Why are people so against 'feminism' in gaming?

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DEAD34345

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I personally think it's because whenever feminists become vocal it's always about the most petty things. "Cheaper than your girlfriend!" Who cares? No-one is insulted, it's just a joke about how cheap your girlfriend is. If anything it is males that are being insulted. Would it have been OK if it said "Cheaper than your boyfriend!"? If so then why, surely that is uh... man-i-nist?

If some game came out in which the main character was a woman whose goal it was to "collect" a harem of men, or some such thing which "objectifies" men, would i care? Hell no! And I'd complain about any men who whined about it too.
 

kurupt87

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firstxaidxkit said:
RowdyRodimus said:
Think about it, how many times has a man been portrayed as competent in any aspect from making coffee to making love in commercials, tv shows or most movies? None.
LOLLLL
There's a difference between a competent person, and a person who is competent because of their sex.

Their are plenty of vocal female role models out there who say that they are good at what they do and the fact that they're a woman helps that, or boosts it in someway, makes it better than it would normally be.

There are very few male role models, outside of competitive sports, who claim the same thing. In fact, if they were to do so they would undoubtedly be jumped on by the feminists and called sexist.
 

VivaciousDeimos

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Evidencebased said:
John Marcone said:
People are not against feminism in gaming. They are against feminists full stop.
Because femnazis dont understand the difference between humour and a attack against women.
Duke Nukem goes from this obvious self parody and gets turned into this evil propaganda game thats designed to make men treat women like property.
Besides, games are cheaper than your girlfriend. What is wrong with stating a fact?
Oh and white males are the core audience so it would be stupid to not make games with them in mind.
Besides, women get their panties in a twist over damn near every female character that is hotter than they will ever be. How many times you heard a dude ***** because the male protagonist is a walking slab of muscle instead of a glasses wearing, unkempt, cheeto covered, fat bastard?In short. Males have to deal with bullshit in games too. We just whine less.
And isn't it interesting that the guys who complain about feminists always seem to follow that up with phrases like "feminazis" and "women get their panties in a twist over damn near every female character that is hotter than they will ever be" and then call women whiners? So making a comment about a game is basically genocidal and vain, huh? Almost makes you think that the mythical eeeevil feminists they've apparently had accuse them of misogyny had a point...)
You noticed that too, huh? Glad I wasn't the only one. Though I do have to acknowledge conflictofinteresets point--
conflictofinterests said:
I've seen a few posts in blogs by women who insist that men are an inferior gender, that all heterosexual sex is rape, etc. They don't tend to be gamers, though.
--I've seen a few of these types myself, one in particular comes to mind regarding Firefly. But the problem is that people begin to associate all feminists with the extremists. And the truth is that there's all different types of feminists: first wave, second wave, and...modern(?), I think, who all have different views on what it means to be a feminist. I'm not familiar enough with any of them to say which category I'd adhere to--my philosophy has basically been, that, while I acknowledge that there are differences between the genders, one isn't necessarily better than the other. And when the extremist feminists, what people are referring to when they say "feminazi's" I think, start pushing the idea that men are inferior, that's when I have a problem. Especially the idea that all hetero sex is rape; that denies the woman any agency in her actions which seems pretty counterproductive to the idea of equality.
 

DudeistBelieve

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I'm against any institution/idealism claiming it exists for equal rights, but desires/protects superior rights they have over their perceived betters. Plus the feminism stance against transexuals, flippin hypocrites.

But generally speaking, I'd like more bad ass female characters. Hell my cannon-run on Mass Effect is with Female Sheppard.
 

Carlston

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Maybe cause people who just accept whom and whatever anymore, get sick when they listen to the flapping of lips from a person who is a genuine jackass of their own personality try and drag things into a label battle.

The Little boys dominated gaming world. So you just ruined your own points by saying all men are immature and only gamers are male. As well like the work place will there be whining 40 years down the road women gameers hit a glass ceiling and games must have laws made to promote female advancement and protection from insulting fps screamers?

Then you have the argument "Well then there are guys when a girl talks he calls her a ***** says she's stupid ect ect." And therefore another generalized sexist comment. Because if you could see past your own gender you'd probably figure out most nonsocial gamers treat everyone like that, like shit yes, from years of Internet anonymity and just flapping his gums at his buddies. Maybe the female in question is treated like he treats his male friends, like shit. Cause he's a douche bag.

The double standard is fairly old and worn out, and sorry kids. I seen to many overly competitive FEMALES with the same mouth, the same gender slurs and the same lack of respect for anything or anyone as much as men as they phase into the gaming world.

But we pretend women are victims and have be held down, and are more civilized (which of course is just a sexist statement against men)

But after playing HALO in a gaming room on a military base and hearing how the female marines act... yeah even worse than the guys are and ten times as vulgar. This is just another hey look at me help help I'm being repressed whine. Because ladies... if you can't take the trash talk, it's not personal, or what's between your legs why the prepub xbox screamer is getting at. It's trolling to tick you off, and hope you make mistakes. Which is now the rules of the internet and they aren't changing for you.

Get equal...cause your not getting treated special anymore. Even more so in the video game world.
 

Thaluikhain

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John Marcone said:
The battle has been won, women are treated fairly these days. All that are left are the scavengers trying to pick clean every last crevice while declaring themselves feminists. Trying to claim some tiny little victory so they can inflate their own egos and all they are doing is insulting the women who came before them who actually struggled and fought to get where we are today.
You honestly believe that our current society does not put women at any disadvantage at all?

SaneAmongInsane said:
Plus the feminism stance against transexuals, flippin hypocrites.
"The" stance against transexuals? There's hardly one set in stone attitude towards transexuals (or much else) that all, or even the majority, of feminists follow.
 

Sparrow

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Really? I mean... really?

You need to play some BioWare games. Women freaking outclass men as the badasses.
 

conflictofinterests

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Carlston said:
Maybe cause people who just accept whom and whatever anymore, get sick when they listen to the flapping of lips from a person who is a genuine jackass of their own personality try and drag things into a label battle.

The Little boys dominated gaming world. So you just ruined your own points by saying all men are immature and only gamers are male. As well like the work place will there be whining 40 years down the road women gameers hit a glass ceiling and games must have laws made to promote female advancement and protection from insulting fps screamers?

Then you have the argument "Well then there are guys when a girl talks he calls her a ***** says she's stupid ect ect." And therefore another generalized sexist comment. Because if you could see past your own gender you'd probably figure out most nonsocial gamers treat everyone like that, like shit yes, from years of Internet anonymity and just flapping his gums at his buddies. Maybe the female in question is treated like he treats his male friends, like shit. Cause he's a douche bag.

The double standard is fairly old and worn out, and sorry kids. I seen to many overly competitive FEMALES with the same mouth, the same gender slurs and the same lack of respect for anything or anyone as much as men as they phase into the gaming world.

But we pretend women are victims and have be held down, and are more civilized (which of course is just a sexist statement against men)

But after playing HALO in a gaming room on a military base and hearing how the female marines act... yeah even worse than the guys are and ten times as vulgar. This is just another hey look at me help help I'm being repressed whine. Because ladies... if you can't take the trash talk, it's not personal, or what's between your legs why the prepub xbox screamer is getting at. It's trolling to tick you off, and hope you make mistakes. Which is now the rules of the internet and they aren't changing for you.

Get equal...cause your not getting treated special anymore. Even more so in the video game world.
Meh. Do they talk about their male friends having sex with them? Because I hear a big complaint from women on some games is that they get constantly propositioned. Maybe I'm just hearing things, though. I really don't play games with a primarily douche bag gamer base.
 

YawningAngel

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The games industry is not at fault here: the reason they make games that objectify women is because people buy them, and ultimately, there's nothing particularly wrong with that. Part of having a truly free and open society is having the freedom to hold (though not necessarily act on) views that many others find distasteful or reprehensible, and you can't fault the games industry for selling people what they want to buy. The problem is not that you have a games industry that produces games which, I agree, does sometimes portray women in an unfair light: the problem is that you have people who go out and buy these games. In a capitalist society such as ours, the blame rests with the consumer, not the producer.
 

Evidencebased

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draconiansundae said:
Glademaster said:
Seriously there are plenty of decent and good female characters out there in games and I don't see why a vocal minority should even come into play here. Anyway I just don't like feminism as it tend to want to create a matriarchal society instead of patriarchal which is just as wrong. Although there are proper feminists they aren't vocal about it and don't go around screaming it. Same reason why I don't call myself a Hardcore gamer even though by the proper terminology of the word I would be probably be considered one.
There's a huge difference between seeking a equality versus seeking dominance. It's the minority of obnoxiously vocal "feminists" that think women are better than men that give the rest of us a bad rap and have turned the very term "feminism" into dirty word.
I don't think the very very few radical "feminists" who say that women are superior to men are the reason feminism has such a bad rap. You can find an extreme example of any group or philosophy (especially out on the internet) -- just because you can dig up a blog by a white person saying we should shoot all the foreigners or an article by a so-called "men's rights" activist telling everyone to rape all the women, that doesn't mean all white people are racists or all men are misogynists.

The vast majority of feminists (including many men) are only trying to achieve equality between men and women, not any kind of hierarchy. But because feminism has been so successful in pushing for more equality (getting women the right to vote, the right to employment -- although still not equal pay, etc.) there's been a lot of backlash by the few men (and women) who genuinely hate the idea of equality. It's easy for misogynists like Rush Limbaugh to coin phrases like "feminazi" and then pretend like the couple of "feminists" who want female dominance represent the entire movement -- and it's catchy, so people keep repeating the phrase and repeating the stereotype even though it's got nothing to do with reality.

It's the people who know perfectly well what feminism is about, and who still hate it, who try to smear the idea of "feminism" and pretend it's entirely "feminazis." And then they tell people that feminism is going to ruin everything -- like gaming, for example. All the moral panics about sex in games? That's Fox News and "concerned parents" -- your average feminist doesn't have a problem with a little sex, yanno. Feminism should be a welcome addition to gaming; lots of the best, most imaginative plots and well-rounded characters already make use of a lot of feminist ideas. Feminists aren't saying "oh, you should never have cool male characters!" so much as saying "hey, can we have a female version of that, too? Or a main female character in a different game?" Like I said earlier, feminists want to push gaming to be more mature and more interesting (and maybe sexier!) so we should all be natural allies. It shouldn't be a dirty word... and yet those 1 or 2 blogs always get dragged up like they are a legitimate argument, and someone always has to mention "feminazis" as if they are a real concern. Forget about that; that's Limbaugh bullshit. Feminists just want cool games with decent characters like everyone else.
 

Rayne870

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John Marcone said:
People are not against feminism in gaming. They are against feminists full stop.
Because femnazis dont understand the difference between humour and a attack against women.
Duke Nukem goes from this obvious self parody and gets turned into this evil propaganda game thats designed to make men treat women like property.
Besides, games are cheaper than your girlfriend. What is wrong with stating a fact?

Oh and white males are the core audience so it would be stupid to not make games with them in mind.
Besides, women get their panties in a twist over damn near every female character that is hotter than they will ever be. How many times you heard a dude ***** because the male protagonist is a walking slab of muscle instead of a glasses wearing, unkempt, cheeto covered, fat bastard?

In short. Males have to deal with bullshit in games too. We just whine less.
Next thread: Why are people being smart and rational about things when I want to say the community is against feminism?
 

Merkavar

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i still dont get why that gamestation ad was sexist. the only complaints i have heard are from people twisting the words around abit to make it sexist.

Put your hand up if your girl friend costs more money than a new game. everyone with a girlfriend should be putting their hand up. 1 game say 100$ = 10 hours of fun 10 hours of movies =150$ minimum. so game = cheaper than girlfriend

Also it was one ad aimed at males. people dont get up in arms when there are ads aimed at women. so many ads i see are much more sexist than that game ad. Like pretty much any ad for baby products. they seem to make it out that men know nothing about babies etc. ending with tag lines like mums understand or something.
 

Carlston

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SaneAmongInsane said:
I'm against any institution/idealism claiming it exists for equal rights, but desires/protects superior rights they have over their perceived betters. Plus the feminism stance against transexuals, flippin hypocrites.

But generally speaking, I'd like more bad ass female characters. Hell my cannon-run on Mass Effect is with Female Sheppard.
I'd like to see more real and believable characters. If anything when the movies introduced believable strong women, two stand out like Sarah Connor T2, and Ripley from Aliens.

The casting normally shoots itself in the foot, even if done by a woman to grab a toothpick armed cheerleader and call them strong with a eye rollingly stupid reason. IE Buffy, Dark Angels, or whatever other Pouty lipped super woman who's chest is more in the casting even though they don't look like they could lift a 10 pound rifle let alone a 30 pound M-60 with belt of ammo.

Other than sadly short when they introduced Hammer I think was her name in Fable 3, THAT'S a belieable ass whupper whom looks like she can throw a entire ox cart at you with the Ox still attached. Yet it shies away from REAL equality. If a strong woman is sexy then why do all the sticks in the movie industry get scared when something happens to make a 200-300 pound woman -strong-. The stick models get afraid that the current trend of beauty and what's sexy might change and they aren't it. Why are women casters and game developers so afraid of a main female character who isn't a supermodel?

They got the power...they got the pull. Oh right... the modern society hates not pretty people. Why every male character has a six pack and rippling muscles and no body mass. And to make a muscle massed female is to scary to make cause people not like it...

Well, make it anyway. Someone will like it. But then again, muscle mass is not the only way to make a woman strong either...
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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People want attention, and crying because something "offended" them or made them feel "sad" is a great way of getting it from bleeding hearts. Yes there can be extremists who actively do/say things to make a (gender/race/stereotype) feel bad. As a high school "nerd" I was subject to a lot of flak from "peers" about my intelligence. I didn't whine or complain, I stood up to the ones who actively threatened me and ignored the ones who were pretty harmless douche-bags.
Now, the game industry does have a predilection toward white-male protagonists with hulkish muscles, and I agree thats a stereotype that needs to be changed simply so I don't feel like I'm not taking enough steroids... Seriously tho, women can be just as awesome as men at anything in video games. But as far as the whole gender wars issue, it will never clear up. Some men will be assholes about women (and women will STILL date them), and some women will continue crying about how unfair life is to them even though they can still tell "men are so dumb" jokes at work without fear of a real sexual harassment charge.
 

DrStupid87

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I'm not bothered by it. But considering game developers have more male than female staff, it's inevitable that it appears to many as a mans world. If however, an all female studio was established, I'd love to see what they did to level the playing field. (Pun apology here)
 

Carlston

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conflictofinterests said:
Carlston said:
Maybe cause people who just accept whom and whatever anymore, get sick when they listen to the flapping of lips from a person who is a genuine jackass of their own personality try and drag things into a label battle.

The Little boys dominated gaming world. So you just ruined your own points by saying all men are immature and only gamers are male. As well like the work place will there be whining 40 years down the road women gameers hit a glass ceiling and games must have laws made to promote female advancement and protection from insulting fps screamers?

Then you have the argument "Well then there are guys when a girl talks he calls her a ***** says she's stupid ect ect." And therefore another generalized sexist comment. Because if you could see past your own gender you'd probably figure out most nonsocial gamers treat everyone like that, like shit yes, from years of Internet anonymity and just flapping his gums at his buddies. Maybe the female in question is treated like he treats his male friends, like shit. Cause he's a douche bag.

The double standard is fairly old and worn out, and sorry kids. I seen to many overly competitive FEMALES with the same mouth, the same gender slurs and the same lack of respect for anything or anyone as much as men as they phase into the gaming world.

But we pretend women are victims and have be held down, and are more civilized (which of course is just a sexist statement against men)

But after playing HALO in a gaming room on a military base and hearing how the female marines act... yeah even worse than the guys are and ten times as vulgar. This is just another hey look at me help help I'm being repressed whine. Because ladies... if you can't take the trash talk, it's not personal, or what's between your legs why the prepub xbox screamer is getting at. It's trolling to tick you off, and hope you make mistakes. Which is now the rules of the internet and they aren't changing for you.

Get equal...cause your not getting treated special anymore. Even more so in the video game world.
Meh. Do they talk about their male friends having sex with them? Because I hear a big complaint from women on some games is that they get constantly propositioned. Maybe I'm just hearing things, though. I really don't play games with a primarily douche bag gamer base.
The female Marines? Oh yeah... they talk about clenching and what fluids are feeling like what enough to make some of the more squeamish Navy guys bail on a match.

And I hear my share of women on games being just as big and offensive as anything the guys can throw. It's really very amusing.
 

Wharrgarble

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"Gears of War; Lasts longer than your boyfriend."

"Call of Duty; Dumber than your husband."

See? If those signs were hanging in a video game store, you can bet some men would be complaining about it. Sure, others would laugh, but if you're offended by it at all then guess what, the "Cheaper than your girlfriend!" sign is no better.

Sexism is wrong no matter who it is against, men or women. It does not make it okay, funny, or otherwise forgivable just because it's not focused on your sex.

In short though, it boils down to not wanting to go the extra mile to develop a female character if they don't have to. Why waste the energy and resources when she's intended to be there for eye candy purposes only? That's what women get pissed off about, not that we suddenly want all games to star females.
 

solemnwar

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Sep 19, 2010
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The only problem I have in feminism in ANYTHING is if it's handled badly. Basically, anything that ends up as "feminazi".

It's why I dislike so much of our "ZOMG AWESOME" Canadian literature... specifically Margeret Atwood.

And I'm a girl. Lulz.