Why are 'casual' games bad?

[Jimmy Jon Jon]

I suspect some of the more reasonable competitive players would object to that line of thought (or at least my telling of it), but yes.

Happen to love Big Blue, Hanenbow, Pirate Ship, and assist trophies, myself. Tried Melee again for the first time in a while a couple weeks ago, and the only things I actually miss are Pichu, Fourside, and Pokefloats. I just like the way Brawl handles much better...though admittedly, I can see why competitive players find it disappointing.

I loved Poke Floats. But I go online with brawl like crazy and 90% of the matches are always on Final Destination. No Spear Pillar. No Luigi's Mansion. No Warioware Inc. Just Final Destination.

I've been astoundingly lucky, so far (so far being "one excursion"). I managed to wind up picking the stage five times in a row...so I sent us to Shadow Moses, Skyworld, Hanenbow, Pirate Ship, and Pictochat!

I'm guessing that meant the others were just on random, or something.

Other people I've played with have been wonderful enough to not choose Final Destination all the time as well. The other stages are there for variety, and they have wonderful music you can't hear on Final Destination.

Also, I have no problem with casual games or gamers. They expand the market, and bring more people into gaming.

 

[Ocelot GT]

casual games are fun. some ppl just cry over them because they want every game to be the be all and end all of gaming which revolutionizes the industry.

 

[Aura Guardian]

cut

I play with the Wii more than 20 hours a day. And it's not Wii Sports I'm playing.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I suspect some of the more reasonable competitive players would object to that line of thought (or at least my telling of it), but yes.

Happen to love Big Blue, Hanenbow, Pirate Ship, and assist trophies, myself. Tried Melee again for the first time in a while a couple weeks ago, and the only things I actually miss are Pichu, Fourside, and Pokefloats. I just like the way Brawl handles much better...though admittedly, I can see why competitive players find it disappointing.

I loved Poke Floats. But I go online with brawl like crazy and 90% of the matches are always on Final Destination. No Spear Pillar. No Luigi's Mansion. No Warioware Inc. Just Final Destination.

I've been astoundingly lucky, so far (so far being "one excursion"). I managed to wind up picking the stage five times in a row...so I sent us to Shadow Moses, Skyworld, Hanenbow, Pirate Ship, and Pictochat!

I'm guessing that meant the others were just on random, or something.

I envy you

Ouch.

Gotta admit, though, those Captain Falcon matches were some serious fun to watch!

Other people I've played with have been wonderful enough to not choose Final Destination all the time as well. The other stages are there for variety, and they have wonderful music you can't hear on Final Destination.

Strangely enough, the music is one of the few things I like about that stage. The main Final Destination theme, at least.

Doesn't mean I'll ever pass up a chance to listen to Big Blue, Sonic Boom, or some of the Wind Waker themes, though. Hell, I even love Hanenbow's music, and it's just pretty sound effects.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Well first of all, how do you define casual? are you only talking about things like mario party and wii sports, or are you extending it as far as things like halo?
If it's the latter, they aren't. If it's the former it's mainly because they're well... bad. At least by comparison.

Let's look at a game like borderlands, which im playing as I type this. I have a huge environment to move around in, lots of different enemies to kill, I can play online with my friends, drive vehicles, my character gets stronger as the game progresses, there's tons of different guns, upgrades, and skills, and I will probably be playing it for a long time.

Now let's look at something like wii sports.
Ok, sure, boxing may be fun the first time, hell ALL of your little minigames may be fun at first, but how many of them are actually going to last? I have wii sports, and I thought it was pretty cool when I first got my wii. 2-3 hours later I got over the gimmick of the wiimote and I haven't touched it since except on a few isolated occasions when someone wanted to see the wii (I got it very soon after launch so it was considered fancy and new) I have no urge or desire to go play wii sports because it offers nothing new. If you've played tennis once you've played it a billion times. There is absolutely nothing you could see or experience in it that you haven't already before, and basically at the end of the day it all equates to "move the wiimote left and right" In a game like borderlands I can go back to and even though I may be fighting the same enemies, they're going to be in different places, they're going to react differently, every time a scenario arises a different course of action has to be taken.

Now, why is it a problem that games like wii sports exist? Well if you look at a game like borderlands it probably will be very easy to tell that it took a lot of programming to make a game like this, and the quality of the game is far superior to wii sports. But when games like wii fit can sell more copies than borderlands can, companies like nintendo will cease providing quality games because they can produce gimmicky crap much more easily and get more money out of it. As a result we have like 15 mario partys and a cubic shitload of "use your mii in some gimmicky minigames" type games, yet only one zelda game since the console's launch, and even then, TP was dumbed down a lot from wind waker because it would be too hard for your wii sport playing soccer mom.

 

[kawaiiamethist]

There are just as many bad hardcore games as there are bad casual games. The hardcores can only get away with it because they blind people with pretty graphics and gritty colours.

 

[Wintermoot]

maybe some people are scared that eventualy "hardcore" games would end up being pushed out I am not afraid of that

 

[Fodogz]

I'm not, but you don't get what I'm saying, I'm taking the view from the outside. Using every stereotype known to mankind about gamers. I put my argument in a way that gamers, and non-gamers can understand. To make it clearer I'm arguing by using what you said, said in a different way. (plus a little of my opinion) Turning your posts against you really, led by me on my white horse.

I'm not condescending I'm arguing the big picture, the bloody thread title.

Then please explain to me what you are saying. If you are arguing the thread title, and you are saying that there isn't anything wrong with casual games, then we are on the same side.

All I was doing was putting forth my distinction between what is known as a "hardcore" gamer and a "casual" gamer. A hardcore gamer is someone who puts a lot of work into his gaming life and is very proud of his accomplishments therein. A casual gamer is someone who comes home, puts a lot of work and time into his own hobby, such as working on the classic car he has in the garage or perhaps looking up player statistics for College Football and afterward hops on CoD for an hour with a friend or two. (I realize that my "frat boy" comment in my original post sounded bad, this came more from my dislike of frat boys then of casual gamers).

That's all. I don't see how this could bee seen as elitist or derogatory in any way.

But there is no need for a difference the economy is designed to supply to the largest audience. So if casual gamers exceed in numbers more than hardcore, they get more casual games. It's like the United States government layout when the democrats outweigh the republicans the democrats get more stuff they want. Vise Versa. This is going back to your original argument that casual gamers are bad for the economy, when actually they are not changing it at all.

You don't get how I'm stating my arguments in the past posts. I'm going to start my quotes now on with "wumts" What You Meant To Say.

 

[XJ-0461]

They're not bad. Me and some friends played Mario Kart Wii on New Year's Eve and we had a good time.

Also, some nintendo games get fucking difficult. It takes one, slight hit in Mario games for you to either loose whatever powerup you had or die imediately. Whereas in "hardcore" games you can take loads of damage and you can get all better by sitting behind a wall or rock for a few minutes.

Think about that.

 

[Chipperz]

Who is more hardcore? The child who plays Counterstrike for an hour a night and can only interact with people using the words "pwnt" and "noob", or the housewife who plays Bejewelled until she has more tactics than the North Korean military?

Let's got for a harder one, who's more hardcore? The student who bums off a few classes to play Halo : Combat Evolved (which wasn't me in 2004, honest...), or the husband and father who gives himself a bit of time every night between putting the kids to bed and helping with the washing up to play Tiger Woods because he loves the game?

Is the guy who gets up at 7 on his holiday to play World of Warcraft for twelve hours more casual than the guy who puts in for overtime to afford all four consoles faster?

The point is, hardcore means different things to different people. There are some people who would say that the kid is more hardcore than the housewife because he's playing Counterstrike and can spout the lingo, and there are some people who would say that the housewife was more hardcore because she puts in the kind of hours that would make her a top employee if she decided to use the same dedication in a job. I think of myself as a Hardcore gamer because I play a wide range of games on all four consoles, but there are some people who think of me as a casual gamer because I lump PCs in as "just another gaming device".

Ironically, I also think that as soon as you start thinking of a PC as "just something else for gaming", you're probably ready to call yourself a gamer.

The reason casual games are universally considered bad is because, no matter who's talking, that is what people think of them. My definition of "hardcore" is someone who owns (or is trying to own) every platform of a generation, and tries different games and genres, while my definition of a "casual" is someone who fixates on a single game or genre (usually FPS or RPG), and refuses to stray into unknown waters, and I can't think of anything worse to do as a gamer. Of course, this can (and probably will) be refuted by someone who believes that genre defines the gamer, and they have every right to.

 

[Pyode]

This is going back to your original argument that casual gamers are bad for the economy, when actually they are not changing it at all.

You don't get how I'm stating my arguments in the past posts. I'm going to start my quotes now on with "wumts" What You Meant To Say.

Um... perhaps you should recheck my posts. I never once said anything about casual games having any influence (good or bad) on the economy.

As for "what meant to say," just because you either don't understand or don't agree with what I am saying, doesn't mean you know "what I meant to say" better then I do. I said exactly what I meant to say in each of my posts and I wont appreciate you putting words in my mouth. How about you concentrate on posting your own thoughts as opposed to posting your misinterpretations of what I am saying.

 

[The_Deleted]

I'm sick to death of this whole casual gaming bollocks. You may as well moan about people reading Heat while you prefer Ayn Rand. Horses for courses.

 

[Kyle Hyde]

Because gamers are borderline racist in nature. For example: Console fanboys and people you meet in online multiplayer.

 

[Fodogz]

This is going back to your original argument that casual gamers are bad for the economy, when actually they are not changing it at all.

You don't get how I'm stating my arguments in the past posts. I'm going to start my quotes now on with "wumts" What You Meant To Say.

Um... perhaps you should recheck my posts. I never once said anything about casual games having any influence (good or bad) on the economy.

As for "what meant to say," just because you either don't understand or don't agree with what I am saying, doesn't mean you know "what I meant to say" better then I do. I said exactly what I meant to say in each of my posts and I wont appreciate you putting words in my mouth. How about you concentrate on posting your own thoughts as opposed to posting your misinterpretations of what I am saying.

sorry I was thinking of another thread. But back to me putting words in your mouth. No. I have to back track now (gotta watch myself) but this is what it can be interpreted as. My opinions are only drizzled over everything.

As to the angrer towards the putting words in your mouth. (Did Not!) If it is fisticuffs you are looking for I am in southeast asia. I shall meet you on the great wall of china at noon eastern standard time. If you are not there I declare forfeit.

 

[Pyode]

sorry I was thinking of another thread.

Fair enough.

As to the angrer towards the putting words in your mouth. (Did Not!)

I was simply referring to your "wumts" comment.

If it is fisticuffs you are looking for I am in southeast asia. I shall meet you on the great wall of china at noon eastern standard time. If you are not there I declare forfeit.

That's cool because noon EST was 2 hours before you made that post. I guess we both forfeit. lol

 

[Swaki]

i don't like the wii because i find motion control to be annoying, but i am uncertain of what casual means, for an example i love games with tons of story and puzzle adventure games, a friend of mine claims that those are casual, where as for me casual gamers are people with family (mainly) who don't have time to play longer and/or deeper games.

something my single, unemployed ass don't have to worry about.

but i don't think easy to pick up games, with simple game play and a story you can jump in and out of are bad, they are wonderful appetizers between heavy time consuming games.

 

[clairedelune]

If you dislike casual games, you have clearly never played Peggle,
I'm playing it right now!

 

[Swaki]

If it is fisticuffs you are looking for I am in southeast asia. I shall meet you on the great wall of china at noon eastern standard time. If you are not there I declare forfeit.

That's cool because noon EST was 2 hours before you made that post. I guess we both forfeit. lol

i think he is referring to noon EST tomorrow, makes much more sense, also it would give you a chance to jump on plane, if you leave now you should be i beijing in time for a tour bus to the wall, but since your on this forum i doubt neither of you are in any shape to walk up the stairs to the wall,much less to fist fight afterwards, don't feel about i though i actually went blind soon after getting up there.

 

[DrDeath3191]

i don't like the wii because i find motion control to be annoying, but i am uncertain of what casual means, for an example i love games with tons of story and puzzle adventure games, a friend of mine claims that those are casual, where as for me casual gamers are people with family (mainly) who don't have time to play longer and/or deeper games.

something my single, unemployed ass don't have to worry about.

but i don't think easy to pick up games, with simple game play and a story you can jump in and out of are bad, they are wonderful appetizers between heavy time consuming games.

We're talking about 'casual' games, not the Wii. And from what I can discern, 'casual' games are the pick-up and play types.