I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.
Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.
Lets say I make a game with a relatable female charachter, and her motivation is a male romantic interest let's call him Jake.
What should Jake's charachter's role be in order for the scenario to feel relatable to a wide female audience?
It's probably not enough to switch Mario and Princess Peach to Maria and Prince Apricot.
In other words how do we do this right?
Name games, literature, movies, comic books fairy-tales that have done this right defore.
I agree that guys have been the focus of writers and designers as far as relatability goes and I don't think a simple "choose your chrachter's naughty bits" option is the answer.
Please, women of gaming, tell my writing staff what you want!
The ?Dykes to Watch Out For? test, formerly coined as the ?Mo Movie Measure? test and Bechdel Test, was named for the comic strip it came from, penned by Alison Bechdel ? but Bechdel credits a friend named Liz Wallace, so maybe it really should be called the Liz Wallace Test?? Anyway, the test is much simpler than the name. To pass it your movie must have the following:
1) there are at least two named female characters, who
2) talk to each other about
3) something other than a man.
So simple, and yet as you go through all your favorite movies (and most of your favorite TV shows, though there?s a little more variety in TV), you find very few movies pass this test.
It may sound a little extreme but it does resonate with the videogame industry too. When you have several female characters it's likely that most if not all of them act like they only exist for the main character's behalf. The rationale behind that is:
I asked why. Well, it would be more accurate to say I politely demanded a thorough, logical explanation that made sense for a change (I?d found the ?audience won?t watch women!? argument pretty questionable, with its ever-shifting reasons and parameters).
At first I got several tentative murmurings about how it distracted from the flow or point of the story. I went through this with more than one professor, more than one industry professional. Finally, I got one blessedly telling explanation from an industry pro: ?The audience doesn?t want to listen to a bunch of women talking about whatever it is women talk about.?
?Not even if it advances the story?? I asked. That?s rule number one in screenwriting, though you?d never know it from watching most movies: every moment in a script should reveal another chunk of the story and keep it moving.
He just looked embarrassed and said, ?I mean, that?s not how I see it, that?s how they see it.?
...
According to Hollywood, if two women came on screen and started talking, the target male audience?s brain would glaze over and assume the women were talking about nail polish or shoes or something that didn?t pertain to the story. Only if they heard the name of a man in the story would they tune back in. By having women talk to each other about something other than men, I was ?losing the audience.?
I take it you're being purposefully stupid on your last question just to suit your argument. Most games have fixed characters because most games will tell a specific story about that character (unlike RPGs)
Now that I think about it, Zelda.
Strange, pantsless, green-wearing swordsman that cannot speak aside.
#1 What is the game named after.
#2 What is the main plot device.
#3 Who is generally the most the most intelligent as well as elegant character. (This may only apply to the later games, Ocarina and up)
#4 Who is is one of the most powerful people, both politically and magically. (Also, see #3)
Most RPGs however do actually give you the option of male or female, see mass effect, elder scrolls series, fallout, dragon age, etc. RPGs give you character customization other games that are trying to tell a most straightforward story with less character choices and possible more development require a set character. I know bioware allows for both male and female romances in some of their games. And when your playing as a male the romantic interest is female for a very good reason, the walking refigerator is not gay.
Ok, stop it right there.
How exactly is that a "very good reason"?
That's just an extreamly homophoebic reason (not targeted at you, targeted at developers) and you know it.
Sales is an extremely good reason. Honesly I admit you see very very few gay relationships outside of jrps because nobody knows if they are a cross dresser or male and dragon age which doesnt count. Still their arnt that many lesbian relationships either although considerably more.
We both know that the American culture is viewed as extremely homophoepic. All you have to do is look at that thread about gay marrige in cali? and you will see why game developers try to avoid things like that. I really dont care either way if they are in games or not. But with the way video games are viewed I think it would be bad to add anything that controversial.
In the end developers go with what will sell better, since they really are just in it for the money. RPGs let you choose your gender, other games will generally be static, and jrpgs will keep you guessing if your character is male or female.
It wouldn't be bad.
Samus wasn't bad, it was suprising.
You need to create something controversial in order to change the idea about it being controversial.
Flying-Emu said:
Zeithri said:
You do know that Samus was the one who actually broke the gender rules?
I mean, you do know that everyone refered to Samus as a HE until they got the Best ending, right?
Because you made it seem like it was universally accepted that Samus were a female, yet back in that day and age, it was rather shocking and controversial. Imagine the screams if Master Chief from Halo would had been revealed by the end of the third game that it was infact, a Woman.
Shycte said:
You oughta be trolling...
But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.
And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.
Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.
Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.
See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?
I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.
Of course, one also buys games with a male protagonist because the game itself looks sweeet.
But I am all with you on this.
Here are a few things you can note as well when it comes to Male vs Female;
* In movies, if there are hot chicks in it, they never speak to each other. And if they do, they only talk about their men. Few movies break this habit.
* If there is a woman in a videogame, 7/10 times she'll be an damsel in distress. Even if the main character is a complete whimp, he will end up saving her at one time or another.
The argument about "It's mostly adolscent males who play games" is that of a broken one.
Here's a thought;
Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?
EDIT: Things got fucked up with the qoute. Better now.
Shycte said:
You oughta be trolling...
But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.
And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.
Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.
Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.
See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?
Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.
And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.
Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.
Developers are not that stupid, they realize there are female players. On the other hand, the simple truth is that you are a vast minority of gamers. So in general the smart thing to do is target male gamers.
There are stories with male protagonists, and stories with female protagonists. Why? Iunno. Why was Harry Potter not Harrieta Potter? Why was Lara Croft not Larry Croft? Why was Indiana Jones not Girlsname Jones? The character was just written that way. It's not some big conspiracy, and, frankly, there are a LOT of games with female leads that have come out just within the past few years.
I still personally think not playing/purchasing a game because you can't play a character with nether regions identical to your own is silly. A hero should be a hero because of the qualities they possess, not because of their gender. Would it be nice to be able to play male or female for whatever game you wanted? Sure, I guess, but why does it matter? It's not oppressing you and you're not going to catch a case of The Dudes by playing. All you're doing by boycotting games that feature only male protagonists is depriving yourself of some genuinely good games, and I'd say the same thing to a guy that complained about Metroid, Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, Fatal Frame, Silent Hill 3, etc etc etc.
The only games I really expect to be able to play my own gender are in games where you create your own character, like Oblivion or Fallout. If you want me to create a character, it's probably because you want me to be immersed in the game and feel like it's "my" story. Otherwise, gaming is for me, at best, an interactive storytelling experience, and as long as the story at hand is an interesting one, I could care less whether I'm wearing sensible trousers or a miniskirt.
I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.
Of course, one also buys games with a male protagonist because the game itself looks sweeet.
But I am all with you on this.
Here are a few things you can note as well when it comes to Male vs Female;
* In movies, if there are hot chicks in it, they never speak to each other. And if they do, they only talk about their men. Few movies break this habit.
* If there is a woman in a videogame, 7/10 times she'll be an damsel in distress. Even if the main character is a complete whimp, he will end up saving her at one time or another.
The argument about "It's mostly adolscent males who play games" is that of a broken one.
Here's a thought;
Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?
Men invented games. It's all we have, the only thing in our lives that the majority of women A) don't want to be a part of and B) won't take in the divorce settlement.
You don't play games where you can only play a male? Wow, you can't have played many games. And of course you can't change your gender in every game. If that was the case, we'd almost only have RPG games. And some people might not want that.
I am a no sale on most current games too, because the characters (not to mention all the other aspects) in most current games are shallow, one-dimensional and stereotypical, regardless of their gender.
Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters?
I enjoy playing as April Ryan, Zoe Castillo, Jade (BG&E), Kate Walker or Phoenix Wallis, because they are deep, multi-faceted characters with whom I can empathise, in spite of their not being my gender. And I enjoy playing as JC Denton or Raz because they are deep, multi-faceted characters with whom I can empathise, not because they are male. I do not enjoy playing as Lara Croft, because she is flat (see what I did there?), not because she is female.
I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.
Do you also not read books or watch films with male protagonists? I like to get the female perspective as well as the male, in my media, as it gives a more thorough, well-rounded insight into the world.
To answer your original question: Game developers will cater more to female gamers when more women go into the game development industry. That may sound like a cop-out thought up by a male developer too lazy to research the female perspective, but it's still a sad truth that there are too few women in the industry. And it's not as if game studios are particularly macho workplaces. And, unlike most industries, female game developers are actually paid more than their male counterparts, on average (although that might just be because they tend to be in the higher-paid positions).
There are more males in games because it takes to much time and money to have both, you have to make another character with whole new dialogue for the character. However some of my favorite games have female characters like Portal, Mass Effect, and Borderlands.
That's an flawed argument right there if I ever saw one.
You can NEVER please anyone with ANYTHING. That's just a simple fact.
Theoretically,
just because you are hot, big breasted and look like a supermodel doesn't mean everyone is going to love you.
In the same way, just because you are the kindest person on Earth doesn't mean everyone will love you.
But that wasn't what you said. You said that they stiffled their creativity, which is wrong.
Stiffled creativity doesn't come from gender of the main character, it comes from elsewhere.
Psychosocial said:
I wasn't exactly making any 'arguments' there. I was more telling it as it is with the lot of you feminists. Really, this topic is nothing more but one giant fucking joke. The only thing that makes me laugh even more than the OP would have to be you.
Well, then you aren't contributing to the thread in neither discussion value nor argumentation and therefore are trolling with your offensive statements.
I still hope for Bungie to come to their senses and announce MC as a Female.
Don't give your praise to Bioware for that. There will be others greater ones.
I hate Bioware with annoyment, but that's a discussion for another time.
Ganondorf as well? Now I really want them to make it.. =(
Though, the whole garudo thing with Ganondorf might be a little much.
Reversing the whole 'one male born every 100 years destined to be king' thing could be taken really badly. XD
While we are at it, Prince Ruto? Actually, that's kinda creepy..
Hah
I'm not very knowledged with Zelda games. My favorite is the second one on NES.
Gametrailers do have an awesome retrospective on it though.
Shycte said:
Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.
See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?
Oh, so a democracy only works -> one way?
Yes, of course they are allowed to make their games the way they want them.
It's just a shame that many refuse to allow female protagonists as we've read about lately.
Also, I have not seen Twilight so I cannot comment on that.
Glademaster said:
Zeithri said:
I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.
Of course, one also buys games with a male protagonist because the game itself looks sweeet.
But I am all with you on this.
Here are a few things you can note as well when it comes to Male vs Female;
* In movies, if there are hot chicks in it, they never speak to each other. And if they do, they only talk about their men. Few movies break this habit.
* If there is a woman in a videogame, 7/10 times she'll be an damsel in distress. Even if the main character is a complete whimp, he will end up saving her at one time or another.
The argument about "It's mostly adolscent males who play games" is that of a broken one.
Here's a thought;
Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?
There is one way they can and it would stifle the creativity. Let the player decide. Give them a male or female avatar to choose from. Unfortunately those resources have to come from somewhere. Since it is more than just switching skins.
And it doesn't matter if the game reaches AAA status or not. I don't believe developers are forking out millions for a game they think will blow dead goats.
Granted RPG's should always have a gender option because they are based upon role-play where people frequently like to play as themselves in a fantasy setting, but beyond that you are playing as a character not an avatar of yourself.
How is it that RPG's should have an gender option?
How is that logic?
Roleplaying does not equal to you playing yourself in a game, but instead of putting yourself in the role of another character you aren't. And yes, every game, movie and book in existance can under that rule be classified as "Roleplaying", but that's what it is. So why you basically are saying the same thing I am, you also aren't.
While you are playing the role of Lara Croft in one of her games, in RPG's more often than not you are playing the role of [Insert Human Player Here] and players frequently choose to be themselves, even going to far as to making their character look like them and having the same name.
Granted not all players do that, but RPG's are one of the very few types of games where appearance and name can be chosen, and as such it makes sense to allow gender choice as well for those who wish to be themselves.
I should point out that by RPG I am referring to Bioware ones such as KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age, as well as Fallout games as opposed to ones such as Diablo and so on.
Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.
See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?
Oh, so a democracy only works -> one way?
Yes, of course they are allowed to make their games the way they want them.
It's just a shame that many refuse to allow female protagonists as we've read about lately.
Also, I have not seen Twilight so I cannot comment on that.
There are plenty of female protaganists. But the main things is that because most gamers are male, the devs make more male characters because they are easier to relate to, for a man. They are just following the market like any good company would.
Anything else would be like opening a pork shop in Iran then cursing over the suprising lack of costumers.
Because sometimes there is a story with a character, which already has a name (which is why games also don't let you name yourself). Perfect example of a game that wouldn't work with a female lead, Duke Nukem.
Who cares if you play as a guy or a girl? I buy games for that thing people used to play games for called fun. I could care less about if the lead is male/female/whatever as long as the game is fun.
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