm in no ways saying gtfo; generally most people on this site have their assorted preferences and their tastes. A lot of PC Steam users here, with a general mix of PS3 and Xbox360 gamers, mostly into RPGs, indie games, and non CoD like shooters. You'll see some retro gamers here and a minority of JRPG fans, but hardly anything along the lines of current Nintendo.

If you are heavily into current gen Nintendo, you're not going to find a lot of support here or stuff to talk about. That's just not one of our assorted preferences. You're either going to find contempt or complete disinterest.

 

[strumbore]

Nintendo has sold its soul to the Gimmick Gods. That's all there is too it. It needs to get out of the console market forever.

*spit*

I'm sorry, this is extremely stupid. Sold itself to the gimmick gods? Even if that were true, why would it deserve to leave? So you don't like the Wii. At least we have something different into the market. The reason why everything is going all same is that consoles are screwing themselves over trying to become a PC. At least Nintendo grants us a little variety.

And you haven't answered my question. Why do you hate so vehemently? You are acting like Nintendo killed you family. You *spit* on Nintendo for doing things you don't like? Have we gamers become this petty that we cannot comprehend that other people might like different things?

Sure, I can give you more explanation. Most games on the Wii rely more on the controller than they do on the plot. The reason so few games available on other systems show up on the Wii is that its controller and graphics capabilities don't support them (though I hear the Wii U has better graphics, just an even crappier controller). The Wii was designed around around motion controllers, not the hardware requirements of game developers. I would have thought Nintendo would have learned its lesson from this and take a more game-centric approach to its next console, but instead it went further into abyss. The graphics have improved, sure. But now the emphasis is not on motion-control, but co-op functions and all-encompassing home media capabilities of the ****ing controller! As reviews and analyses have shown, by attempting so much, the Wii U is a jack-ass of all trades--all trades except gaming. Because developers don't want to make games for the Wii U, because, like with the original Wii, they don't want to conform to the controller gimmick, even if graphics capabilities have improved.

What do I think of when I hear the name Nintendo? Fun on NES, SNES, Gamecube in my childhood/youth and....franchise whoring to the max.

Again, this makes no sense. So you want LESS Nintendo games? Like, I know Mario gets a lot of flak and not entirely undeserved but the current schedule they have involving Mario is akin to the NES days, or did everyone forget how close together sequels were?

We've all had good times with modern installments of Mario and Zelda, but by and large, both franchises have been repeating themselves since 1985. The ones I loved most, unsurprisingly, were the ones that broke from convention: Super Mario RPG and Majora's Mask. I will also point out that games for Nintendo systems used to appeal to a broad age range of players. There were plenty of games for kids to enjoy on the SNES, 64, and Gamecube, but there were plenty of games that were edgy too. Plenty more--made by Nintendo--that were both! But since the Wii, Nintendo has pandered almost exclusively to children. Almost every game released for the Wii was a game designed to appeal to young players. Children like bright and simple graphics, simple and naive stories, swinging swords, and waving their arms around. Adults want hi-end graphics, mature gameplay, deeper stories, and efficient controls. Nintendo is losing to Sony and Microsoft because its consoles have severed itself from developers who can appeal to the latter audience and provide that experience.

The average gamer is 30 years old and has been playing for 12 years. Sixty-eight percent of gamers are 18 years of age or older.

And they. Have. The money.

 

[Guy from the 80's]

Again, this makes no sense. So you want LESS Nintendo games? Like, I know Mario gets a lot of flak and not entirely undeserved but the current schedule they have involving Mario is akin to the NES days, or did everyone forget how close together sequels were?

Since when did objecting to franchise whoring mean less games? Does Nintendo have some type of retardation that makes them unable to make new games? I've heard SuperZeldaKart 38 is just around the corner.

 

[xaszatm]

Again, this makes no sense. So you want LESS Nintendo games? Like, I know Mario gets a lot of flak and not entirely undeserved but the current schedule they have involving Mario is akin to the NES days, or did everyone forget how close together sequels were?

Since when did objecting to franchise whoring mean less games? Does Nintendo have some type of retardation that makes them unable to make new games? I've heard SuperZeldaKart 38 is just around the corner.

So you are saying that Nintendo never makes new IPs? First off, that's a lie. Wii Sports sereis is a new IP, Harmony Knight is a new IP. Pushmo, Brain Age, Personal Trainer are new IPs even if their aren't directed at us core gamers. Rythym Heaven, Fossil Fighters are others. What's that? Those are too "casual?" Well, good thing Monolith Soft is part of Nintendo now with Xenoblade Chronicles, and the upcoming X, one is the and the other should be (considering Monolith's previous history) very well done JRPG's. And that's just the First Party Companies. What about Custom Robo, Pandora's Tower, The Last Story, Elite Beat Agents? All published under Nintendo's second party. What new IPs, right?

Second of all, it annoys me when people tell me all Mario games are the same. Alright, New Super Mario Bros probably has outstayed its welcome. They really need to come up with a new name at this point. That aside though: Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario 3D Land, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, the upcoming Mario & Luigi are all technically the same series. Surely they are doing nothing interesting with Mario! There all just simple clones!

We've all had good times with modern installments of Mario and Zelda, but by and large, both franchises have been repeating themselves since 1985. The ones I loved most, unsurprisingly, were the ones that broke from convention: Super Mario RPG and Majora's Mask. I will also point out that games for Nintendo systems used to appeal to a broad age range of players. There were plenty of games for kids to enjoy on the SNES, 64, and Gamecube, but there were plenty of games that were edgy too. Plenty more--made by Nintendo--that were both! But since the Wii, Nintendo has pandered almost exclusively to children. Almost every game released for the Wii was a game designed to appeal to young players. Children like bright and simple graphics, simple and naive stories, swinging swords, and waving their arms around. Adults want hi-end graphics, mature gameplay, deeper stories, and efficient controls. Nintendo is losing to Sony and Microsoft because its consoles have severed itself from developers who can appeal to the latter audience and provide that experience.

The average gamer is 30 years old and has been playing for 12 years. Sixty-eight percent of gamers are 18 years of age or older.

And they. Have. The money.

I'm not going to talk about hardware much. I'm personally not an expert, so what I say in that category probably will be easily dismissed. But your second point, the part were Nintendo "abandoned" the core who likes "deep" stories...just doesn't ring true to me. Plenty of stories Nintendo makes for its games can be deep. Even if we ignore everything before the Wii (since we are talking about Modern Gaming and the WiiU still hasn't had enough games for me to make a proper calling), Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Fire Emblem, Pokemon Black and White, Super Paper Mario, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (all of them), and Kid Icarus: Uprising (even with all its silliness) have deeper stories.

I know you are taking about games like Spec Ops: The Line, Bioshock Infinite (which is my current favorite), and their ilk. Well, while you make a good point...except not really. No More Heroes does the Spec Ops thing first (and both suffer in gameplay department primarily because it was designed that way) and Bioshock Infinite's character relationship in my eyes mirrors my primary reason why I loved Skyward Sword. Such stories exist in Nintendo. You might not like some of the games, but that doesn't mean that they're not there.

 

[lapan]

Sure, I can give you more explanation. Most games on the Wii rely more on the controller than they do on the plot. The reason so few games available on other systems show up on the Wii is that its controller and graphics capabilities don't support them (though I hear the Wii U has better graphics, just an even crappier controller). The Wii was designed around around motion controllers, not the hardware requirements of game developers. I would have thought Nintendo would have learned its lesson from this and take a more game-centric approach to its next console, but instead it went further into abyss. The graphics have improved, sure. But now the emphasis is not on motion-control, but co-op functions and all-encompassing home media capabilities of the ****ing controller! As reviews and analyses have shown, by attempting so much, the Wii U is a jack-ass of all trades--all trades except gaming. Because developers don't want to make games for the Wii U, because, like with the original Wii, they don't want to conform to the controller gimmick, even if graphics capabilities have improved.

Funnily enough most of the WiiU games don't really rely on the new controller. You can use the Pro controller which really isn't that much different from the other consoles.

Monster Hunter 3U showed how to use the WiiU gamepad correctly. It gives you the capability to customize which parts of the UI you want on the main screen and which on the pad and gives you ways to access your inventory and item combinations quicker.

Even the Wii had it's share of games which used the Wiimote correctly. House of the Dead Overkill and Trauma Team instantly come to mind. Lightgun shooters in particular are perfect for the Wiimote.

 

[WOPR]

In short, because they do the same things other companies we tend to hate do, but get off on a free pass because "well they're nintendo"
I mean think about how many people complain about every call of duty being the same after 4. That's been a 6 year period, and yet you don't hear near as much if any about nintendo doing the exact same "rerelease with a new paintjob" to Pokemon (17 years) or Zelda (15 years - I go off of OoT)

Plus they choose gimicks over depth. Why should they NEED to innovate when they can keep milking the same cow (Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokemon/Kirby) and give it little attachments that others find obsolete (Cartridge > CD | Mini-CD > CD | Motion Controls > Analogue Controls | Touch Controls > Analogue Controls). Why change the game when you can change the controller and make it FEEL like a different game?

The hate is simply that they get a free pass for doing things that would land others in bankruptcy.

Personally I don't hate nintendo, I just don't like their products. I understand they're a business trying to make money and that their fanbase is typically in the age (or mentality) of people who frequently need to be told to keep their tongues off the windows. (I can't even count how many I know that still say Digimon is a ripoff of Pokemon because they both end in "mon") So it's the fans I don't like, not the company.

EDIT: Oh yeah my personal gripe with them I left out. Why do we have over 100 mario games and 2 dozen or so zelda games... AND WE CAN'T GET A FOURTH F-ZERO IN A WORLD WHERE "ONLINE PLAY" IS A THING?!?! I'll openly admit that nintendo or not, F-Zero has always been one of my favorite racers. No items, just smooth racing, and you can kill other racers the old fashion way.

 

[Lightknight]

So Wii Sports, one of the most successful games of all time, wasn't a new IP? Dr Kawashima's Brain Training wasn't a new IP? Xenoblade wasn't a new IP? Nintendogs wasn't a new IP? Pushmo and Crashmo aren't new IPs? The Wonderful 101 isn't a new IP?

You're joking about the Xenoblade Chronicles right? Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a fantastic game but you do know it's from the Xeno series, right? Such as Xenogears which was released in 1998 on the playstation. This would be like claiming that FFVII was a new IP that Sony developed. Attracting IPs that are new to the system but not other platforms is different from developing a new IP. Ah Xenogears, one of the many reasons why my N64 started to collect dust. I can't believe that Nintendo gave up the Final Fantasy Series to playstation either but I'm glad that allowed FFVII to be the technological marvel it was in its day.

I'm also not sure why you're listing Wonderful 101 yet. It looks like it'll be good but as far as I know it's two months late and we don't know why as well as not nowing when it will be released what it's rated or really anything else about it aside from it being superhero Pikman (which honestly sounds great). But please understand that a handful of IPs are not enough when compared to the flood of new IPs on other systems.

Brain Age: 2005
Nintendogs: 2005
Wii Sports: 2006
Pushmo/Crashmo: 2011 A true winner in the New IP category with no room for detraction besides it being a handheld game.

Just for reference, the year is now 2013. We've got 7-8 years on most of the "new" IPs you referenced as some kind of evidence that Nintendo is pumping out new IPs at anything close to the rate their competitors are and most of these are on handhelds which I'll address more after the next quote of you.

As an adendum to Wii sports, I would generally put a disclaimer on it being the "most" successful games of all time by pointing out that it was also bundled into one of the most successfully selling consoles of all time. To the point that reviewers stopped posting it on their top ten lists for that very reason or at least they readily put that disclaimer there as having external influences that inflated sales. It still did good in its own right though and I'll absolutely accept this as a new IP that I enjoyed. I can't really see having owned a Wii without it. One question is what you consider to be a new IP. Is it something developed in the previous generation of systems or does it have to be in the the past five years? The second question is whether or not this is really a different IP by itself or if it's just a continuation of Nintendo's practice of releasing a sports game to push a peripheral. See, I clearly remember having a Nintendo Power Pad, a peripheral that I plugged into my Nintendo so that I could perform olympic sports by running in place and jumping on the mat. Damn those hurdles, damn them to heck...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1-Re_RpPc

It was the precurser to everything that gauged physical motion as input. The Wii, the Kinect, the Move, Nintendo was first here. Joke all you want, but Stadium Events served the same form and function of Wii Sports. So I've got to say that they did this before. It is just the use of sports to push a peripheral and it doesn't much matter what they call it. It'd be like Introducing a character named Wario instead of Mario who wears yellow and purple instead of red and blue and claiming that it was an entirely new IP having nothing to do with Mario.

If you're going to ignore every time Nintendo does make a new game or series, can you blame them for deciding to keep making Mario games? Mario sells. Xenoblade, apparently, didn't. And yet they're still getting Monolith Soft to work on a sequel/successor.

Maybe if you started looking for more than Mario and Zelda, you might just find something...

Nintendo's strong suit is in their handheld gaming. It'd be hard to see the world of handheld gaming without them. They're better at it in a lot of ways than smartphones or tablets but I think the iOS world of gaming may present a significant blow to their market position.

It's nice that you listed a bunch of handheld titles. This brings me to an interesting point. The people who grew up with the original Mario games in the original Nintendo console are now full-grown adults. I'm not saying adults can't play handhelds, if you are an adult with a full-time career and still find time to play games on the go that aren't in your phone then you're lucky. But generally I just use my handhelds when I'm on an airplane and/or on vacation when I am not in my house where my consoles/PCs are that have much more elaborate games available. Pushmo, Crashmo, Nintendogs, and Brain Age (aka Brain Training in PAL regions) are great handheld games. When I'm at work, I'm working. When I'm going to and from home, I'm driving and if my wife is driving instead, we're talking. The DS is not at the forefront of my head and honestly I prefer sony's handheld to the DS at this point. Little Big Planet feels more like a Nintendo IP than anything else. But when I'm home, I can't look at the DS and then look at all my consoles and PC and think that any DS games deserve my time more than the console games at my disposal. When most of us (the people complaining) are thinking of Nintendo, we're likely not thinking of the DS so much as the console games. The in-depth games that take us to new and exciting worlds. The system we usually see the major titles on is there.

In any effect, do you have any idea how few the titles you listed are compared to even one of the other systems? The list of Wii Exclusive titles is shorter than the list of DS titles. Nintendo is a great company if you still use handhelds frequently, but not necessarily better than Sony in that area either.

Here's the worst part, how many IPs are you excited about? What new titles is Nintendo advertising that you're really looking foward to. I look forward over the next two years and all the titles I see that are new aren't coming to the WiiU and aren't being put out by Nintendo. I remember the 80's and the part of the 90's when Nintendo and Sega were kicking ass with new and innovative titles. I hope this isn't the fate of Sony and Microsoft after another decade.

 

[theevilgenius60]

I don't hate Nintendo. Hell, for most of my life I was a Nintendo guy, love the big three and about 90% of the other games they make. What pushed me away was the Wii and how it was behind the other consoles and its games for the most part were not made for me. Hell, Nintendo used to be the powerful one, even as late as the GameCube. It was even in the name of their mag, Nintendo Power. For them to put out a console that basically doesn't compete in their own traditional market put me off. I still want a 3ds, as it has a glut of awesome games I want, but home-console-wise, I didn't leave Nintendo, they left me.

 

[shrekfan246]

You know those analogue controllers you're claiming are so much better? Nintendo invented them too. And they invented them purely because Miyamoto wanted a new way to control Mario in 3D.

Yeah... analog sticks were first put on the market in 1976. They sucked, to be sure, and it wasn't until 1985 that one was actually made with any degree of the same functionality they've got now, but that's a full twenty years before Nintendo put out the N64.

And Sony actually technically beat them to the punch by two months, even if it only really had functionality for Flight/Space-Sims.

OT: I nothing Nintendo. Their only franchise that I've ever really had any sort of investment in is Kirby. Well, and Pokemon, but that's a sordid tale nobody wants to hear about.

Of course, the Nintendo Defense Force around here is slowly pushing me further and further away from 'apathy' and toward 'illogical rage'.

EDIT: I would've preferred that Rare kept working with Nintendo and made an actual third Banjo-Kazooie game rather than what we got after they were absorbed into the black husk of Microsoft, though.

 

[Auron]

5) Refusal to use decent hardware, it was either having games look like shit (or use cell shading) or not having graphics-heavy games at all

Because both times prior Nintendo had tried to go all out on hardware tech, they ended up losing marketshare.

True, but the N64 was a sore mistake with the cartridge thing, the Gamecube had impractical little disks and could have been better thought out as well. I think a powerful more normal(no gimmicks on the controller) console would have been great now after the wii, I might even purchase one. The wii u is just an xbox with a little screen in the controller however. I do miss Mario from time to time though, my last nintendo console was the Gamecube.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

They are doing an offer at the moment that if you register 3 games for the 3DS out of 8 recent ones you get a downloadable game free.

I feel far from hatred since I'm going to be able to benefit from this offer

 

[WOPR]

How many 3D Mario games were there on the N64? One, Mario 64. How many on Gamecube? One, Super Mario Sunshine. How many on the Wii? Two, the Galaxy games. How many on 3DS? One, Mario 3D Land, with no word yet of a follow up. How many on Wii U? None, although we know there's one in the works.

If it were just that, it would be fine. But you're failing to include... Mario Golf, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Party, Paper Mario (Which I liked; and this is only a few and only the N64). The point is there's lots of other characters they could use for such games yet they choose not to and this over use is very VERY annoying.

You know those analogue controllers you're claiming are so much better? Nintendo invented them too. And they invented them purely because Miyamoto wanted a new way to control Mario in 3D. Hence why the N64 got the analogue stick, and Mario 64 played how it did. Nintendo has always designed hardware and software together, and that approach has created the very controller you espouse as being so superior.

Then if they were so much better why throw them away? I understand nintendo worked on such controllers. I feel the SNES controller was the peak of their positive innovation honestly. Comfortable, functional, you name it and it did it. Then the N64 came along with a joystick that landed many kids with blisters and injuries. (As well as being designed for the three handed.) Then the Gamecube controller only took what was basic for the time and REMOVED buttons... We don't even need to start on the wiimote...

For all that you shit on motion controls, the Metroid Prime trilogy controlled far better and with greater accuracy with the Wiimote than any other console FPS this generation. And the Gamepad might allow for something like an actual console RTS that doesn't control like utter shit. Wouldn't that be neat?

That's because FPS games typically suck on controllers. Even worse when nintendo only used one of the two joysticks for movement/sight instead of using both like other FPS games on the same console (Turok Evolution). I don't want to think of a mouseless RTS, played too many to see any real hope for them. (Except Uprising X. That one worked. But it was an FPS/RTS)

Wow. Just wow. You've got one hell of a superiority complex.

No, just observant and more cultured. As someone who's played thousands of games, my educated opinion holds a bit more weight than the people I know who will only play games by Nintendo and EA. Similarly, people who will listen to any music generally have better taste than people who will only listen to songs they heard about on Disney channel and go out of their way to avoid any contact with anything outside their little bubble.

So wait... you hate the fact that Nintendo milks franchises. And yet, when they don't milk a franchise, you get upset with them for not giving you more sequels?

Man... damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Small difference. Milking a franchise is making a bunch of the same game without adding anything notably new. (See: Call of Duty, Legend of Zelda, Halo.) But bringing an older franchise that hasn't seen much daylight into an age where it could thrive is just bad business. Fighters, Shooters, and Racers are doing much better now that we have online play easily accessible. So why Nintendo continues to make Mario game after Zelda game after Mario game is beyond me when they could simply just make ONE new F-Zero game and ONE new Starfox game and call it good. The last F-Zero game was on the Gamecube, before online play was a thing. (Note: this doesn't just apply to Nintendo; as to why Capcom continues to remake street fighter 4 instead of just making Power Stone 3 is also beyond me.)

Hope that sums things up a bit. I get the last one a LOT.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

As you might have guess from looking around the site, Nintendo's Wii U has not been as hot as Nintendo would like it. And as a result of this people are ...celebrating? Openly declaring Nintendo dead? Screaming to the high heavens that Nintendo needs to die? ...WHAT?!?

Yeah, this is the topic I want to discuss. What is with the bile against Nintendo? And I don't mean legit complaints. Things like the huge dry period, hardware problems, loading times, long updates and the ilk are legitimate complaints and should be discussed. What I don't understand is what I described in the first paragraph. The unfiltered bile everyone seems to have against Nintendo. So my question is simple: what causes such over the top hate for Nintendo lately?

Any perceived celebration coming from me (and I don't think my posts would necessarily give that impression) is actually simply because events are unfolding as I predicted. In <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.332933-Poll-Should-Nintendo-Stop-Making-Consoles?page=5>2011 for example, I predicted the current set of issues facing the Wii U - notably well before the console even launched. Hell, in <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.122052-What-Nintendo-is-really-doing-And-why-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-casual-games>2009 I laid out on the table the set of problems Nintendo was going to face in the future.

Basically, I like that it turns out I was right.

 

[Evil Smurf]

We hate EA, we only think Nintendo is making bad choices when it comes their consoles.