What's wrong with prostitution?

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FungTheDestroy

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BlindMessiah94 said:
FungTheDestroy said:
BlindMessiah94 said:
FungTheDestroy said:
Prostitution is like abortion.
Wow, not gonna touch that one with a ten foot pole lol. Let the controversy begin!
Woah there! Read the next sentence there before you quote! They both have to do with a woman's RIGHT to have CONTROL over her own body! Make either illegal and you STRIP the woman of CONTROL over her own LIFE!!!!

Is the Controvery that abortion and the pill are not the Woman's right, but the baby's? Or is it the Gods' rights? That would make more sense! NOW the controversy can start to bubble, then stop because we all realize it's not worth arguing here on the boards.
Oh I read the whole thing. Didn't say I disagreed with you either. Just saying the sentence
"Prostituion is like abortion" is probably gonna turn some heads lol.
So calm down! Same team!
Alright. Just wanted to make sure no one stopped reading at the first sentence. Wasn't so angry either. Just wanted to make things clear, neh?

I just thought it was necessary to bring up that the question of social equality is more important than the question of Godly morality, in any kind of context or example, whether it's on topic prostitution, or the "off topic", but really "the same exact topic", abortion, and the pill.
 

Rockatansky

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Dec 21, 2009
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Depends on the sort of prostitution, the high end 'escort' girl doesn't need protection, chances are she made her own choice to sell sex, whatever, I don't care about the morals of the issue.

The problem I have, working as a police officer in an inner city area with its own red light district is with what the law calls common prostitution. Girls walking the streets soliciting. Every one of the girls that gets locked up, charged and put in to drug intervention programs is a hopeless drug addict. They're the walking dead, skin and bones, stink, look about ten years older than they are and you can see the scars and bruises from the rapes and beatings. Do they care about how degraded or vulnerable they are? They couldn't give a fuck, all they care about is getting the next crack hit (the crack heads are even more messed up then the smack heads, but they normally take both drugs).

Even the briefest conversation with these girls shows that they're not dumb either, they acknowledge how messed up their lives are they're just beyond caring. That's a level of addiction that I find hard to comprehend.

The saddest thing is to look back through their custody pictures and see pictures of them as normal teenagers having been arrested for shop lifting or drunk and disorderly and watch the decline as they slip into drug addiction.

Most of the stories I've heard start with girls drinking, then smoking weed, getting into speed and pills, then a bit of coke, then it's the big jump to crack or heroin. They get into prostitution gradually, giving a dealer a blow job for a rock, maybe fucking one of his mates because they can't afford what they need. Once the addictions full blown it's not such a big departure to start walking the streets, just working for drugs, £10 for a hand job, £20 for a blow job, both go straight to the dealer, get high then get straight back out on the streets again. Apart from the rapes and arrests that's how it goes until they either overdose or disappear.

It's just horrible, prostitution may be a crime but the girls are the victims, problem is they're beyond caring. Conversely, the male smack heads normally turn to shop lifting or burglary, I've never dealt with a male prostitute.

As for STI the girls say they only really do hand/blow jobs and rarely have full sex and they always use condoms. However, I know that there are girls out there with HIV that are still working. The punters who we lock up with these girls tend to be middle-aged, married and (in Birmingham at least) Asian. I've no idea why they pay to go with these girls as they're like the walking dead, I think they must get off on the exploitive, nastiness of it. If these scum bags didn't get off on exploiting a drug addicts misery then they wouldn't be out selling sex, however, no matter how ravaged, dirty, stinking and miserable the girl is there's always some lowlife who'll pay her for sex.

That's the problem, men getting off on exploiting fucked up vulnerable women. I don't know how that can be changed and that's depressing.
 

FungTheDestroy

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What's wrong with prostitution: The women are severely underage, they are mistreated or even killed by the customers and pimps, and there is a very high chance of STDs spreading.


What's wrong with LEGAL prostitution: Nothing. It's practiced in a safe establishment where only legal aged women work. They are kept safe from both physical harm, and STDs. They receive medical exams and are paid a fair wage.
 

Kollega

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Oh wow, mass-quote! I knew i should have made it more clear.

GoldenRaz said:
I don't know if you would call something a "meaningful" relationship if all that you get from it is sex. If the only reason for you to seek out relationships is to have some sex, then any potential relationship rapidly looses its meaning.

The point that I want to make is that being able to have sex at any time doesn't detract from any given person's search for - for lack of a better word - 'love'. And a suitable mate that you want to have children with.
JaredXE said:
Because we as a species still need people for other, non-sexual, relationships. A person who is at the stage of life where they are looking to settle down and form an intimate, life-long connection with someone isn't likely to pay a prostitute. A young and/or non-settled person will.

That said, sex is still a HUGE part in forming relationships. Is the the most important, no. But it is in the top three. This applies to both partners, of either gender. Sexual frustration while in a commited relationship is just begging for release. If your sweetie isn't going to give you any, maybe a legal outlet is required. And if your partner doesn't like that, well then they know what they need to start doing.
Enkidu88 said:
It doesn't really trivialize sex anymore than when people go to a bar, get blind drunk and then have sex before parting ways and never seeing each other again. People need to stop thinking Sex is the end-all point of a relationship. Sure sex itself is great, but simple sex with a prostitute won't substitute the emotional bonds that you form with a committed partner, which enhances the entire experience in my opinion.
What i (probably) wanted to say is that it will trivialize sex a little more than it's already is - but you all heard about the straw that broke the camel's back, right? I guess that it wouldn't actually become said straw, though. This argument of mine is ultimately pretty weak in today's conditions - those who actually want romance will seek it, those who don't want it will not seek it either way.

I know! Someone just has to popularise the notion that a full-blown romantic relationship is far more than just sex. Then legal, regulated prostitution can easily have next to no negative effects.
 

seamusotorain

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Well if you're looking for a rewarding, fulfilling life in prostitution, move to Holland. Prostitutes can claim tax back on lube, condoms and any other...tools of the trade.

OT: I guess it's because legalising prostitution would have either have little effect on people trafficking, or would increase it to meet the supply. The whole "hooker with a heart of gold" is bull, I doubt very few people make a decision to pursue that particular career path.

There's plenty of things higher on my list of "things that should be legal", like weed, or slapping people who really deserve it.
 

Calatar

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Thaius said:
Besides the spread of STDs, it would be yet another step in destroying the institution of marriage. No doubt there will be people who will argue that marriage is not needed and that sex is just for entertainment and reproduction, but this is simply not the case. Marriage and the family unit are some of the most important aspects of any society: take a high-school level sociology class to figure that one out. We've already desecrated and destroyed marriage enough: legal prostitution would only serve to further destroy the family unit and destabilize a society that is already suffering.
I don't like this argument. Not that I support legalization either, but this seems faulty.
I tend to agree that marriage is important, and the "family unit" is important. I fail to see how prostitution being legal destroys it. I think your argument is something along the lines of "if sex is too easy to get, then there's no reason to get/stay married" or "if prostitution is too accessible, then people will inevitably cheat on their partners."
I doubt that sex is a primary motivation for people to get married, if that is your argument.
The second argument may hold some water, but I doubt that sex is all that inaccessible currently. I therefore doubt that increased supply will have any significant effect on families. I just think cheaters gonna cheat, but normal people require more extraordinary circumstances to cheat on their partner than prostitution existing. Like actual relationships with other people.

I also doubt that "the institution of marriage is under attack." From what source?

OT: I think that legalizing and controlling prostitution might help, but it would probably end up re-creating the same problems that exist with it. If I were to litigate the health issues of prostitution, I would require routine health exams for the employees, certification for those involved that they have sufficient sex-education and knowledge of proper birth control usage. But I wouldn't stop there, condoms are not a good enough safeguard against STDs in my opinion, though they definitely do help. I'd also require certification of sexual health from prospective customers.

And that's just basic stuff to ensure that the prostitutes don't inevitably end up with STDs. The problem is: what about those prostitutes who already have STDs? They would not be legally allowed to be whores. And what about customers with STDs? They would not be allowed to be customers. So there would still be a supply and demand, resulting in a black market, with unsafe practices. While it would certainly benefit some prostitutes, it certainly wouldn't do anything to help the ones who are already in horrible conditions, and it might actually force others into more horrible conditions.

Perhaps if there were contracts stipulating knowledge that a prostitute had STDs, and releasing them from any claims to harm if you contract that STD, prostitutes could continue to "work" even if they weren't completely healthy. But customers with STDs? I don't even know. No sane prostitute would take them, because if they jeopardize their health, they jeopardize their certification. And so there would be a demand still. And likely still a black market.

Honestly, I would rather the government spend its money on creating other jobs, rather than legislating prostitution. And even if legalizing prostitution was convincingly better than what we have now, I doubt the government would take action. Look at marijuana. It's considered to be political suicide to attempt to legalize something that people have kneejerk reactions to, and therefore it will not change.

While I support neither prostitution nor the smoking of marijuana, I believe I could get my head around supporting the legalization of them in the interest of the greater good.
 

'Aredor

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Jan 24, 2010
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Thaius said:
I most definitely do not believe that sex is the only reason to marry, or even a primary reason. But there are a lot of people who do: as I said, our society is largely based around sex now.
But that's my point: I say those people who think so are better off not being married. Why would you say "he's only married to her because he wants to have sex on a regular basis, but I sure do hope their marriage lasts another thirty years"? This kind of marriage certainly is not the type you're talking about when you say marriage is the basis of our society?

Thaius said:
The problems themselves are only the beginning, but they can be worked through if the couple is willing. If not, they turn to other means of escape: such as prostitution. And the legalization of it would only make that easier. Can you honestly tell me this is a good thing?
Couldn't it be that there are cases in which the opposite is true? He loves his wife and wants to keep the marriage going, but unfortunately she isn't willing to satisfy his sexual appetite anymore. So he goes out to a prostitute, maybe even with his wife's consent, and everything is fine. If you take the prostitute away, he's forced to search for a new partner, who might not be content to be just his mistress and might urge him to get a divorce.
 

jasoncyrus

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There have actually been some very successful, efficient and clean brothels in the UK. I remember reading about one that was shut down where there were boucners to protect the girls from abusive clients, the sheets were changed after every client along with showers and the girls were required to take a monthly STD test and regular aids testing to make sure the were top standard for their chosen profession. Condom use was also mandatory.

EDIT: Also just to side swipe the marriage debate. If you feel the need to go to a prostitute while married then apparently you didnt want to actually marry that person. Although if its a threesome then its all good.

Personally if the government started up a legal prostituion service they would make a fortune from it as it would help remove the stigma from it and also put some much needed cash flow into the economy.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Prostitution is fine.

If person A wants to have sex and be paid for it, and person B wants to have sex and pay for it, I don't see a problem with A and B getting together and making a mutually agreeable deal that benefits both parties.

I've known several female friends and even girlfriends who have been prostitutes at various points in their lives (although I've never actually paid for sex myself) and I figure that it's their choice to do that work. It's not for everybody, and I would never recommend it to anyone, but nor do I consider myself some kind of moral arbiter for others. Other people have to decide what's right and wrong for them. Yes it can be unpleasant work but then that's one reason why it pays so well.

As for STDs, prostitutes are more aware and careful about that sort of stuff than most people in relationships are. Most brothels will simply turn you away if you insist on unprotected sex. One girl I know who worked for a while carried around a book with her of genital diseases and showed it to any clients who wanted unprotected sex. They soon changed their minds.

Crime's attachment to prostitution is a problem... until you legalise it and regulate the industry, something which has already happened in parts of where I live. Then the criminals tend to get out (criminals tend to feel uncomfortable about them 'regulation' things) and find some other industry to partake in.
 

Kurokami

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StarStruckStrumpets said:
Taking into account biblical morals only, ever heard the "body is a temple" thing? Following some rather screwed up logic, our bodies are temples of the lord and we should respect them...or something. I can't remember the full process, but it is similar. That alone is biblical reason enough to say, yes, it is wrong. However, if I were to go by my own views, I do not have a problem with it, but more needs to be done to ensure safety for both parties.

Soushi said:
guess i should comment before this thread gets locked.
I guess decriminalizing it would be a step towards erasing the gangs and thugs that live off of prostitution. However... i am worried about the possible spread of STD's though, even in government operates facilities. Then again, some women and men see it as the only way to make money, unfortunate, but true. It is such a creepy and sticky issue that it is difficult to really talk about. to be honest.. i think that physical love is just as important as emotional love, and should not be treated like a commodity. then again, I think that humans have the right to make thier own choices. However, more definitely needs to be done to protect those who engage in prostitution.
You just had to call it a sticky issue, didn't you?
Our bodies are temples in the sense that our souls fill it devoutly to praise god... or so I assume it means.


=]
 

Blanks

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if it were properly organized and made safe for the ones selling themselves i'm sure it wouldn't be that bad (mostly saying if the governments stepped in and regulated it)
 

rossatdi

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dreadedcandiru99 said:
As George Carlin put it, "Selling is legal, fucking is legal--why isn't selling fucking legal? Why is it illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away?"
As is the case on many matters, George Carlin speaketh the truth.

Various policies that I'd put into place, given the power.

1. Prostitution should be legal, licenses for brothels should be set up, prostitution should stay off the streets.
2. It should be monitored reasonably careful to ensure that STDs are prevented and controlled. Although anonymity of the actual workers should be closely protected.
3. Condoms should be a legal requirement.
4. Any prostitutes that unfortunately get infected with an incurable STD should be support to seek re-education, in the same way that work disability works.
5. Criminal gangs should be hounded to destruction at the same time. The poor women who are involved in the trade should be heavily supported until they can get on their feet.
6. The problem of poverty stricken women turning to it would be aided by government programmes and literature (that has to be displayed in the staff areas of brothels). Any women caught selling sex illegally should be given soft sentences such as community service.
7. Anyone caught buying sex whilst knowing they have an STD should get an instant jail sentence, although knowledge would be difficult to prove.
8. Increased role of STD clinics.
 

zhoominator

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The only problem I'd forsee is that STDs can be very difficult to prevent and control. After all, there are many people with things like Chlamydia who won't even know that they have it. How do you control it then? Force all the men to wear condoms. While I don't find too much ethically wrong with legalising it, I don't imagine that it would be very practical especially considering I live in a country (UK) obsessed with risk assessments and Health and Safety. I just don't think it could work.
 

Bloodeye

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Aug 25, 2009
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Prostitution is more or less legal in Australia and our society hasn't come crashing down. Certainly a prostitute working in a legal brothel is safer then your average street walker.
 

Chaos-Spider

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Twilight_guy said:
Prostitution from a non-religious standpoint and assuming both parties are not forced (by one factor or another) is fine. The problem is that many prostitutes would rather be doing something else and have to do that line of work due to the need for money and the inability to find another job (or keep it or whatever).

Legalizing prostitution will never happen due to our country being founded on a judeo-Christan system which frowns on prostitution. Arguing it's moral implications is a moot point if it will never happen.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the case in Australia as well as the current labor government seems unlikely to bring this issue into the forum of public policy making and the leader of the opposition espouses the opinion that sex should be done 'by the rules' indicating that it should only be done inside marriage.

I know that the news articles reporting it say that it was as parental advice for his daughters to regard their virginity 'as a gift', but when it is published in a nationally circulated womens magazine it becomes a general application and a larger concern for the history of women's rights in this country.

Edit: Wait. prostitution is more or less legal here? I must have been thinking of some other aspect of this issue. But I am still deeply concerned about Tony Abbott's virginity comments (and that he is Catholic)
 

SenseOfTumour

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Heh, prostitution is legal, but they want to ban GTA :)

But what if an under 18 gets their hands on a prostitute?

Yes, I know prostitution is meant for adults, but you can't stop them trying to obtain prostitutes.

Ahem, anyways, just messing!

I'm all for it, get it legalised, tobacco and alcohol are both bad for you, but the governments of the world make them legal to make stacks of cash from the taxation of said vices. Why not prostitution, sure it'd need regulating, and other such costs will come up, especially in it's first year, but they'd soon be overwhelmed by the amount of tax money coming in. Which of course should be invested in health, including mental health, as prostitution can mess some people up, and we should be there to protect them, the same way we stitch up drunks on friday nights and treat lung cancer patients.

I'm in agreement with most of the 'rules' suggested above also.

I'd say that anyone offering sex without condoms should be prosecuted however, as it's just a silly risk, and if you're now getting offered legal sex for sale, and that's not enough for you, well, how about trying to get an actual relationship, money can't buy everything :)

As a generalisation, men will always need sex more than women, and this goes some way to balancing it, as well as balancing the inequality of pay between the sexes,'I earn $20 an hour now' 'Well, I earn $200 an hour and don't have to get out of bed!' (that should set some people off on one! :) )

Personally I'd go as far as to criminalise anyone who lurks around brothels trying to take photos of people going in or working there also. I personally hate the media's double standard of pretty much showing pornography daily, then being morally outraged when someone fucks someone else. To me, unless sex is relevant to your job, I don't much care who you've fucked, so long as you're still doing your job.
 

Ben Legend

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Degrading to women? I never got prostitution, surely you know they may be... well, faking it, or worse, have something. =S
 

Indecizion

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Meh i dont think theres necessarily anything wrong with it, people can do what they want with their bodies as long as their actions dont affect anybody elses freedom's but yeah i think it being legal is better than illegal, americans QQ about amsterdams legal prostitutes alot, but they fail to acknowlege that at least the women doing it legaly are well paid well treated by their employers, as opposed to the ones in the US who are beaten poorly paid and almost always on drugs and are constantly being thrown in jail.
 

eruwenfuin

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May 28, 2009
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It's not necessarily prostitution itself that I have an issue with, it's forced prostitution. If you choose to sell your body in order to make a living (Prostitutes and porn stars alike in my world), then fine by me, go get your monthly and biweekly check up in order to check if you're getting STD ridden and have a blast. However if you're forced into it, then it's just another form of human slavery and that is something I believe to be morally wrong. Oddly enough most of the prostitution is forced, wheras pornstardom is not. Odd that, since the only difference is the video camera.