My gawd, I never knew that this was such vast franchise. It might as well be an actual alternate universe with all the history it seems to have.
Who would be the victor in the 40K universe?
- Thread starter KING BOB 2896
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The 'Nids come from a different galaxy to everyone else. The fact that they had to move from that one to the Imperium's one means they've run out of food. They've already eaten at least one galaxy! There's a billion^billion of them, and that's if this is the second galaxy they've come to. They could have devoured hundreds of galaxies by 40k, and while the fleets they currently know about are being contained, even more splinters are devouring more galaxies. If every other army teamed up against them, they'd still fall eventually.
My answer: 'Nids.
My answer: 'Nids.
You don't know anything avout tactics or strategy do you? An defending army in homeland can win against an army threetimes bigger than itself. So 10Millions would win against 30Millions. Also there is a massive number of giant fortresses on Terra, AND the Emperors palace which is as big as Europe. You do know that it takes an awful lot of time to get past these "obstachles"? OK, Chaos could have bombarded the hell out of them but then it would have lasted longer and the three legions that were coming home would have beaten the Heretics ass off. Also I do not think there's enough ammo to bomb away a palace that is as big as Europe and is made of something stronger than concrete. They maybe would bomb away the coplexes on the ground, but never the catacombs.the_hessian said:
Also Thousand Sons didn't even want to fight the Emperor, they just defended some scietist planet against a loyal chapter, and Magnus the Red called for help in the warp and guess who came along to help him. Tzeench himself. This made the Thousand Sons a Chaos Legion.
Also the Crimson fists never really took part in the "First Inter-Legionary War"(if you want to talk oldstyle), because they're a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists. Yes there was this picture of them fighting the Sons of Horus but Games Workshop apologized for that and said the made a mistake, because the crimson fists didn't exist untill the end of the "First Inter-Legionary War".
Ans yes, there were as many Chaos followers as Imperials, but they all got their asses beaten, there was like the biggest tank battle in history and the Chaos renegades lost. And the plantes that were taken over were brought back to the light of the emperor right after the "First Inter-Legionary War".
All in all, you should take everything a Chaos player tells you with the same amount of salt as that what the writers tell you. My best friend is a chaos player and soe time ago he used to tell how the imperium should have lost the "First Inter-Legionary War" and how good chaos is and how the Imperium is doomed and stuff.
you do know there was only 10,000 marines in each legion?, i dont believe horus had more than 60,000 marines at his back during the siege of terra.
I find this talk of chaos a little insulting, the Hive Mind is a no exceptions, utterly powerful 'FU' to any warp related transmission, including chaos interference.
Chaos goes from God-fueled legions to men with less protective armor, and 'Nids just keep on chomping. The Hive Mind makes a mockery of chaos and the emperor, being so psychically powerful it simply blots them out. Necrons are the only real threat to the Tyranids, but it's a moot point because the 'Nids will never bother to fight something they cannot eat. Orks can only be Out-evolved, Tau were never a threat and any other race has already been proven to need to expend ridiculous amounts of their populace to halt just one Tyrannic hive fleet, which were only scouts to begin with!
Look, just lie down and we promise to reconstitute you as something impressive. Like a carnifex arm, or something.
Om. Nom. Nom.
Chaos goes from God-fueled legions to men with less protective armor, and 'Nids just keep on chomping. The Hive Mind makes a mockery of chaos and the emperor, being so psychically powerful it simply blots them out. Necrons are the only real threat to the Tyranids, but it's a moot point because the 'Nids will never bother to fight something they cannot eat. Orks can only be Out-evolved, Tau were never a threat and any other race has already been proven to need to expend ridiculous amounts of their populace to halt just one Tyrannic hive fleet, which were only scouts to begin with!
Look, just lie down and we promise to reconstitute you as something impressive. Like a carnifex arm, or something.
Om. Nom. Nom.
Tau are buggered then, with all of their brainwashing and Mega-Dictatorship they only barely come in under the Imperium for 'Most Blatantly Ingored Evil'. Besides, Nazis didn't evolve to blow your brains out with a living bullet from halfway across the continent, and then eat you to make more of themselves. Ghandhi never encountered a foe uncaring for territory or dominance, and Nid's don't care about holding land or an empire.hippo24 said:
It's hard to resist while digested. It's hard to fail when you have no concept of 'winning'.
People keep lauding the necrons ability to beat the Tyranids, but an unchanging force is inherently doomed against one with almost infinite ability to adapt. Add to that psychic might, something the C'tan are known to be *****-slapped by, and the Nid's v Necros showdown lasts only as long as it takes for Tyranids to evolve bioforms and strategies to defeat them.
I give it 6 months, until they either find all of the Tomb-Worlds and melt the sleeping necros with acid, or just get fed up with their annoying metal buts and quit the galaxy. In either case, Nid's achieve their objective... leave with a fuller stomach.
I personally beleive that the Tyranids would win:
1. the Tyranids are an all consuming race and if it wasnt for reinforcements the would have destroyed macragge
2.The only person who could stop them was Kryptman,who, because of the herectius order his methods are no longer used
3.Because of the hive mind the tyranids work as a whole and therefore more destruction can be acheivied.
4.if you look at some of games work shops writings about the Tyranids then you will know the tyranids work like this:
-send scouts down to survey possible food sources(eg. lictors hermagaunts,tormagaunts)
-begin attack and send most of force in
-if dinner is held up in a defend structure then send rippers to dig under the walls and eat then gargoyles to fly over and shoot
-after main threat has been destroyed take bodies of both friend and foe and dump in digestion pool.
-tubes come down from hive fleet and eat the gooey mess
-leaving barren planet which has not got any sane reasons for the imperium to retake.
1. the Tyranids are an all consuming race and if it wasnt for reinforcements the would have destroyed macragge
2.The only person who could stop them was Kryptman,who, because of the herectius order his methods are no longer used
3.Because of the hive mind the tyranids work as a whole and therefore more destruction can be acheivied.
4.if you look at some of games work shops writings about the Tyranids then you will know the tyranids work like this:
-send scouts down to survey possible food sources(eg. lictors hermagaunts,tormagaunts)
-begin attack and send most of force in
-if dinner is held up in a defend structure then send rippers to dig under the walls and eat then gargoyles to fly over and shoot
-after main threat has been destroyed take bodies of both friend and foe and dump in digestion pool.
-tubes come down from hive fleet and eat the gooey mess
-leaving barren planet which has not got any sane reasons for the imperium to retake.
It seems like if there would be a victor than there would be one already. It's just a perpetual, on-going war, kind of like the multiplayer for a World War 2 game, you'd think the war would end already but it just keeps going for billions of battles and a seemingly endless supply of troops.
Like it has been said before, the war in 40K is endless because all the sides are balanced. They also have over 16 years of backstory that was written and re-written across the versions. I've personally played all the sides in the game, including a squat army under Rogue Trader, so I feel I can state the following:
No one force will ever 'win' and end all the fighting in the galaxy. Each has strengths and weaknesses according to their background.
The Eldar were a galaxy spanning race that fought against the old forces and were barely able to push the Necrons and other dark things into slumber. The eldar then destroyed themselves with the birth of the eye of chaos, becoming orphens on the run with scattered planets and craftworlds. They guard some of their old secrets and the warp ways they built in their height but they are a dying race. Birth rates are down, the losses to war in the little actions to save relics are not being replaced. If they were in a fictional movie they would be the old man who will die in order to allow the rest of the group to continue in the name of his honour.
The Dark eldar are hunted by the forces of Slaanesh. They are the survivors of the birth of chaos and they live always on the edge knowing when the end comes for them their pain really begins. Without the numbers to control the physical world they raid others to buy time for themselves to continue on. They are not in a position to win and if they were in a fictional movie this would the relative of the old man who works against the heroes and knows were all the bodies are buried.
The Imperium itself can never control the galaxy as it is too prone to corruption and infighting. Even if the forces of chaos do not taint the leaders the people they command must also be pure and so on down the chain. They might eliminate all the other races or force them into the empire but they would then split once more into fractions. In my movie theme they would be the veteran character who you know is going to die or be left behind in the movie. They may circle back to jump out of the shadows at the last moment, but no overwhelming victory for them.
The Tau are the young race, the ones that may eventually spread across the galaxy but not yet. They are powerful but short on numbers and critically lacking experience. They have a small pocket in the galaxy between the orks and the imperium and in the path of the tyrannids. They also have a dark history of mind control and twisting to be the dark communist of fiction. If it is for the greater good a thousand children would be surrendered without delay. Assuming the Tau are able to survive and grow they could be the future but it's more likely they are going to be crushed. In my movie example the Tau would be the naive innocent young hero who movies all that he was told by his eldars and is going to learn before the end of the movie they lied to him.
The orks were built to be guardians of a race that fell before the rise of the eldar. As a race they will be around until every scrap of them is eliminated across the whole galaxy. The Tyrannids and the Necrons both would, if they won, attempt to do this to the orks but no other race has the tech nor the drive to completely overcome the orks. The orks may one day control all of the galaxy, but they would never rule it. Instead they would fall to infighting between themselves, each ork knowing that he should be giving the orders. The orks are the simple foes in a movie, the comic relief foes that make silly noises before they die.
Tyrannids are a growing threat in the galaxy. In some of the early versions of the background a genestealer colony would call out to the tyrannids to bring them to the planet like a beacon. Even furthur back they suggested that such a colony had arisen in the ruins of Earth itself. (Outside of the fortress of the empire, in the camps of those who travel to see the fortress once before they die) The tyrannids are going to smash into the disc of the galaxy from below, running from something or perhaps exploring from another galaxy. Either way the tyrannids would seek to consume the whole galaxy but be unable to eat the living metal of the necrons. In movies these are the 'mindless yet clever and herding' horde monster you can't communicate with regardless of how you try because it doesn't care.
The necrons gave themselves to a deathless existance in order to clear out the galaxy. They were either put to sleep or returned to their slumber by the eldar at the height of their power, as even the eldar couldn't destroy them. An unknown number of worlds are their tombs, guarded by their deathless yet sleeping troops. When I necron falls his body is returned to the tomb to be restored. Age and damage to the systems of the tombs as resulted in some tombs themselves becoming weak. Others have awakened and see the horrors that has become of across the world. (Keep in mind that the low level necrons are mindless, basically skeletons moved by the will of the lord who raised them like traditional fantasy undead) As the lords of the necrons awake they will awake those above them to order more troops to their control. They would seek to destroy everything but once they believe all has been slayen they would return to sleep again. If you can't drive them back into slumber then hiding from them until have lost interest in the physical plane once more (cleaning planets of all life in the process) and then coming out would work. The necrons and the tyrannids have the same goal but the necrons would not be willing to tolerate the tyrannids and the tyrannids would not be able to profit from a battle with the necrons. In the movie these would be the skeletons and zombie like creatures marching without fear or even reaction to the heroes who then leave for no clearly understood reason.
-- out of background story the tyrannid vs necron battles are ugly as the tyrannids are able to just pull down the necrons and dance on them, but given the power of the necrons in the background the fight between the two races would be more even --
Chaos is seen in many forms in the 40K universe. The daemons of chaos can strike anywhere in the galaxy without warning. The chaos marines hide in the eye of chaos has the tomb of eldar is a hole in reality itself. Inside and round this hole the physical laws are warped and twisted. Any foe seeking to enter the eye would be facing a foe on his own turf and often with strange rules working against them. On one world an ork warband is restored to life each day to fight a battle against the khorne forces there to the amusement of the blood god. The chaos forces themselves may one day smash the universe but the war between itself would never end. In the movie Chaos would be the traitors or other twisted and evil for no good reason foes. You know, the onces that kick puppies into ovens on the way out the door, not even staying to eat it for a snack.
--
I have to say that I like the balance in the 40K world much better then how it exists in warhammer fantasy. In 40K each race as a reason to fight each other or even itself. In fantasy they have a more traditional good guy/bad guy set-up.
No one force will ever 'win' and end all the fighting in the galaxy. Each has strengths and weaknesses according to their background.
The Eldar were a galaxy spanning race that fought against the old forces and were barely able to push the Necrons and other dark things into slumber. The eldar then destroyed themselves with the birth of the eye of chaos, becoming orphens on the run with scattered planets and craftworlds. They guard some of their old secrets and the warp ways they built in their height but they are a dying race. Birth rates are down, the losses to war in the little actions to save relics are not being replaced. If they were in a fictional movie they would be the old man who will die in order to allow the rest of the group to continue in the name of his honour.
The Dark eldar are hunted by the forces of Slaanesh. They are the survivors of the birth of chaos and they live always on the edge knowing when the end comes for them their pain really begins. Without the numbers to control the physical world they raid others to buy time for themselves to continue on. They are not in a position to win and if they were in a fictional movie this would the relative of the old man who works against the heroes and knows were all the bodies are buried.
The Imperium itself can never control the galaxy as it is too prone to corruption and infighting. Even if the forces of chaos do not taint the leaders the people they command must also be pure and so on down the chain. They might eliminate all the other races or force them into the empire but they would then split once more into fractions. In my movie theme they would be the veteran character who you know is going to die or be left behind in the movie. They may circle back to jump out of the shadows at the last moment, but no overwhelming victory for them.
The Tau are the young race, the ones that may eventually spread across the galaxy but not yet. They are powerful but short on numbers and critically lacking experience. They have a small pocket in the galaxy between the orks and the imperium and in the path of the tyrannids. They also have a dark history of mind control and twisting to be the dark communist of fiction. If it is for the greater good a thousand children would be surrendered without delay. Assuming the Tau are able to survive and grow they could be the future but it's more likely they are going to be crushed. In my movie example the Tau would be the naive innocent young hero who movies all that he was told by his eldars and is going to learn before the end of the movie they lied to him.
The orks were built to be guardians of a race that fell before the rise of the eldar. As a race they will be around until every scrap of them is eliminated across the whole galaxy. The Tyrannids and the Necrons both would, if they won, attempt to do this to the orks but no other race has the tech nor the drive to completely overcome the orks. The orks may one day control all of the galaxy, but they would never rule it. Instead they would fall to infighting between themselves, each ork knowing that he should be giving the orders. The orks are the simple foes in a movie, the comic relief foes that make silly noises before they die.
Tyrannids are a growing threat in the galaxy. In some of the early versions of the background a genestealer colony would call out to the tyrannids to bring them to the planet like a beacon. Even furthur back they suggested that such a colony had arisen in the ruins of Earth itself. (Outside of the fortress of the empire, in the camps of those who travel to see the fortress once before they die) The tyrannids are going to smash into the disc of the galaxy from below, running from something or perhaps exploring from another galaxy. Either way the tyrannids would seek to consume the whole galaxy but be unable to eat the living metal of the necrons. In movies these are the 'mindless yet clever and herding' horde monster you can't communicate with regardless of how you try because it doesn't care.
The necrons gave themselves to a deathless existance in order to clear out the galaxy. They were either put to sleep or returned to their slumber by the eldar at the height of their power, as even the eldar couldn't destroy them. An unknown number of worlds are their tombs, guarded by their deathless yet sleeping troops. When I necron falls his body is returned to the tomb to be restored. Age and damage to the systems of the tombs as resulted in some tombs themselves becoming weak. Others have awakened and see the horrors that has become of across the world. (Keep in mind that the low level necrons are mindless, basically skeletons moved by the will of the lord who raised them like traditional fantasy undead) As the lords of the necrons awake they will awake those above them to order more troops to their control. They would seek to destroy everything but once they believe all has been slayen they would return to sleep again. If you can't drive them back into slumber then hiding from them until have lost interest in the physical plane once more (cleaning planets of all life in the process) and then coming out would work. The necrons and the tyrannids have the same goal but the necrons would not be willing to tolerate the tyrannids and the tyrannids would not be able to profit from a battle with the necrons. In the movie these would be the skeletons and zombie like creatures marching without fear or even reaction to the heroes who then leave for no clearly understood reason.
-- out of background story the tyrannid vs necron battles are ugly as the tyrannids are able to just pull down the necrons and dance on them, but given the power of the necrons in the background the fight between the two races would be more even --
Chaos is seen in many forms in the 40K universe. The daemons of chaos can strike anywhere in the galaxy without warning. The chaos marines hide in the eye of chaos has the tomb of eldar is a hole in reality itself. Inside and round this hole the physical laws are warped and twisted. Any foe seeking to enter the eye would be facing a foe on his own turf and often with strange rules working against them. On one world an ork warband is restored to life each day to fight a battle against the khorne forces there to the amusement of the blood god. The chaos forces themselves may one day smash the universe but the war between itself would never end. In the movie Chaos would be the traitors or other twisted and evil for no good reason foes. You know, the onces that kick puppies into ovens on the way out the door, not even staying to eat it for a snack.
--
I have to say that I like the balance in the 40K world much better then how it exists in warhammer fantasy. In 40K each race as a reason to fight each other or even itself. In fantasy they have a more traditional good guy/bad guy set-up.
I would say tyranids, however they wouldn't really 'win' as their just looking for anything that they can eat.
So many writers have done bits and pieces for 40K's history that it becomes a puzzle to work through it all. Sometimes going through the older books you will find a statement that goes against entire books later. Rogue Trader had the c'tan as a orangutan-like species with an unnatural ablility to create technology and now they are the godlike creatures that corrupted the species that would become the necrons.
I personally haven't read most of the novels as I find them too fanboyish. The book will have the side they are written from the viewpoint of being all powerful and victorious. Lasguns in the hands of guardsmen cutting down chaos marines left and right, then a pair of space marine footmen swarming and taking down a carnifex as if it was something they did before breakfast each day. But if you want a popcorn book they can be a nice break. Just don't compare the books to the rules for the wargame
Oh and don't try to take every statement made in the books as fact and instead think of them as what people believe to be the case instead of truth.
I personally haven't read most of the novels as I find them too fanboyish. The book will have the side they are written from the viewpoint of being all powerful and victorious. Lasguns in the hands of guardsmen cutting down chaos marines left and right, then a pair of space marine footmen swarming and taking down a carnifex as if it was something they did before breakfast each day. But if you want a popcorn book they can be a nice break. Just don't compare the books to the rules for the wargame
Oh and don't try to take every statement made in the books as fact and instead think of them as what people believe to be the case instead of truth.
Kais, thank god, I just had this horrible image of an Earth caste sat there with a curcuit board.the_hessian said:
its been a wile since i played but im gonna have to say the ultra marines they are the S.A.S of 40k