Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?
- Thread starter Silverblade
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What if I don't like personality, backstory, and all of that? Just because you happen to like it you are telling developers they should include it, so the rest of us who don't like it have to suffer. It's like have an Arnold Schwarzenneger movie and saying the creators are terrible for making it only explosions and fighting, when it should be meaningful relationships, philosophical exposition and character development.Caramel Frappe said:
Some of us just want explosions.
Are you really trying to criticise a brawler for having shallow characters? Really? This game's a throwback to old Dungeons & Dragons beat-em-ups. The characters don't need depth, they just need personality - which the Dragon's Crown roster has aplenty.Caramel Frappe said:
Captcha: on the ball. Thanks captcha.
Yes, you are, as are all of those who are fans of large breasts. One day, there will be a great and righteous purging, probably involving nuclear fire, and only the noble small breast fans will remain.
Your day of reckoning is coming!
Your day of reckoning is coming!
This hand wringing about the depiction of women in video gaming is in vogue right now, don't worry and just ignore any of the conversation you feel isn't worth anything to you.
I personally love that aethetic. I surely wouldn't want it in EVERY game, but I love heavily stylized art like this. The games are getting released and people are buying them, so just ignore the people who are jumping on a bandwagon because it brings hits.
That is really what a lot of this boils down to. The way this free web games coverage industry works is that you need a ton of hits from the right people to get top ad dollar per your 1000 impressions, aka "clicks". Have you seen the comments sections on articles that deal with this stuff? They blow up. It riles people and gets them reading the article, sharing it, commenting, etc. Once people get bored with a new "feminism in gaming" thread every week you'll see the frequency of these things go down.
Lastly, sales are what really matter to publishers. Remember the bust for Dead Island's Collector's Edition? Well when the "controversy" erupted online around it Deep Silver apologized for it. Then promptly shipped out the collector's edition with the bust included. So don't worry that things you love will disappear from gaming, for better or worse if it sells it will be offered.
I personally love that aethetic. I surely wouldn't want it in EVERY game, but I love heavily stylized art like this. The games are getting released and people are buying them, so just ignore the people who are jumping on a bandwagon because it brings hits.
That is really what a lot of this boils down to. The way this free web games coverage industry works is that you need a ton of hits from the right people to get top ad dollar per your 1000 impressions, aka "clicks". Have you seen the comments sections on articles that deal with this stuff? They blow up. It riles people and gets them reading the article, sharing it, commenting, etc. Once people get bored with a new "feminism in gaming" thread every week you'll see the frequency of these things go down.
Lastly, sales are what really matter to publishers. Remember the bust for Dead Island's Collector's Edition? Well when the "controversy" erupted online around it Deep Silver apologized for it. Then promptly shipped out the collector's edition with the bust included. So don't worry that things you love will disappear from gaming, for better or worse if it sells it will be offered.
You aren't a terrible, but the game might be.
A key part of understanding this stuff is remembering that you can enjoy whatever you like. People enjoy violent, vile, racist, sexist schlock; it's just how it is. But you should always try to ask yourself, "why am I enjoying this?" It's not innately tied to your character, I'd take it - you don't define yourself as "likes large breasts" - but questioning what you like and why you like it is never a bad thing. Introspection.
We all have enjoyed something in the past that is "bad," for one reason or another. Whether it be something which is bad in a legitimately evil way - something sexist, homophobic, racist, misogynistic - or something that's bad in qualitative terms, like The Room or Troll 2. That doesn't make us bad people, and it doesn't mean our standards are low, either. It means we like what we like. A core tenant of all this equality stuff is understanding that, yes, some of the stuff I like is rather awful, but that's okay.
Same with the violence debate. I fuckin' love first-person shooters, but I ain't gonna shoot anyone in real life, right? Taste in fictional media doesn't work that way.
A key part of understanding this stuff is remembering that you can enjoy whatever you like. People enjoy violent, vile, racist, sexist schlock; it's just how it is. But you should always try to ask yourself, "why am I enjoying this?" It's not innately tied to your character, I'd take it - you don't define yourself as "likes large breasts" - but questioning what you like and why you like it is never a bad thing. Introspection.
We all have enjoyed something in the past that is "bad," for one reason or another. Whether it be something which is bad in a legitimately evil way - something sexist, homophobic, racist, misogynistic - or something that's bad in qualitative terms, like The Room or Troll 2. That doesn't make us bad people, and it doesn't mean our standards are low, either. It means we like what we like. A core tenant of all this equality stuff is understanding that, yes, some of the stuff I like is rather awful, but that's okay.
Same with the violence debate. I fuckin' love first-person shooters, but I ain't gonna shoot anyone in real life, right? Taste in fictional media doesn't work that way.
You're not a bad person for having an aesthetic taste or a sexual attraction to certain body types, and I don't think anyone's really saying you are, the debate on the Dragon's Crown thing as well as the Hitman controversy wasn't about people liking the aesthetic look of the characters in question, it was about the way women are represented in our hobby/culture.
The proportions of the character designs in Dragon's Crown were unabashedly pandery and hella sexualized, plain and simple, and in a vacuum that would be just fine, but they're not, and therein lies the problem. Human beings are not proportioned that way, it's simply a medical impossibility, I think the guys behind Dragon's Crown knew that going in and were going for something of a parody of the fantasy tropes the genera tends to revolve around, but the problem is that they played all the trailers and promotional stuff straight and that sent a very mixed message (plus that slap fight the character designer had with that journalist a while back didn't exactly paint them in the best of light)
Also, the absence of non-sexualized, non-steriotypical, non-pandery female characters in our medium makes it just sting that much more when you see something like this pop up into the collective radar. Now I'd really like to say that the majority of people most likely to realize the difference between the body of an actual girl and that which is displayed in video games/ Anime/ what have you, but I've been on the internet long enough to know better, so what we have is guys developing unrealistic standards of women, and young women developing unrealistic standards for themselves.
That right there is what this whole debate is about, not personal aesthetic preference or whether it is or is not "correct" to like something, hell I spend all my time on Tumblr so I happen to know from personal experience that many many feminists love them some large boobs, so no, you're not a bad person and nobody (who knows what they're talking about) is saying you are.
The proportions of the character designs in Dragon's Crown were unabashedly pandery and hella sexualized, plain and simple, and in a vacuum that would be just fine, but they're not, and therein lies the problem. Human beings are not proportioned that way, it's simply a medical impossibility, I think the guys behind Dragon's Crown knew that going in and were going for something of a parody of the fantasy tropes the genera tends to revolve around, but the problem is that they played all the trailers and promotional stuff straight and that sent a very mixed message (plus that slap fight the character designer had with that journalist a while back didn't exactly paint them in the best of light)
Also, the absence of non-sexualized, non-steriotypical, non-pandery female characters in our medium makes it just sting that much more when you see something like this pop up into the collective radar. Now I'd really like to say that the majority of people most likely to realize the difference between the body of an actual girl and that which is displayed in video games/ Anime/ what have you, but I've been on the internet long enough to know better, so what we have is guys developing unrealistic standards of women, and young women developing unrealistic standards for themselves.
That right there is what this whole debate is about, not personal aesthetic preference or whether it is or is not "correct" to like something, hell I spend all my time on Tumblr so I happen to know from personal experience that many many feminists love them some large boobs, so no, you're not a bad person and nobody (who knows what they're talking about) is saying you are.
No. You are not a bad person.
Furthermore do not let your enjoyment to be bogged down by white knights and moral crusaders. Theres no reason for you to feel guilt over enjoying entertainment.
Leave the debating and arguing to people who are already incapable of enjoying it in the first place.
Furthermore do not let your enjoyment to be bogged down by white knights and moral crusaders. Theres no reason for you to feel guilt over enjoying entertainment.
Leave the debating and arguing to people who are already incapable of enjoying it in the first place.
No offense taken (why would I be offended?) I just didn't think your criticism was particularly valid (i.e. the devs took the "easy route" by paying homage to a specific style of game). Having long-arse cutscenes or meaningful choices to develop character would only stifle the pace of the game and be ultimately detrimental. People just want to grab an eccentric character and start beating up some monsters.Caramel Frappe said:
Also, Pacific Rim sucked.
I'm glad you acknowledge that a person is entitled to his sexual attractions, but I have one problem with this sentence. While Dragon's Crown was generally marketed to everybody, the same cannot be said of every video game that people have been complaining about lately. For example, Dead or Alive.DugMachine said:
Women don't necessarily wanna play jiggly chicks. (Well, some women do, actually. And not always lesbians either. But that's beside the point.) However, Dead or Alive wasn't made for them. Every advertisement and trailer for Dead or Alive 5 shows off the women and the jiggle physics, so I think Team Ninja did an effective job of making it clear that they are targeting only one demographic: People attracted to unrealistic women. And a lot of men aren't into unrealistic women, but Dead or Alive 5 wasn't made for them either.
And there's nothing wrong with that. It's ill-advised from a profits perspective to limit your audience, but it's not morally wrong. Fantasizing is a natural thing, and there's nothing wrong with using video games as an aid to help with that. You're supposed to explore your sexuality. It's healthy to have a good relationship with pleasure. And I think and hope that some day we will have every kind of game for every kind of sexual preference. I would love to see "Dude or Alive" come out, a game full of attractive pretty boys meant to entice girls. But more than that, I think we could have games that sexualize every variation in body type that enjoys a significant sexual audience. Short people, tall people, big people, small people, skinny people, and fat people.
If you make a game that's primarily meant to be eye candy to a specific demographic, I don't consider that wrong as long as you market it as such. It only becomes insulting and sexist when you try to market it to everybody as if the demographic being sexualized would enjoy it too. Dead or Alive was marketed just to that specific horny male demographic, so I don't feel they were bullshitting anybody about what the game is. But what about Dragon's Crown? Can we really say that Dragon's Crown was made for just one demographic? Sure there are sexy women, but it is meant to be exaggerated as a homage rather than to sell more tissues, and it's not like sexy women are the only kinds of women in the game. So I don't necessarily think they screwed up by marketing the game to everybody.
To address the issue at hand in this topic, the primary issue with sexism is not that sexy women merely exist. Sexy =/= sexist. The problem is that they are the majority. It's okay to have sexy women. It's okay to have sexy women purely for eye candy. It's okay to have unrealistic sexy women with unrealistic jiggle physics purely for eye candy. The issue is not that a lot of video games target sexuality, the issue is that it's nowhere near equal. There's not enough unrealistic sexy men, and generally when women are attracted to a sexy game dude, it was unintentional. (See: Dante.) And on the flip side, there aren't enough well-written or strong female characters. What we need is not a total ban on sexy game women. What we need is to do sexuality evenly down the line, and to do strong characters equally down the line. And yes, there would definitely be a sexual market among women for attractive male characters.
The problem will not be solved by removing sexual content. We fought hard to get out of the puritan dark ages, and over my dead body are we going back. Sexuality is your friend. This panic about sexuality causing men to "normalize" their fantasies and impose those standards on real women is 99.9% bullshit. There are a few lonely losers out there who expect women to live up to unrealistic expectations, but the only people they're truly hurting are themselves. For the most part, fantasizing is healthy and natural and should be encouraged, not discouraged. We just need more options for women to do it too.
Is that 'story' the one about the thinly veiled vagina joke?CrazyCapnMorgan said:
OT: Eh, it's an over the top art style and not everything needs to be super serious. Too bad the guy had a douchey reaction to criticism.
Because some people feel the need to broadcast how progressive they are compared to other people.
I dont think its immature to like big breasts. Its natural to fantasize after extremes and ideals. I like the sorceress from Dragons crown I think its an entertaining idea from a land of free'er thought (Japan), I can sympathise with women not liking massive tits but it is only one character in the game, they can play as any of the others. I could see why women would have to complain if everyone in it had huge boobs, but that's not the case and it is also a pretty rare case.
I was shocked to see how many people cared so much about this one characters rack, its certainly impressive but it doesn't spell disrespect for women everywhere. There's a lot of talk of making gaming safer for girls and not alienating girls, and how gaming needs to stop being a safe male space. But are the odd pair of large tits really going to putt women off completely? I dont think so. Girls will still watch films and there are films out there with characters with big boobs, so why does gaming need to jump through so many hoops in order to satisfy everyone?
although apparently all the contributors on this site disagree especially Critical Miss (the enemy of misogyny and hero of women everywhere).
p.s
Hey Critical Miss! if you turn this into an idea for your next comic please draw me as one of those, long thin creepy nerds adjusting his glasses which are reflecting the light concealing his eyes.
I dont think its immature to like big breasts. Its natural to fantasize after extremes and ideals. I like the sorceress from Dragons crown I think its an entertaining idea from a land of free'er thought (Japan), I can sympathise with women not liking massive tits but it is only one character in the game, they can play as any of the others. I could see why women would have to complain if everyone in it had huge boobs, but that's not the case and it is also a pretty rare case.
I was shocked to see how many people cared so much about this one characters rack, its certainly impressive but it doesn't spell disrespect for women everywhere. There's a lot of talk of making gaming safer for girls and not alienating girls, and how gaming needs to stop being a safe male space. But are the odd pair of large tits really going to putt women off completely? I dont think so. Girls will still watch films and there are films out there with characters with big boobs, so why does gaming need to jump through so many hoops in order to satisfy everyone?
although apparently all the contributors on this site disagree especially Critical Miss (the enemy of misogyny and hero of women everywhere).
p.s
Hey Critical Miss! if you turn this into an idea for your next comic please draw me as one of those, long thin creepy nerds adjusting his glasses which are reflecting the light concealing his eyes.
There's never anything wrong with enjoying the boobies, great or small.
Personally the problem arises when they're used to sell games in place of the actual game, "Our game might not be all that engaging but looook... BOOBIES!!"
Dragon's Crown wouldn't have garnered nearly as much attention if the Sorceress and the Amazon wore tracksuits for example.
It's just tiresome and, in most cases, cringe-worthy. (Dragon's Crown "poking" mini-game, I'm looking at you...)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against characters with "well formed" figures, but when you build a character up purely around the premise of T & A it generally leaves them wanting when it comes to actual depth and characterisation.
Once the shine from their cleavage has worn off they're generally dull and uninteresting.
At the end of the day it's a coldly calculated marketing ploy for teenage guys, much the same way Twilight was for teenage girls.
Personally the problem arises when they're used to sell games in place of the actual game, "Our game might not be all that engaging but looook... BOOBIES!!"
Dragon's Crown wouldn't have garnered nearly as much attention if the Sorceress and the Amazon wore tracksuits for example.
It's just tiresome and, in most cases, cringe-worthy. (Dragon's Crown "poking" mini-game, I'm looking at you...)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against characters with "well formed" figures, but when you build a character up purely around the premise of T & A it generally leaves them wanting when it comes to actual depth and characterisation.
Once the shine from their cleavage has worn off they're generally dull and uninteresting.
At the end of the day it's a coldly calculated marketing ploy for teenage guys, much the same way Twilight was for teenage girls.
Eh, I see 'liking big boobs' as being on the same level as 'liking blondes' or 'liking green eyes'. It's just an aesthetic preference that someone happens to have. Having said that, you're a bit of a nutter if you completely shut off your dating pool to any girl with a chest smaller than an F-cup.
