Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

[Smeatza]

No you're not a bad person.
Do you know who the bad people are?
The ones who will try and convince you that you are a terrible person, who's doing objectively bad things, purely to try and satisfy their own insecurities.

 

[lacktheknack]

I'm pretty sure we're both of us are not part of "the average gamer." since they're probibly like "Heh the witch $#%$ has a Huge rack man." wilst we are engaging in mental rock'em sock'em robots.

I have a streak of idealism that keeps getting crushed. D:

I can't believe we're still going on about this. Unless the story is about womanly issues, such as periods or pregnancy, there's no adequate reason that being a guy would cut you off from writing a good story with a female protagonist.

Michel Ancel and Jacques Extertier didn't have issues with Jade.

Marc Laidlaw had no issues with secondary character Alyx in Half Life.

Erik Wolpaw brought us Chell and GLaDoS, one of which is one of gaming's great villains.

Rhianna Pratchett wrote Mirror's Edge and the new Tomb Raider, yes, but look at them good and hard and tell me what insights they gave us about women. Answer: Pretty much none, because their roles could have been filled by men without adding or losing anything (other than brand name recognition in Tomb Raider's case). There's nothing about the stories that you need to be a woman to "understand".

You forgot Ayla, Tali, Morrigon, Terra, Cortana, and other great characters who are women, but for every Lucca you have dozens of Sophie(s) or Ayumi(s)(From X-blade) who are poorly characterized. And if memory serves me right Lara Croft Started as Indiana Jones but with boobs, so depth can be added after inception.

Being a guy is not a barrier per say, look at Hayo Miyazaki, most of his protagonists are female and superbly well done. But, most authors have the heroes of their stories be their gender even if the story has nothing to do with gender issues. It's more of a comfort thing than a barrier to entry. If my Literature professor taught me anything, it was that you can tell when something is written by a guy or a girl by some of the subtleties in focus and other things.

You're implicitly agreeing with me that gaming needs more good female characters, not more "BEEEEWBZ". And yes, early Lara Croft was Indiana Jones with boobs and less personality, which is why I cite the newest Lara Croft as a good female character, because she's a young adult with normal proportions who gets scared, gets (unconvincingly) aggressive, feels pain, and does irrational things because of loyalty. She's a good character, breasts or no. The only "unrealistic" part of her is that she has a hilarious healing factor.

As for comfort zones, well, all my best projects come from me saying "Screw it, I'm trying something entirely different". Maybe gaming should try that.

Aaaaaaaand that's exactly what I'm getting tired of. That's my whole point.I know if I were staring at the same women from 9 to 5, for months, I'd at least make kinda attractive

Well hey, Jade was pretty attractive. I'm not saying realistic characters are unattractive. I wouldn't be attracted to my girlfriend if that was the case, would I?

Felicia is buck naked, and a Nun.

But on a more serious note, Hammer from Fable 2 was well written and ugly as sin. Great character that was meant to be a friend and that's it. and as someone on the Lionhead forums after Fable 2 hit, they hated her with a fiery passion because she was fugly. So to placate the masses Mur Flirt is a knock out. It's sad and I left there because of that kind of lunacy.

I guess we are closer to the same page than I first thought.


In Dragon Crown's case, I walked into Pacific Rim and got softcore porn with robots punching monsters in the face.

That's why I don't take issue with Dead or Alive, at least it's not pretending to be more than it is.

You act like I take issue with Dragon's Crown as a game. I don't. Rayman Origins was six or seven giant barrels of fun, and there's no reason this one couldn't be either. But in Rayman, at least it actually tried to be flashy and interesting in a way that isn't so blitheringly irritating and vapid as "This woman has HH cups, commence staring". And don't tell me that wasn't something it was going for, or it wouldn't have put her in that dress and advertised her with that pose.

I dare say that's they point, they(The team behind Dragon's Crown) were going for a very Frank Frazetta style with all of the characters, and that how he (and artists like him) drew both men and women as hyper-sexualized characters. Not even Arnold looks like Conan

I've seen a lot of "apologetics" saying that the game is supposed to be focused on the gameplay with the character designs being a mere side-note rather than a focus. I believed them. If that's not the case, and this is supposed to be more of a Dead or Alive situation, then I don't have such a big problem with it.


I mean, look at this. Just Google "Dragon's Crown", check the image search, and count the Sorceresses (for bonus points, toss in the Amazon). If this game intended to be anything other than a boob-centric leering romp, we've done a spectacularly bad job of portraying it as anything else.[/quote]Crucifing the game because of the inormiment amount of images of one of the more attractive characters whom their was a controversy over is like executing someone for jay walking. If the United Dwarfs of America said the Dwarf character was raisist and a controvery blew up because of that then He would be the most prevalent picture out their for a while.[/quote]

Touche.

I still find it interesting, though, that even almost all the gameplay screens have the Amazon and/or the Sorceress in them. I wish they'd focus on the other characters in action.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

On a related note and as a question: I have a pink 3DS. Does this make me a bad/weird person?

It makes you an unusual person. I would go so far to say strange or weird, but those tend to convey negativity or disapproval. You clearly don't care what society thinks of your color choices, which a lot of people find rebellious and threatening.

Also, I wrote the post assuming you are male. Which you may not be; I only just considered it.

I am indeed male. I am also 32 years old. My color choice was inspired because of that "negativity" and "disapproval". Many people, both friend and stranger alike, questioned me about it; often they asked if I was a homosexual. I have a nice little story about the reason behind my purchase, if you'd like to hear it.

Is that 'story' the one about the thinly veiled vagina joke?

OT: Eh, it's an over the top art style and not everything needs to be super serious. Too bad the guy had a douchey reaction to criticism.

It involves vagina, yes, but it's more of a sexuality joke than anything else. I assume that since you asked, then I've told this story once before? I must have forgotten telling it on this forum.

 

[Mikeyfell]

This week I watched the review of Dragon Crown and read the Critical Miss comic about it and there were a lot of people posting about how bad/stupid/disgusting the female body shapes were in the game. And I remember there was a similar uproar awhile ago about that Hitman: Absolution trailer where Agent 47 fights a bunch of stripperiffic nun assassins.

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Memuz de shet 'n unwewuwishtic standud v boody vo wemem

NO, you're not a bad person.

Have you ever seen someone criticize something that's otherwise widely popular and some ass hat in the forums says "All I here is 'stop liking what I don't like'"

Well, as much as I hate that stupid saying that's exactly what's going on in regards to overtly sexy character models.

Frankly I'm not a fan of GIGANTIC boobs like the ones on the Sorceress in Dragon's Crown. (I'm a fan of the Elf,) But there is no shame in loving gravity defying boobs, or fetishized stripper nuns with rocket launchers.

But, there are those people who say stuff like "You get turned on by cartoons? ******!"
And those people... are missing out!

Basically you have to care less about what others thing, when ever they try to tell you your personal preference is morally wrong, just laugh [sub]and bottle up the little twinge of self doubt you get until you snap and burn their house to the ground[/sub][sub][sub]Burn! Burn! Burn it all![/sub][/sub]

 

[DRTJR]

I have a streak of idealism that keeps getting crushed. D:

You're implicitly agreeing with me that gaming needs more good female characters, not more "BEEEEWBZ". And yes, early Lara Croft was Indiana Jones with boobs and less personality, which is why I cite the newest Lara Croft as a good female character, because she's a young adult with normal proportions who gets scared, gets (unconvincingly) aggressive, feels pain, and does irrational things because of loyalty. She's a good character, breasts or no. The only "unrealistic" part of her is that she has a hilarious healing factor.

As for comfort zones, well, all my best projects come from me saying "Screw it, I'm trying something entirely different". Maybe gaming should try that.To each there own, but a lot of great works of art come from past experiences, like Shigeru Miyamoto or Guillermo Del Toro.

Well hey, Jade was pretty attractive. I'm not saying realistic characters are unattractive. I wouldn't be attracted to my girlfriend if that was the case, would I?Hey my girlfriend is also reasonably proportioned, and she's still a knock out in my book.

Felicia is buck naked, and a Nun.

But on a more serious note, Hammer from Fable 2 was well written and ugly as sin. Great character that was meant to be a friend and that's it. and as someone on the Lionhead forums after Fable 2 hit, they hated her with a fiery passion because she was fugly. So to placate the masses Mur Flirt is a knock out. It's sad and I left there because of that kind of lunacy.

I guess we are closer to the same page than I first thought.I like great stories and characters as well, I'm a huge Tali fan because of her personality, Liara seems on paper a character I'd adore but I HATE her. If there is a personality then it's important.

I've seen a lot of "apologetics" saying that the game is supposed to be focused on the gameplay with the character designs being a mere side-note rather than a focus. I believed them. If that's not the case, and this is supposed to be more of a Dead or Alive situation, then I don't have such a big problem with it.

To me the art-style evokes the kind of over the top art that books like John Carter of Mars and Conan the Barbarian had with everybody running around half naked and the women typically wearing clothes that would make most strippers blush. Hence the vast Tracks of Land and revealing clothing.

I still find it interesting, though, that even almost all the gameplay screens have the Amazon and/or the Sorceress in them. I wish they'd focus on the other characters in action.[/quote] Practical reason, the Sorceress is a ranged attacker and the Amazonian is a melee attacker, from which I've been told are two Super classes to which most conform to one or another. I wouldn't personally know I don't own any devise that can play it.

 

[Patathatapon]

I wouldn't say it makes you a bad person, it's more about (IMO anyway) that because of games like this, we get people like that sarkeesian girl saying were all hopeless assholes who only think of women as objects.

And to be completely honest, anything overly sexualized kind of turns me off. Mostly due to it being unrealistically stupid, and it seems to be trying so hard to get it up, it doesn't work at all. But hey, that's just me.

No, I'm not homosexual, there's nothing wrong with that, etc etc.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Im sure Japan has such a game. Even in that game the mens pecs are as big as the womans breasts. This whole breast thing is funny because we ***** and moan when its in a game but if a big breasted woman dressed like that in real life, no one would say a thing.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Whenever people say we need to get rid of big titty characters I can't help but think there are female gamers with big tits feeling pretty shitty. I'm not even really joking about that.

I also don't think it's at all shallow to be sexually attracted to these women. You're not going to treat them as sperm banks, right? You're gonna treat them as real people! But I do understand why some people think that being attracted to big tits and ass is now a bad thing, since a lot of people EXPLODE (heh) when this topic comes up, saying how disgusting it is that these women are in games and that they don't really exist and blah blah.

It would be nice to see some more diversity, though; that's what I'm in favour of and so is everyone else.

 

[Ticklefist]

Next time you interview for a job and they ask, "tell us something unique about yourself," tell them you like sexy nuns.

That should clear up any confusion.

 

[lacktheknack]

snip

Did... did we just come to some form of agreement and understanding? D8

This doesn't happen to me on the internet!

 

[DRTJR]

snip

Did... did we just come to some form of agreement and understanding? D8

This doesn't happen to me on the internet!

I know how dare we have concurrent opinions on a topic that is tangentially related to the one we were debating, clearly we are the true monsters.

 

[Paragon Fury]

You are a bad person if you think it's fine and dandy that there's such a strong expectation in society (and especially in nerd/gamer society) that women are obligated to be physically attractive to you.

As much of a bastard as its going to make me sound; this is the expectation because it is true. The ONE unique thing that females provide to humanity is directly connected to their body and is can only be readily seen through their physical appearance. A female's body is a depiction of her physical health, status and most importantly (for nature) her ability to bear and care for children. When that is the one thing you provide that is unique to your species, it becomes pretty damn important (especially in a highly visual animal like humanity).

"But what about males?" you cry. Why doesn't our physical appearance matter as much?

Answer: Because it doesn't provide anything anymore. Males don't actually provide anything unique to humanity - we're all equally expendable as far as nature and survival is concerned. Its both our blessing and our curse; we don't provide anything unique and irreplaceable on an individual level so we're free to try and find ways to MAKE ourselves unique and useful in any way we can. There isn't one universal litmus test nature can apply to us like it can for women, so we're allowed to make it up as we go.

So throughout humanity's development over time, males have been free to define themselves as they please while women have been stuck dealing with the fact that the one thing that makes them unique and useful as individuals is what also defines them and they haven't found a way to escape it because humanity hasn't invented its way out of it yet.

 

[Church185]

You're not a bad person. The problem is that liking these things is like masturbating or having sex. There's nothing wrong with it but there's a time and place for it. The thing that bugs me about the usage of these tropes is that more often than not they stuff characters in skimpy clothing and send them off on a battlefield along with heavily armored men. That's just...stupid.

Pfft, the only character in that game that is heavily armored (male or female) is the knight, which makes him look like an incredible pansy compared to the rest of the playable characters out there fighting monsters in their skivies (or at best in some kind of cloth garb).

 

[Angelblaze]

No, there's no problem with liking it.

There is however a problem with liking it and immediately decrying and refusing to support say, Final Fantasy's feminine male characters that are made for opposite gender titillation and/or claiming that said female character types are the only character body types females should have.

Note: Not saying this is what you are doing.

 

[EternallyBored]

No, there's no problem with liking it.

There is however a problem with liking it and immediately decrying and refusing to support say, Final Fantasy's feminine male characters that are made for opposite gender titillation and/or claiming that said female character types are the only character body types females should have.

Note: Not saying this is what you are doing.

On that note, am I a bad person for not finding FFXIII's androgynous emotionless-pit of nothing appealing? I also don't like the color pink on anyone, including girls.

Also, do western women find these "girly males" attractive? In the media I consume it seems to be big in Japan and South Korea, I wanted to know the opinion of others. To me it seems like they took the western metrosexual trend and went overboard with it.

Given the popularity of Boy bands, Justin Beiber, the Twilight Saga, and numerous other pieces of ludicrously popular western media I would say the effeminate male is definitely popular here to an extent. Maybe not as popular as in Asia, but that's hard to tell because most of what get's imported over here is stuff that sells; Hence why the effeminate Jpop and Kpop bands do have fairly large followings in the west.

Also with the popularity of anime and games that feature males like Sephiroth in the west, there's definitely a significant enough market that is being supplied to.

 

[generals3]

This week I watched the review of Dragon Crown and read the Critical Miss comic about it and there were a lot of people posting about how bad/stupid/disgusting the female body shapes were in the game. And I remember there was a similar uproar awhile ago about that Hitman: Absolution trailer where Agent 47 fights a bunch of stripperiffic nun assassins.

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Nono. You've got it all wrong. You're not a bad person, those who try to cater to your desires however absolutely are. (note the sarcasm at the end)

You see this whole debacle is nothing more than the age old "I want more of this!" or "I want less of this!" complaints. The only difference is that now instead of just stating these things as opinions people have decided to make their argument stronger by adding "sexusm!" at the end of it. The beauty about it is that instead of appearing as a selfish consumer who wants his needs to be catered to like everyone else they now appear to be some kind of Grand Crusaders Of Social Justice. (And people fall for it!)

 

[ShiningAmber]

No, you're not a bad person for liking those things.

It is bad though when that is all women are seen/allowed to be - objects. How would you feel if the tables were reversed?